Is America burning? (Black Lives Matter protests, civil unrest and riots 2020)

[Pickman's model]

Thanks, so edgy

You show you're just a puffed up bladder

 

[VfromtheG]

Thanks for the textbook response. It’s almost like you copy and pasted it, yet you accuse me of being in a bubble. It’s pure projection mate.

This is the cultlike dynamic at play. You have your script, and you have your filter through which to see the world. It all looks so simple to you, and so you rinse and repeat.

And as an aside, I don’t have a Facebook and I don’t use social media. U75 is my only social media.

You sound like a lot of alt-right I have been arguing with recently . Referring to the civil rights movement as either a communist conspiracy or a laughable fad.

 

[Orang Utan]

This Will Never Work

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

You sound like a lot of alt-right I have been arguing with recently . Referring to the civil rights movement as either a communist conspiracy or a laughable fad.

I didn’t refer to the civil rights movement as communist, and you know that full well. You, however, referred to Antifa as part of the civil rights movement, which is laughable.

 

[kabbes]

This is the cultlike dynamic at play. You have your script, and you have your filter through which to see the world. It all looks so simple to you, and so you rinse and repeat.

You have to see the world pretty bloody simplistically to think that hundreds of days of rioting occur just because people like a bit of the old bashing of stuff. You have to be wilfully blind to think that it can happen as a result of a small handful of bad eggs. You have to be very determined to hold on to a narrow way of thinking in order to not consider that such activity might be precipitated by desperation and rage at a system that is determined to misrecognise and dehumanise entire categories of people.

 

[existentialist]

I’m referring to krtek a houby calling TomUS a “collaborator” for daring to object when his city is destroyed. It’s repulsive to say that about someone.

He might not intentionally be a collaborator, with his slavish adherence to the "anyone protesting is a mindless thug" line peddled by his government, but he is definitely not part of the solution to the problem.

 

[VfromtheG]

Yet. .. you've bought that Antifa propaganda as well! Your almost there! Has Trump seemed appealing to you recently?

 

[8ball]

He might not intentionally be a collaborator, with his slavish adherence to the "anyone protesting is a mindless thug" line peddled by his government, but he is definitely not part of the solution to the problem.

That bit is definitely echo chamber script peddling (too).

 

[existentialist]

I didn’t refer to the civil rights movement as communist, and you know that full well. You, however, referred to Antifa as part of the civil rights movement, which is laughable.

I can't think of a better place to position anti-fascism than within the civil rights movement, given that almost the very definition of fascism is depriving certain parts of the citizenry of any rights.

 

[existentialist]

That bit is definitely echo chamber script peddling (too).

Damn. I knew I should stop reading those memos.

ETA: given how stratospherically politically naive I am by comparison to many here, any resemblance of my comments to any kind of echo chamber is, as they say, purely coincidental

 

[petee]

Tom US seems mostly concerned with property damage which in and of itself speaks to a large part of his priorities.

that bit is not misplaced. the cars e.g. that get smashed up are how FWs get to work and feed mouths and pay the rent.

the problem is in the "BLM are actually commies" type of thing. b/c 1: the poster (Tom or this ItWillNeverWork person) is substituting his voice for others' and arrogating to himself the right to assert that there is subterfuge afoot; and 2: it's being suggested that commies are baaaaad. well if it takes commies to bring attention to racialist policies then good on the commies.

i mean, this is antique stuff, "civil rights proponents are actually commies." jesus fucking christ in a handbasket.

 

[8ball]

I can't think of a better place to position anti-fascism than within the civil rights movement, given that almost the very definition of fascism is depriving certain parts of the citizenry of any rights.

This is rather like situating the Anti-Nowhere League within the satellite navigation industry.

 

[NoXion]

It’s really not though. Political violence simply isn’t something that washes with the public, and certainly not with me. Maybe I’m just getting old.

Let's just have a reminder about what that "violence" largely constituted.




On the other hand, federal officers were not just throwing their weight around at peaceful protestors, but also operating snatch squads in Portland:




Given the above demonstration of clear state violence and intimidation against concerned members of the public, versus some of them engaging largely in graffiti and property damage, are you really surprised that people are throwing terms like "collaborator" around?

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

I can't think of a better place to position anti-fascism than within the civil rights movement, given that almost the very definition of fascism is depriving certain parts of the citizenry of any rights.

But here is the equivocation on the term anti-fascist though. Antifa are not just anti fascist. If that’s all they were then that would be great. But they are also pro communist and pro violence. They are totalitarians in waiting.

 

[existentialist]

But here is the equivocation on the term anti-fascist though. Antifa are not just anti fascist. If that’s all they were then that would be great. But they are also pro communist and pro violence. They are totalitarians in waiting.

Oh, labels...

This must be why I'm politically naive. I keep thinking that actual things are more important than the labels we attach to them.

 

[8ball]

But here is the equivocation on the term anti-fascist though. Antifa are not just anti fascist. If that’s all they were then that would be great. But they are also pro communist and pro violence. They are totalitarians in waiting.

They are largely anarchist or anti-authoritarian. The term “communist” can be a little misleading here. Though there are certainly communists involved.

 

[killer b]

But here is the equivocation on the term anti-fascist though. Antifa are not just anti fascist. If that’s all they were then that would be great. But they are also pro communist and pro violence. They are totalitarians in waiting.

The local Antifa seem to be mostly focused on antifascism, and put out a statement in February distancing themselves from the riots.

Are you thinking of some other organisation?

 

[8ball]

Oh, labels...

This must be why I'm politically naive. I keep thinking that actual things are more important than the labels we attach to them.

This is bannable talk, surely.

 

[hitmouse]

For what it's worth, I would tend to agree with you that, insofar as "antifa" is a useful term, it tends to encompass anti-capitalist political positions rather than purely and simply a reaction to the far right. I think one point where we begin to differ is in our assessment of their importance. How many antifa would you say are resident in Minneapolis? How many antifa lived in the suburbs of St Louis in 2014? What's the total number of antifa active in Baltimore?

Oh, and on the TomUS question, if you've been following this thread you'll know that there have been several of us questioning whether "collaborator" is a helpful piece of language to use there, I still think it's simpler and clearer to just call him a cunt.

 

[NoXion]

But here is the equivocation on the term anti-fascist though. Antifa are not just anti fascist. If that’s all they were then that would be great. But they are also pro communist and pro violence. They are totalitarians in waiting.

I think you've got antifa confused with tankies.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

They are largely anarchist or anti-authoritarian. The term “communist” can be a little misleading here. Though there are certainly communists involved.

Maybe so, but if they were ever to be successful In overthrowing the current system, the genuine anarchists involved will be purged by the authoritarians amongst them.

 

[butchersapron]

But here is the equivocation on the term anti-fascist though. Antifa are not just anti fascist. If that’s all they were then that would be great. But they are also pro communist and pro violence. They are totalitarians in waiting.

You enjoyed Andy Ngo's book then?

 

[8ball]

Damn. I knew I should stop reading those memos.

ETA: given how stratospherically politically naive I am by comparison to many here, any resemblance of my comments to any kind of echo chamber is, as they say, purely coincidental

Think you misread - I meant the term “mindless thug” is straight out of the authoritarian style guide.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

For what it's worth, I would tend to agree with you that, insofar as "antifa" is a useful term, it tends to encompass anti-capitalist political positions rather than purely and simply a reaction to the far right. I think one point where we begin to differ is in our assessment of their importance. How many antifa would you say are resident in Minneapolis? How many antifa lived in the suburbs of St Louis in 2014? What's the total number of antifa active in Baltimore?

Oh, and on the TomUS question, if you've been following this thread you'll know that there have been several of us questioning whether "collaborator" is a helpful piece of language to use there, I still think it's simpler and clearer to just call him a cunt.

Well I certainly hope your right that Antifa are of minimal importance in the whole dynamic. I just wish more clear water would be placed between those that are genuine in their desire to improve society and those that are out to destroy it.

 

[8ball]

Maybe so, but if they were ever to be successful In overthrowing the current system, the genuine anarchists involved will be purged by the authoritarians amongst them.

I’m not sure the organisation is composed in such a way that that would really work.

 

[killer b]

You enjoyed Andy Ngo's book then?

IWNW is a banjo player. I knew it.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

You enjoyed Andy Ngo's book then?

I haven’t read it. I’d buy it if it was going half price though.

 

[NoXion]

Well I certainly hope your right that Antifa are of minimal importance in the whole dynamic. I just wish more clear water would be placed between those that are genuine in their desire to improve society and those that are out to destroy it.

Who's out to destroy society?

 

[killer b]

I haven’t read it. I’d buy it if it was going half price though.

sounds like you've got the gist of it already tbf.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

The local Antifa seem to be mostly focused on antifascism, and put out a statement in February distancing themselves from the riots.

Are you thinking of some other organisation?

I do find that reassuring, and am glad that they made that statement. I haven’t seen that before.

As for what organisation I’m referring to, I guess it would be the same people Rose City Antifa are distancing themselves from in that statement. Who they are specifically though? I don’t know as I’m not in Portland.