Is America burning? (Black Lives Matter protests, civil unrest and riots 2020)

[editor]

Related to my last post and unions tbh. BLM are active over here but obviously not as much as in America so not sure how the funding will be spread. Be great to see BLM involved with unions as they have the momentum for change with them right now.

And what does his nationality have to do with any of that?

 

[two sheds]

"Do we know how much of that funding will get to (for example) the UK?" would perhaps have been a fair question.

You know, not a loaded one.

 

[Anju]

He doesn't need to. He just funds the orgs that are already aligned with his interests. What do you imagine his interests are as a billionaire?

I would say to maintain the status quo but if I look at what he funds I can't see the connection. How was funding scholarships for black South African students in 1979 in his interests or funding black votes matter today in his interests. It's not like he needs the publicity and he definitely doesn't need any more hatred directed his way, which this latest announcement will undoubtedly bring.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

I would say to maintain the status quo but if I look at what he funds I can't see the connection. How was funding scholarships for black South African students in 1979 in his interests or funding black votes matter today in his interests. It's not like he needs the publicity and he definitely doesn't need any more hatred directed his way, which this latest announcement will undoubtedly bring.

He's a survivor of the Holocaust. I'm sure the hate directed at him is just background noise by now, especially when you have that much money to shield yourself from harm.

 

[Anju]

He's a survivor of the Holocaust. I'm sure the hate directed at him is just background noise by now, especially when you have that much money to shield yourself from harm..

Not sure going through trauma toughens people up or that money protects you racist abuse.

 

[Ax^]

Related to my last post and unions tbh. BLM are active over here but obviously not as much as in America so not sure how the funding will be spread. Be great to see BLM involved with unions as they have the momentum for change with them right now.

that some impressive back peddling and attempt at deflecting the question

 

[Pickman's model]

I would say to maintain the status quo but if I look at what he funds I can't see the connection. How was funding scholarships for black South African students in 1979 in his interests or funding black votes matter today in his interests. It's not like he needs the publicity and he definitely doesn't need any more hatred directed his way, which this latest announcement will undoubtedly bring.

you're getting confused between what he is interested in (his interests) and things that further his aims (his interests). i am not surprised by this, i just point it out.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Not sure going through trauma toughens people up or that money protects you racist abuse.

Perhaps, but you have to admit that he must be pretty tough to survive all of that and still have enough hope to fund scholarships, even if it does further his own agenda.

 

[Anju]

you're getting confused between what he is interested in (his interests) and things that further his aims (his interests). i am not surprised by this, i just point it out.

No, I'm saying I don't see how funding anti racist groups furthers his aims/interests, which is what other posters are saying. I'm not claiming it's his hobby just that I can't see how it benefits him.

 

[Anju]

Perhaps, but you have to admit that he must be pretty tough to survive all of that and still have enough hope to fund scholarships, even if it does further his own agenda.

Definitely tough but not immune.

 

[Pickman's model]

No, I'm saying I don't see how funding anti racist groups furthers his aims/interests, which is what other posters are saying. I'm not claiming it's his hobby just that I can't see how it benefits him.

there are none so blind as those that will not see

 

[NoXion]

No, I'm saying I don't see how funding anti racist groups furthers his aims/interests, which is what other posters are saying. I'm not claiming it's his hobby just that I can't see how it benefits him.

Not all anti-racist organisations are equivalent. As a billionaire, he will want to promote those anti-racist orgs least likely to draw attention to the connection between racism and capitalism.

 

[phillm]

ooohhh scary antifa communist terrorists oohhh....didn't Trump say his dad killed Kennedy?

 

[Anju]

there are none so blind as those that will not see

You need a new interest interest.

 

[Pickman's model]

You need a new interest interest.

i have loads of interests. keeping you amused is not one of them.

 

[Pickman's model]

No, I'm saying I don't see how funding anti racist groups furthers his aims/interests, which is what other posters are saying. I'm not claiming it's his hobby just that I can't see how it benefits him.

that's because you refuse to engage brain. if a rich capitalist invests in black south africans going to university, those bsa will at some point be involved in building the new south africa after apartheid. and which rich capitalist will they aid?

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Not all anti-racist organisations are equivalent. As a billionaire, he will want to promote those anti-racist orgs least likely to draw attention to the connection between racism and capitalism.

I think some of his agenda is cleaning up his legacy. What do people remember Andrew Carnegie for? Not the rapacious way he did business or screwed over his workers. They remember him for building libraries and other educational projects.

 

[Anju]

[

Can see ho

that's because you refuse to engage brain. if a rich capitalist invests in black south africans going to university, those bsa will at some point be involved in building the new south africa after apartheid. and which rich capitalist will they aid?

Do you really believe that? Soros is a hedge fund manager. He doesn't need to do that to make money.

 

[Pickman's model]

[

Can see ho

Do you really believe that? Soros is a hedge fund manager. He doesn't need to do that to make money.

there's needing to make more money and wanting to make more money. and no one gets to be as rich as soros without wanting to make more money. i might be wrong about his motivation. but someone who might play the long game will know that as in rhodesia sooner or later change would come to south africa. and it often pays to be on the right side of history.

 

[Anju]

Not all anti-racist organisations are equivalent. As a billionaire, he will want to promote those anti-racist orgs least likely to draw attention to the connection between racism and capitalism.

Can see how that could influence the makeup of the movement but both the organisations mentioned are providers of grants to smaller grassroots groups. The scale of funding would be impossible to funnel in a specific direction, especially as decisions are made at local level. Also the timescale of the grants doesn't offer much in the way of control.

I'm not cheerleading for billionaire philanthropists but I do think this money is going to be beneficial to BLM.

 

[NoXion]

Can see how that could influence the makeup of the movement but both the organisations mentioned are providers of grants to smaller grassroots groups. The scale of funding would be impossible to funnel in a specific direction, especially as decisions are made at local level. Also the timescale of the grants doesn't offer much in the way of control.

I'm not cheerleading for billionaire philanthropists but I do think this money is going to be beneficial to BLM.

Nah. Money is control. Accepting billionaire money means accepting billionaire control.

 

[Anju]

there's needing to make more money and wanting to make more money. and no one gets to be as rich as soros without wanting to make more money. i might be wrong about his motivation. but someone who might play the long game will know that as in rhodesia sooner or later change would come to south africa. and it often pays to be on the right side of history.

Seems excessively complicated.

This is the the Executive director of his foundation in SA. Why not a banker or ex politician, business executive. As mentioned in another post I'm not offering uncritical support for rich philanthropists. I just think this money will help BLM.

"OSF-SA's Executive Director is Fatima Hassan who is a human rights lawyer and social justice activist. Before joining OSF-SA she was a lawyer for the Aids Law Project where she frequently represented the Treatment Action Campaign. She also clerked at the Constitutional Court of South Africa for Justice Kate O'Regan and later served as Special Advisor in the Health and Public Enterprises Ministries under Barbara Hogan"

 

[Pickman's model]

Seems excessively complicated.

This is the the Executive director of his foundation in SA. Why not a banker or ex politician, business executive. As mentioned in another post I'm not offering uncritical support for rich philanthropists. I just think this money will help BLM.

"OSF-SA's Executive Director is Fatima Hassan who is a human rights lawyer and social justice activist. Before joining OSF-SA she was a lawyer for the Aids Law Project where she frequently represented the Treatment Action Campaign. She also clerked at the Constitutional Court of South Africa for Justice Kate O'Regan and later served as Special Advisor in the Health and Public Enterprises Ministries under Barbara Hogan"

how many black bankers or business executives do you think there were in south africa in 1979?

 

[Anju]

Nah. Money is control. Accepting billionaire money means accepting billionaire control.

I can't see the money being turned down so I suppose we'll see what happens over the next couple of years. I have a lot of faith in the people leading the way in the US at the moment. Money only offers control if the recipients give a fuck about money and I don't think they do in this case.

 

[Anju]

how many black bankers or business executives do you think there were in south africa in 1979?

I assume none but that wouldn't really affect her appointment as she's the current director and the foundation itself wasn't set up until the 90s.

 

[Pickman's model]

I assume none but that wouldn't really affect her appointment as she's the current director and the foundation itself wasn't set up until the 90s.

yeh. But you were on about students in 1979. You see I hope how you've shuffled the goal posts in your usual honest way.

 

[Anju]

yeh. But you were on about students in 1979. You see I hope how you've shuffled the goal posts in your usual honest way.

You were talking about the long game so I posted the details of the current executive director of Soros's foundation using words "this is" not this was or anything that might mean she was executive director in the past.

At least you've managed to come up with a new phrase. Shuffling goalposts.

 

[Marty1]

And what does his nationality have to do with any of that?

Just my train of thought at the time, and I had no idea he was an American citizen.

 

[Pickman's model]

You were talking about the long game so I posted the details of the current executive director of Soros's foundation using words "this is" not this was or anything that might mean she was executive director in the past.

At least you've managed to come up with a new phrase. Shuffling goalposts.

It's not a new phrase. And as for playing the long game what I had in mind was the length of time from 1979 to the end of apartheid.

 

[editor]

Just my train of thought at the time, and I had no idea he was an American citizen.

But you were simply too busy to spend one second checking?