If a person works 11:00-20:00 is that an eight hour or nine hour shift?

[AnnO'Neemus]

I started a job that was described in the job ad as 'usually' eight hour shifts.

To my mind, working an eight hour shift is usually something like 09:00-18:00 with an hour-long lunch break, although I appreciated the hours would be a bit different in a retail/hospitality setting.

But my job that claims to be 'usually' eight hour shifts involves working most days from 10:50-20:00 or 10:55-20:00 or 11:00-20:00 and fewer hours on Sunday, 11:45-18:00h.

So out of a five day week, I work four x nine-hour shifts with a 30 minute unpaid break, so 8.5 hours x 4 = 34 hours, plus 12:00-18:00 on Sundays. Although my original rota had me working from 10:50h on long days, and finishing at 17:30h on Sundays (although other staff are scheduled to finish at 18:00 on Sundays, and I'm the one locking up, half an hour before they ostensibly finish, till the owner rejigged it. The tweaking and adjusting of my rota so that it adds up to 40 hours, even though there's an expectation for me to go in earlier and set up, while also closing at the end of a long day, makes me uneasy and gives me bad vibes about piss-taking.) So my rota's tweaked to work out at 40 hours. But it's always more than 40 hours if you taking into account actual opening/setting up time and also closing late, eg if we struggle to get rid of customers who are drinking and having a good time. Because it sometimes goes over official finish time by the time customers have left and everything's cleared up. Eg finishing after 20:30 twice this week. So a nine and a half hour shift with a half-hour break is nine hours.

IABU to say that this isn't what I signed up for? I thought that sometimes I would be opening, sometimes I would be closing, and that there were would be leeway/wriggle room for me to do those late closures or whatever from time to time. But that's not the case.

Is my boss taking the piss and if so how do I deal with it?

 

[Puddy_Tat]

i take it this is some sort of pub / catering job?

not a line i've ever worked in, but gut feeling is that your paid hours should be the hours you're working, not just the hours the place is open to customers. i think there is some case law round this (it's late, i can't find a reference now) especially if the additional hours push you below legal minimum wage.

on the buses, drivers get x minutes at start of shift for checking their bus over, or getting from sign-on point to where the bus is, and at the end of the shift for parking the bus up or getting back to sign-on point (although remote sign on / off is becoming a thing) and paying in, and if you're late because of traffic or a breakdown or whatever, you get paid that overtime.

i don't know what's custom and practice in this line of work, i guess it's the sort of trade where a lot of people are temporary / part time / non union, which makes it easier for bosses to take the piss...

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Legally, they have to give you a break but don't have to pay you for it. So if you get an hour break it'd be an eight hour shift.

 

[cesare]

As soon as you work 6 continuous hours they are required to give you a 20 minute unpaid break as a minimum. Your contract should state anything over and above that.

So to answer your question it depends on your contract but the length of shift minimum is 9 hours less at least 20 minutes break.

More here: Rest breaks at work

Edit: don't work for free no matter what their expectations. Don't succumb to wage theft if possible.

 

[cesare]

Unfortunately because of your length of service your job security is precarious, I'm sure you know that. However Hospitality as an industry is going through a difficult time at the moment. They are also finding it hard to recruit and retain. So you might have more negotiating power over breaks at least - perhaps some paid breaks during your shift to make up for starting early/finishing late. It's a risk to ask but you never know . . .

 

[bcuster]

9

 

[Brainaddict]

Yeah, it's a nine hour shift. But not sure what you can do now about the fact that they lied to you. Probably their business model is dependent on that length of shift. But now you know you can't trust them to be honest.

An unpaid break is legal but dickish, so something employers only usually try on if they are in a position to piss off their employees and get new ones fairly easily. So as cesare says, work out how expendable you are, and maybe ask for paid breaks if you feel you are in a strong enough position. And an hour is the reasonable length break in that length day.

Oh, and they're shit employers, so maybe keep an eye out for other jobs.

 

[SpookyFrank]

I hate the unpaid breaks thing. It's not like that time is your own is it?

In teaching it's assumed that you work through your breaks even though they're not counted as 'directed time', just one of many bits of creative accounting to make it look like teaching only takes up 40 hours a week.

 

[moomoo]

If we work a 9 hour day we get 90 mins unpaid break which is bobbins really. I’d rather take half an hour and go home an hour earlier so that’s what I tend to do.

I think your boss is taking the piss.

 

[Thora]

11-8 with an unpaid 30 minute break is an 8.5 hour shift.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

An unpaid break is legal but dickish, so something employers only usually try on if they are in a position to piss off their employees and get new ones fairly easily.

Is this right? I don’t think I’ve ever had an official paid break including at my current heavily unionised workplace.

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

Legally, they have to give you a break but don't have to pay you for it. So if you get an hour break it'd be an eight hour shift.

Only get a 30 minute break. There isn't really anywhere to sit if it's raining and the few seats indoors are taken by customers.

Nipping to the bakery/coffee shop next door usually requires spending 10-15 minutes in a queue waiting to be serve then quickly woolfing down a sandwich or quiche.

Not really enough time to go anywhere else and sit down and relax in that 30 minute break.

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

11-8 with an unpaid 30 minute break is an 8.5 hour shift.

You wouldn't call that a nine hour shift with a half hour break? To my mind the start and finish times are nine hours apart.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Only get a 30 minute break. There isn't really anywhere to sit if it's raining and the few seats indoors are taken by customers.

Nipping to the bakery/coffee shop next door usually requires spending 10-15 minutes in a queue waiting to be serve then quickly woolfing down a sandwich or quiche.

Not really enough time to go anywhere else and sit down and relax in that 30 minute break.

So they’re asking you to work for 8.5 hours for 8 hours pay and aren’t providing facilities. I’m fairly certain the latter is illegal.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

So they’re asking you to work for 8.5 hours for 8 hours pay and aren’t providing facilities. I’m fairly certain the latter is illegal.

Yup, they have to provide a rest area.

Have the right workplace facilities - Overview - HSE

You must have the right workplace facilities for everyone in your workplace, including people with disabilities.

www.hse.gov.uk

 

[Thora]

You wouldn't call that a nine hour shift with a half hour break? To my mind the start and finish times are nine hours apart.

If your contracted hours are 37.5 a week (for example) that is 9-5 Monday to Friday with a 30 minute lunch break.

 

[InArduisFouette]

Is this right? I don’t think I’ve ever had an official paid break including at my current heavily unionised workplace.

in the NHS and in my experiences in the private sector '8 -10'hr shifts usually have 30 minutes unpaid and 20 minutes paid breakd and 12 hr / long days it's 2 *30 one paid , one unpaid

 

[Puddy_Tat]

i'm not sure i've had many jobs where lunch (or whatever) break is paid.

from vague memory, the civil service when i was there briefly c. 1988 the contract was something like 42 hours a week including lunch break, but custom and practice was you did 37 hours work a week (i can't remember the exact numbers), and if you wanted a shorter or longer break then that was ok.

any unpaid break ought to include either the ability to go off site and do your own thing (although if you're on an industrial estate in the middle of nowhere, that can be a bit theoretical) and / or access to somewhere you can sit down and eat without any expectation to do work stuff in that time.

 

[InArduisFouette]

i'm not sure i've had many jobs where lunch (or whatever) break is paid.

from vague memory, the civil service when i was there briefly c. 1988 the contract was something like 42 hours a week including lunch break, but custom and practice was you did 37 hours work a week (i can't remember the exact numbers), and if you wanted a shorter or longer break then that was ok.

any unpaid break ought to include either the ability to go off site and do your own thing (although if you're on an industrial estate in the middle of nowhere, that can be a bit theoretical) and / or access to somewhere you can sit down and eat without any expectation to do work stuff in that time.

it's exactly that - the unpaid break the time is your own completely and at least theoretically you can go off site etc ...

 

[bluescreen]

This is the laundry piss-taking company, right?
I'd be looking for another job. With better employers.
Hope you are somewhere vaguely cultural or scenic that's crying out for staff.
Good luck!

 

[likesfish]

I do a 9 hour shift 2 15 min paid breaks and hour unpaid for lunch

 

[Epona]

I do a 9 hour shift 2 15 min paid breaks and hour unpaid for lunch

This wasn't a thread asking what you worked, it was over 6 months ago and about what the OP was working back then and them asking for advice about it, I don't know why you've bumped it just to say "I have these breaks" - it's completely irrelevant and several months late

 

[sim667]

I started a job that was described in the job ad as 'usually' eight hour shifts.

To my mind, working an eight hour shift is usually something like 09:00-18:00 with an hour-long lunch break, although I appreciated the hours would be a bit different in a retail/hospitality setting.

But my job that claims to be 'usually' eight hour shifts involves working most days from 10:50-20:00 or 10:55-20:00 or 11:00-20:00 and fewer hours on Sunday, 11:45-18:00h.

So out of a five day week, I work four x nine-hour shifts with a 30 minute unpaid break, so 8.5 hours x 4 = 34 hours, plus 12:00-18:00 on Sundays. Although my original rota had me working from 10:50h on long days, and finishing at 17:30h on Sundays (although other staff are scheduled to finish at 18:00 on Sundays, and I'm the one locking up, half an hour before they ostensibly finish, till the owner rejigged it. The tweaking and adjusting of my rota so that it adds up to 40 hours, even though there's an expectation for me to go in earlier and set up, while also closing at the end of a long day, makes me uneasy and gives me bad vibes about piss-taking.) So my rota's tweaked to work out at 40 hours. But it's always more than 40 hours if you taking into account actual opening/setting up time and also closing late, eg if we struggle to get rid of customers who are drinking and having a good time. Because it sometimes goes over official finish time by the time customers have left and everything's cleared up. Eg finishing after 20:30 twice this week. So a nine and a half hour shift with a half-hour break is nine hours.

IABU to say that this isn't what I signed up for? I thought that sometimes I would be opening, sometimes I would be closing, and that there were would be leeway/wriggle room for me to do those late closures or whatever from time to time. But that's not the case.

Is my boss taking the piss and if so how do I deal with it?

I do 12 hours I.e. 0530-1730 with a 30 min unpaid break. So it’s counted as an 11.5 hour break. Legally if you’re working the amount of time you have to have a break which can be unpaid.

We also theoretically have two 15 min paid breaks, but there disturbable. I can’t remember the last time I had one.

 

[krtek a houby]

Capitalism sucks. We'd do 12, sometimes 14 hour days without breaks unless business was slack and have a doze on the chair.