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Is America burning? (Black Lives Matter protests, civil unrest and riots 2020)

Pickman's model said:
except that they're doing it all under direction.
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Curious as to what you mean, do you think police all over the country have instructions to basically hurt people who are out at the demonstrations as much as possible regardless of whether they’re violating any law or curfew etc but not to kill them? Or do you mean under direction in a more vague sort of way.
 
bimble said:
do you think police all over the country have instructions to basically hurt people who are out at the demonstrations as much as possible regardless of whether they’re violating any law or curfew etc but not to kill them?
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yeah of course
instruction and training
 
Idk. I think there’s got to be a big human factor as well, obvs not all of them are acting the same way.
Also the known presence within the police there of a good number of proper nazis is probably playing its part amongst those who are first to shoot and beat people up in this context.
theintercept.com

The FBI Has Quietly Investigated White Supremacist Infiltration of Law Enforcement

Bureau policies have been crafted to take into account the active presence of domestic extremists in U.S. law enforcement.
theintercept.com theintercept.com
 
bimble said:
Idk. I think there’s got to be a big human factor as well, obvs not all of them are acting the same way.
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it happens all the time bimble, theyve been told, at particular times, in certain places, crack a few skulls, try not to kill anyone
there was footage from NYPD this week i remember where it was one of the police chiefs (dont know the technical name) who was running out in the lead taking swings
happens in the UK too, ive seen it against the most fluffy nonviolent demos, order goes up to go in hard, blood gets spilled

this is exactly what the protests are about!
 
bimble said:
Curious as to what you mean, do you think police all over the country have instructions to basically hurt people who are out at the demonstrations as much as possible regardless of whether they’re violating any law or curfew etc but not to kill them? Or do you mean under direction in a more vague sort of way.
Click to expand...
Yeah. They follow orders or they wouldn't be in the job. That might be explicit or it may just be that they've been given nod - and clearly their bosses ain't stopping it.
 
bimble said:
Curious as to what you mean, do you think police all over the country have instructions to basically hurt people who are out at the demonstrations as much as possible regardless of whether they’re violating any law or curfew etc but not to kill them? Or do you mean under direction in a more vague sort of way.
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i don't know how to answer your post. you seem wilfully unable to understand a point i have made several times in the course of this thread, that the police are not 'out of control' but are subject to a functioning command and control structure which directs their general actions, as in the videos editor posted of them attacking the camera crew where you see lines of police on foot in formation, behind which appear a line of mounted police: and in unison all the foot police charge forwards. that doesn't happen just because the same thought occurs to all of them simultaneously. they are being directed by commanders to move in certain ways, and if we had access to the briefings they had received formally and any informal conversations they'd had, we'd know more about how e.g. journalists appear consistently targeted.

i haven't said or suggested anything about cops having instructions to hurt but not kill. i haven't said or suggested anything vague. i have maintained one consistent point, which is that the police are acting under orders. i don't doubt there are more zealous officers and less zealous ones. there are cops who appear utterly at ease with being filmed behaving in the most atrocious ways, while in formation, while under the eyes, presumably, of their immediate superiors. again, this suggests that they are relaxed because they are being directed, told what to do, perhaps how to do it.

in this country you see time and time again cops on demos using their batons deliberately to strike heads. this is allegedly against what they're told to do in training. it is officially banned. but i have never once seen sergeants remonstrate with their officers about this. i have never heard of any cop being reprimanded for acting in this dangerous way. as here, so doubtless in the united states: few if any cops will be disciplined or charged for their behaviour against protesters. and if they are then very very few cops will face any charges. i don't suppose cops have been instructed in advance of deployment to hurt people who are at demonstrations. but when you send out riot cops you don't have to tell them to behave in certain ways, as it is implicit in the situation. i hope, but am not wholly confident, that that clears things up for you.
 
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YouSir said:
Remember reading how border cops were liasing with and organising the mad militias when they went immigrant hunting. Zero surprise in other branches following suit. No doubt the Trump administration has channels to them too.
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Can’t find it now, annoyingly, but there was a good article from years ago talking about the scale of this problem. Since then they’d have risen up the ranks presumably and it will not have gotten any better.
 
This may be useful for some, if not, nothing lost:

The US protests: Lessons from Syria

The Syrian revolution was characterized by its diversity. It contained men and women from all of Syria’s different localities and ethnic and religious groups united around the aims of freedom, democracy, and social justice. Undoubtedly it also contained diverse political currents, as beyond these immediate aims no political program for the future of Syria was articulated; it was assumed that would be worked out through an electoral process. Whilst the movement certainly contained many contradictory elements, extremist Islamists did not have a visible presence initially, despite propaganda to that effect by the state and its supporters. Extremist Islamism grew over the years in response to the violent chaos wrought by the state, following the trajectory of the peaceful protest movement towards armed struggle. Free Syrians then had to battle on two fronts; against both the Assad regime and extremist Islamist elements which tried to hijack the movement.

By contrast, in the US, far-right elements are visible on the streets from the outset, trying to capitalize on and hijack the protests for their own ends. Their presence is not a reason to reject the whole movement. Progressives should stand in solidarity with progressive elements and communities most impacted by state violence. Through solidarity, we give strength to those who reflect the values and ideals we hold, and support them to grow and effectively challenge their opponents.
 
bimble said:
Curious as to what you mean, do you think police all over the country have instructions to basically hurt people who are out at the demonstrations as much as possible regardless of whether they’re violating any law or curfew etc but not to kill them? Or do you mean under direction in a more vague sort of way.
Click to expand...
Violence and force runs through police training like town names through seaside rock - though much of it is couched in neutral language.

See this standard manual:


It does not say ‘Right lads, get stuck in and hammer the crap out of them, then fabricate your notes afterwards’. But it uses language to normalise forceful behaviour, it rationalises violence at all stages of an interaction, it amplifies perceived risk faced whilst minimising actual harm delivered.

Then consider the nature of practical training - typically of younger recruits in groups or cohorts, with instruction delivered by older mentors, with drills and formations to emphasise the need for conformity and uniformity. ‘Compliance techniques’. ‘Defensive tactics’. ‘Primary control skills’. These labels amount to psychological free passes - they give reasonable, positive, non-violent names to often unreasonable, negative, violent actions. But then it is harder to put a weapon in the average person's hand, point to some random nearby, and order them to “Maim that guy.” “Maim him?! WTF? Why?” Human instinct draws us back from that.

But condition a person with training, emphasise their own goodness, and their belonging to a group which identifies as good, nurture a strong group identity and encourage them to identify more with those inside the group than anything outside of it, and mitigate uncomfortable feelings around violence and force by downgrading their perception of what violence and force are [when committed by you or your fellow ‘good group’ members], by literally renaming acts of violence, by building muscle memory for violent acts, by developing bland, generic language for describing violent acts, and by building resentment for questioning or critical or non-deferential behaviours in those outside of the ‘good group’, then, shit, you've changed the game.
 
Conservative militia/oathkeeper types claim they're against government tyranny, so how have they reacted to the sights of widespread police violence and Trump's threats of sending in the army?
 
Doodler said:
Conservative militia/oathkeeper types claim they're against government tyranny, so how have they reacted to the sights of widespread police violence and Trump's threats of sending in the army?
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the boogaloos are trying that on.
 
interesting take on things

but aye people do share knowledge on here

its worth reading :)


but also you own research helps
 
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