International repression of Palestine solidarity

[hitmouse]

A bit late starting this, but thought it might be worth having a thread specifically to talk about the way Palestine solidarity stuff gets repressed in different countries - Germany being the most glaring example, but I'm sure there must be plenty of others.
A few links to start the thread off:

Zinaida Miller | Talk of Genocide

At a congressional hearing on 5 December, Elise Stefanik, a Republican congresswoman, asked Claudine Gay, the president...

www.lrb.co.uk

Pankaj Mishra · Memory Failure: Germany’s commitment to Israel

As völkisch-authoritarian racism surges at home, the German authorities risk failing in their responsibility to the...

www.lrb.co.uk

What’s Up With Germany’s Pro-Israel ‘Left’? | Novara Media

Germany's anti-Deutsch used to be 'fringe weirdos'. Now their pro-Israel ideology has gone mainstream.

novaramedia.com

 

[petee]

Republicans Float Idea of Expelling Rashida Tlaib From Congress Entirely

Some Republican lawmakers want the Michigan representative completely out of Congress.

newrepublic.com

they got it on the 2nd try

Congress punished Rep. Rashida Tlaib. It sent a chilling message to Palestinian Americans.

The censure of Tlaib reverberated among a minority community that feels ignored, and confirmed their worst fears — that their opinions are not important and their lives do not matter.

19thnews.org

 

[Knotted]

I thought this was a really good article on the situation in Germany.

Why is Germany so viciously anti-Palestinian?

German support for Israel is used as a cover to ramp up anti-immigration policies and downplay homegrown anti-Semitism.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[mojo pixy]

I think a lot of this, especially in Europe, boils down to islamophobia. We've had decades, centuries actually, of Islam being treated as a cultural enemy of European civilization - the Enemy Without, so to speak. There's never really been a big event of moment where this has had to be reconsidered - indeed even still, Islam is demonized by both Right (as foreign devils threatening Us with their religion and culture which is so opposed to Ours - the 'classic' islamophobia dating back to the crusades and The Song of Roland etc) and Left (as a reactionary patriarchy oppressive towards women and homosexuals etc, with Daesh and the Taliban - and Hamas - held up by both as examples of what Islam is really like.)

Over the same centuries in contrast, Jews have been treated as The Enemy Within, and the nazi holocaust was a flowering of that. Because of guilt over that long history - and in Germany especially because of those nazi events - as well as a sense that Jews are basically Europeans whereas Muslims definitely aren't; and because of the long-standing view of Islam as a threat to christendom and European culture, generalised support for Israel is pretty widespread across Europe.

It's early, so this might not be my best thoughts expressed best, but I'm not sure that support for Israel (and dismissal / minimising of Palestine) across Europe can be a big surprise, given how much guilt there is over the Holocaust and centuries of anti-semitism, and how much Islam and Muslims are and always have been othered.

I think Israel will have to do some really incredibly brutal stuff, to permanently blot its copybook among Europeans. That so many of us still support Israel despite what we're seeing now, is testament to how deeply embedded are the ideas I'm trying to illustrate.

 

[hitmouse]

Yeah, that Pankaj Mishra article is really good on how this plays out in Germany:

In Subcontractors of Guilt: Holocaust Memory and Muslim Belonging in Postwar Germany, Esra Özyürek describes the way that German politicians, officials and journalists, now that the far right is in the ascendant, have been cranking up the old mechanism of sanitising Germany by demonising Muslims. In December 2022, German police foiled a coup attempt by Reichsbürger, an extremist group with more than twenty thousand members, which was planning an assault on the Bundestag. Alternative für Deutschland, which has neo-Nazi affiliations, has become the country’s second most popular party, partly in response to economic mismanagement by the coalition led by Olaf Scholz. Yet despite the undisguised antisemitism of even mainstream politicians such as Hubert Aiwanger, the deputy minister-president of Bavaria, ‘white Christian-background Germans’ see themselves ‘as having reached their destination of redemption and re-democratisation’, according to Özyürek. The ‘general German social problem of antisemitism’ is projected onto a minority of Arab immigrants, who are then further stigmatised as ‘the most unrepentant antisemites’ in need of ‘additional education and disciplining’...

In a more unnerving illustration of the postwar German-Israeli symbiosis, the German health minister, Karl Lauterbach, approvingly retweeted a video in which Douglas Murray, a mouthpiece of the English far right, claims that the Nazis were more decent than Hamas. ‘Watch and listen,’ retweeted Karin Prien, deputy chair of the Christian Democratic Union and education minister for Schleswig-Holstein. ‘This is great,’ Jan Fleischhauer, a former contributing editor at Der Spiegel, wrote. ‘Really great,’ echoed Veronika Grimm, a member of the German Council of Economic Experts.

 

[mojo pixy]

Yes, we aren't antisemitic (any more) - but they are (hefty emphasis on the they)

 

[hitmouse]

Listened to this interesting and wide-ranging interview with the Lebanese-Palestinian activist/writer/thinker Joey Ayoub, and he mentioned some stuff that I'd not thought about before but I suppose makes sense in terms of how impressively bad Germany is on this stuff - as much as I hate to give the US or UK any credit, both countries have relatively large Jewish populations (still tiny, but larger than some places), which then means that there's more room for a less monolithic Jewish community and the chance for people like Jewish Voice for Peace or Naamod to have some visibility, but in a country like Germany where the genocide of the Jewish population was so complete, it's easier to not think about having to listen to actual Jews who might have messy or varying perspectives, and just leave the job of representing Jewish interests up to whichever gentiles are most bloodthirsty about wanting to kill Palestinians.
Sort of an obvious point once you think about it, but I suppose it is true that in a country with a much smaller Jewish population, you will have less of a Jewish Palestine solidarity movement and so it's that much simpler to demonise the whole thing as antisemitic.

 

[Cloo]

I came across a Jewish American woman railing about how many city councils in the Bay Area were putting out 'terrifying', 'rage filled' ordinances and asked her what these were. She wouldn't elaborate but just pointed me to document attached. Now I take it she means ceasefire ordinances - the only one I've looked up so far, Oakland, called for a ceasefire but also denounced antisemitism. I just do not get Jewish people finding these things 'antisemitic'

Anyway, attached document starts with 'From the river to the sea' as an example of problematic slogans and yes, I agree, it is rooted in an idea of (probably violent) dissolution of Israel. Next it says 'Free Palestine. Wtf? It tries to wave away 'Israel is an apartheid state' by saying 'Well it can't be because there are non Jewish citizens who have the vote in Israel'. Yes, the phrase makes me uncomfortable as a Jew.... and it should.

But the real icing on the cake is saying you can't say Israel's response is 'disproportionate'. Literally the mildest censure one can possibly apply to the situation. That there's no mid way between 'doing nothing' and a mass-death barrage of bombing and creating a situation where people with starve and doe is disease?

So basically it's saying all criticism of Israel's response is antisemitism.

 

[nino_savatte]

I think a lot of this, especially in Europe, boils down to islamophobia. We've had decades, centuries actually, of Islam being treated as a cultural enemy of European civilization - the Enemy Without, so to speak. There's never really been a big event of moment where this has had to be reconsidered - indeed even still, Islam is demonized by both Right (as foreign devils threatening Us with their religion and culture which is so opposed to Ours - the 'classic' islamophobia dating back to the crusades and The Song of Roland etc) and Left (as a reactionary patriarchy oppressive towards women and homosexuals etc, with Daesh and the Taliban - and Hamas - held up by both as examples of what Islam is really like.)

Over the same centuries in contrast, Jews have been treated as The Enemy Within, and the nazi holocaust was a flowering of that. Because of guilt over that long history - and in Germany especially because of those nazi events - as well as a sense that Jews are basically Europeans whereas Muslims definitely aren't; and because of the long-standing view of Islam as a threat to christendom and European culture, generalised support for Israel is pretty widespread across Europe.

It's early, so this might not be my best thoughts expressed best, but I'm not sure that support for Israel (and dismissal / minimising of Palestine) across Europe can be a big surprise, given how much guilt there is over the Holocaust and centuries of anti-semitism, and how much Islam and Muslims are and always have been othered.

I think Israel will have to do some really incredibly brutal stuff, to permanently blot its copybook among Europeans. That so many of us still support Israel despite what we're seeing now, is testament to how deeply embedded are the ideas I'm trying to illustrate.

Indeed, and the antisemitism witch hunters and Israel advocacy groups like BICOM have joined with neocons and Islamophobes. The other day, I'd noticed that BICOM's head honcho, Alan Johnson, had retweeted the execrable Douglas 'Skidmark' Murray.

 

[hitmouse]

Indeed, and the antisemitism witch hunters and Israel advocacy groups like BICOM have joined with neocons and Islamophobes. The other day, I'd noticed that BICOM's head honcho, Alan Johnson, had retweeted the execrable Douglas 'Skidmark' Murray.

Douglas "the nazis were relatively decent compared to Hamas" Murray. A deeply weird spiral where you can now get a column in the Jewish Chronicle to write about how the SS and concentration camp guards weren't all that bad, as long as you're doing so in the cause of attacking Palestininans.

Anyway, a week or two old now, but just happened to see this pop up:

 

[nino_savatte]

Douglas "the nazis were relatively decent compared to Hamas" Murray. A deeply weird spiral where you can now get a column in the Jewish Chronicle to write about how the SS and concentration camp guards weren't all that bad, as long as you're doing so in the cause of attacking Palestininans.

Anyway, a week or two old now, but just happened to see this pop up:
View attachment 408570

Yet, the usual suspects are eerily silent. Not a peep from the CAA, CST, BoD or even David Hirsh.

 

[hitmouse]

Probably been discussed over in the mega-thread a bit, but here's an article on the ridiculousness of the Berlin mayor and German minister for culture issuing statements saying that they were only clapping for an Israeli director and not their Palestinian co-director:

The German State Claps Only for Israelis

Berlin’s film festival ended with an award for a movie on the West Bank and an Instagram hack damning Israel’s war. German cultural figures rushed to distance themselves from pro-Palestinian statements, in a craven display of conformism to state power.

jacobin.com

 

[Dogsauce]

Germany had a sizeable Turkish community, as well as more recent refugees from the Middle East. Are their voices not heard, do they not offer solidarity to Palestinians? Is it just on a political level that unqualified support for Israel is voiced (kind of like here really) or are the wider public on board with such nonsense?

 

[Lurdan]

Another interesting essay by Pankaj Mishra in the LRB
The Shoah after Gaza (archived)

It was given as a lecture for the LRB at a church in Clerkenwell [video here] after the Barbican cancelled the booking.

 

[ska invita]

It's early, so this might not be my best thoughts expressed best, but I'm not sure that support for Israel (and dismissal / minimising of Palestine) across Europe can be a big surprise, given how much guilt there is over the Holocaust and centuries of anti-semitism, and how much Islam and Muslims are and always have been othered.

When you say "European support for Israel do you mean" state or public? What kind of support and from who?

There is some European state support for Israel mainly based on the slipstream of US support, which is predicated on it being a military proxy state in the region. That isnt universal though (see Ireland, Spain and others not tied to the US's apron). Germany is its own bizarre case

Public "support for Israel" is questionable, polls I've seen call for immediate ceasefire by large majorities and for a long time now

Agree though that Islamophobia runs very deep across Europe, that is undeniable.

 

[hitmouse]

Germany had a sizeable Turkish community, as well as more recent refugees from the Middle East. Are their voices not heard, do they not offer solidarity to Palestinians? Is it just on a political level that unqualified support for Israel is voiced (kind of like here really) or are the wider public on board with such nonsense?

Others can probably answer this better, but I think it's kind of mixed - I'd expect that support for Israel/Zionism across the political spectrum is probably higher than it is here and left Zionism is definitely more of a thing there, but there definitely is a Palestine solidarity movement in Germany as well, it's just one that faces levels of repression that makes the likes of Sunak, Starmer and Braverman look positively cuddly and welcoming.

 

[mojo pixy]

Public "support for Israel" is questionable, polls I've seen call for immediate ceasefire by large majorities and for a long time now

Agree though that Islamophobia runs very deep across Europe, that is undeniable.

This may be true, but I don't think there's any contradiction between broadly supporting Israel's existence as a the jewish state, and calling for a ceasefire. The current situation is no good for Israel, anyone who wants that country to have a decent future should be calling for the brutality to end. I think most europeans (even spaniards) don't want to see Israel gone, I think they just want to see it behaving itself and doing right by palestinians. A ceasefire at least would be a step in the right direction.

 

[ska invita]

This may be true, but I don't think there's any contradiction between broadly supporting Israel's existence as a the jewish state, and calling for a ceasefire. The current situation is no good for Israel, anyone who wants that country to have a decent future should be calling for the brutality to end. I think most europeans (even spaniards) don't want to see Israel gone, I think they just want to see it behaving itself and doing right by palestinians. A ceasefire at least would be a step in the right direction.

Ah if you mean "european support for israel" as meaning "israel has a right to exist" then yes of course thats very high, globally id imagine...however much a mistake anyone thinks the way the project to create a jewish state within palestine has been very few people think it should now be wiped off the face of the earth....even amongst palestinians the two state solution had serious traction....

a ceasefire for me btw is not a step in the right direction, its just a ceasefire

 

[mojo pixy]

a ceasefire for me btw is not a step in the right direction, its just a ceasefire

Well, it'd be a step away from war and death at least.

 

[ska invita]

Well, it'd be a step away from war and death at least.

barely even that

 

[mojo pixy]

Oh well why bother with it then?

It would be a step in the right direction you mardy sod.

 

[hitmouse]

Germany's doing a great job of fighting against antisemitism:

German state bank freezes account of Jewish peace activist group

Berliner Sparkasse Bank demanded that Jewish Voice for Just Peace in the Middle East disclose list of members, including addresses

www.middleeasteye.net

Germany Is Seizing Jews’ Money Again | Novara Media

On Tuesday, a German Jewish group had its account frozen after the bank demanded a list of its members’ details, in what experts believe is a clear breach of EU law. James Jackson reports from Berlin.

novaramedia.com

On Tuesday, Jüdische Stimme gerechten Frieden in Nahost (Jewish Voice for a Just Peace in the Middle East) received a letter from its bank, Berliner Sparkasse (Berlin Savings Bank), stating that “according to regulatory provisions, we … are obliged to check the data stored about our customers at regular intervals and to update if necessary”.

The bank demanded a list of the names of all of the members of Jüdische Stimme and their addresses, signed by members of the board by April 5 before adding that they were freezing the account immediately “as a precautionary measure.”

Multiple legal experts who spoke to Novara Media believe that the request for members’ data is unlawful in at least two ways: a breach of their contract with the bank, to which they had not consented to give this information, and EU privacy law, specifically general data protection regulation (GDPR).

In a statement on X/Twitter, Jüdische Stimme described the bank’s request as “more like a question that might be asked by an intelligence service or the police, who have been politically persecuting us as a Jewish organisation for some time.” Their lawyer Ahmed Abad put it more bluntly: “We believe that this is for the use of the police.”

Independent lawyer Nadija Samour said that this was an unusual request not usually required by the bank, and was “beyond legal.”

 

[krtek a houby]

Ilan Pappe questioned by US agents

I was detained at a US airport and asked about Israel and Gaza for 2 hours. Why? | Ilan Pappé

Border agents asked whether I believe Israel is committing genocide and what I think of popular protest slogans shortly after I landed in Detroit

www.theguardian.com

Pappe asks :

Why are ostensibly liberal and democratic countries so interested in profiling or restricting academics who are trying to share our professionally informed views about Israel and Gaza with the North American and European public?

 

[hitmouse]

Bit old now, from mid-April, but some more news on how the fight against antisemitism is going in Germany:

Germany’s Anti-Palestine Crackdown Has Reached ‘a New Low’ | Novara Media

German riot cops raided a pro-Palestine event and banned speakers from the country.

novaramedia.com

Udi Raz, an Israeli PhD student and activist from Jewish Voice (Jüdische Stimme für gerechten Frieden in Nahost), an anti-Zionist Jewish group in Germany, was sitting in the audience of the congress when the conference was raided. Raz told Novara Media that a police officer [was] pointing out her kippa, a Jewish hat with watermelon Palestinian solidarity colours, and laughing at it with their colleagues.

When Raz confronted the officer and accused them of antisemitism, she was subsequently arrested and told that this constitutes harassment in Germany.