Hundreds of Post Office workers ‘vindicated’ by High Court ruling over faulty Post Office IT system

[Spymaster]

There's some chatter in the legal world that the solicitors should repay the £60m fees that they were paid defending the Post Office.

Don't see why they should. They did the job that they were required to do.

 

[two sheds]

The whole thing also shows the atrocious state of the Discovery process. Defendants (and Plaintiffs) should see all the documents when it comes to court, and it looks like the Post Office is still withholding them.

I had it in one case I was involved with. The people I was up against withheld key documents which to me should be instant Contempt of Court but the judges don't seem all that bothered.

It's laughable, as is much of the British legal system. Allowing companies to run up huge lawyers fees which are then partially charged to the defendant (taxing) so bankrupting them so they're not allowed to appeal even if they win actually makes the judges culpable, as did the original judgements just accepting the word of the Post Office's 'expert witnesses'.

 

[two sheds]

Don't see why they should. They did the job that they were required to do.

No, at least one learned part way through that the Post Office was lying and he still went on with it. Should also be struck off for that.

 

[hash tag]

There's some chatter in the legal world that the solicitors should repay the £60m fees that they were paid defending the Post Office.

In the drama series the "speculative" solicitors acting on behalf of the sub postmasters won the case. Little cash appears to have been left over after all their fees had been deducted. I would have thought the side that lost the case Ie the post office should have been responsible for those fees?

 

[rubbershoes]

Don't see why they should. They did the job that they were required to do.

They were extremely aggressive in the way they went about it. Challenge every decision of the judge, appeal everything, and when they lose, claim the judge is biased and should step down. They used the financial muscle of the Post Office to try and outspend their opponents. They were absolute bastards

 

[hash tag]

They were extremely aggressive in the way they went about it. Challenge every decision of the judge, appeal everything, and when they lose, claim the judge is biased and should step down. They used the financial muscle of the Post Office to try and outspend their opponents. They were absolute bastards

Sadly, that's pretty much the way of the world. Similar cases of using money to bully people over legal decisions are builders appealing planning decisions. The councils don't have the money to fight them.

 

[two sheds]

Goodoh

Post Office under criminal investigation for potential fraud over Horizon scandal

Metropolitan police interview two people under caution over scandal that led to wrongful conviction of 700 post office operators

www.theguardian.com

Since the start of the broadcasting, 50 new potential victims have contacted lawyers, including five who wish to appeal against their convictions.

 

[wemakeyousoundb]

Goodoh

Post Office under criminal investigation for potential fraud over Horizon scandal

Metropolitan police interview two people under caution over scandal that led to wrongful conviction of 700 post office operators

www.theguardian.com

That's a start, I was hoping that a perverting the course of justice prosecutions might be in order but having a quick read on it getting people wrongfully convicted doesn't seem to fall under that umbrella :/
an obvious oversight in the law which would benefit powerful people/entities I guess, no surprise here.

 

[two sheds]

you'd think perjury might cover some of it

 

[wemakeyousoundb]

you'd think perjury might cover some of it

possibly investigated if they get prodded with a tazer or ten, not holding my breath unfortunately

 

[stdP]

Happy to see the dramatisation get the Toby Jones treatment (one of my favourite actors - Pip Torrens was a nice surprise as well) but, perhaps because I've been following it for quite a while now I felt it still left a lot on the table - the sheer amount of fuckery that needed to be involved in the brass for anything like this to come about transcends incompetence.

I have a feeble hope that the criminal investigations will result in at least some prosecutions for those in a position of power over this entire fiasco... but it's been dragged on long enough for memories to fade, evidence to have been destroyed, cover-up strategies nudged that I don't hold out much hope for the whole truth emerging. Although if Paula Vennells and a few others get struck by lightning I might have to have a major rethink of my belief systems.

 

[hash tag]

Another tragedy of this saga is that it took a drama on television to get many people to sit up and take notice and hopefully get things
moving even further. It is now been reported on most news bulletins. I heard this morning that another 50 or so sub postmasters have
come forward to stake a claim.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Goodoh

Post Office under criminal investigation for potential fraud over Horizon scandal

Metropolitan police interview two people under caution over scandal that led to wrongful conviction of 700 post office operators

www.theguardian.com

This was reported on both Sky & BBC news this morning as if the investigation is something new, but the article clearly says, 'the investigation was launched in January 2020 following a referral from the DPP', which was just after the High Court success in December 2019, which is in the OP, yet still no one has been charged, so I'll be surprised if it comes to anything.

The only new thing about it, is the fact that the Met has confirmed they are investigating doing as little as possible, for the first time.

 

[sleaterkinney]

I remember this from Computer Weekly back in the day, Shocking it’s still going on.

 

[Spymaster]

This was reported on both Sky & BBC news this morning as if the investigation is something new, but the article clearly says, 'the investigation was launched in January 2020 following a referral from the DPP', which was just after the High Court success in December 2019, which is in the OP, yet still no one has been charged, so I'll be surprised if it comes to anything.

Yeah, no one is getting done for this after 20 years. The best you can expect is that Venal and her ilk become corporate pariahs but they'll all be retiring shortly if they aren't already, so they'll get away with this.

Hopefully their consciences will have made their last couple of decades miserable and Venal will lose her gong.

Petition signed.

 

[alex_]

Yeah, no one is getting done for this after 20 years. The best you can expect is that Venal and her ilk become corporate pariahs but they'll all be retiring shortly if they aren't already, so they'll get away with this.

Hopefully their consciences will have made their last couple of decades miserable and Venal will lose her gong.

Petition signed.

Suspect you are correct, but they were still prosecuting people in 2015 - so people were making decisions about this in the last decade.

This is an example from 2011 of “not looking”
https://nitter.net/Carlier_J87/status/1743198877782560929#m

“ Finally, Ed Henry KC brought up Janet Skinner’s case. Janet had huge problems with the Horizon system at her North Bransholme branch in Hull. She had been reporting them to the Horizon helpline, making 116 calls in total, but was nevertheless suspended over an alleged £60,000 discrepancy and was prosecuted for theft.

Mr Henry pointed out that Janet’s successor at the same branch, Wendy Lyell, survived a few weeks before she too was arrested on suspicion of theft when the same Horizon system generated more discrepancies.

It transpires that one of Pardoe’s subordinates, Mick Matthews, was investigating Janet Skinner for the purposes of issuing a Proceeds of Crime Act Order against her when he clocked that Wendy Lyell had suffered discrepancies immediately after taking over from Janet. Matthews wrote in a financial investigation policy log that he sought to find out what had happened with regard to investigating Wendy Lyell’s case. He reported that on doing so he:

“received an email from Dave Pardoe, my new line manager, to the effect that no further resources were to be expended on the case in respect of Wendy Lyell.”

Matthews was concerned. “It occurred to me that in the interests of justice we could be rightly criticised for not carrying out a comprehensive investigation into Wendy Lyell. I spoke with and asked [Pardoe] to reconsider allocating resources in order for the matter to be further investigated."

Pardoe reportedly replied that he would not reconsider, allegedly adding: “… if we are criticised, so be it.”

No further investigation resource was allocated.

Yesterday, Pardoe told Henry that he didn’t recall this episode, nor was it consistent “within my leadership style.””

Alex

 

[Chilli.s]

The petition to remove Vennells CBE, had 3000 signatures until this program dropped. Now its 700,000. People just dont follow these types of storeys.

I wonder how her church feel about it all, I suppose with a god on her side she can have any dodgy moral views she wants.

 

[two sheds]

God has forgiven her.

 

[brogdale]

3/4 way through the drama and impressed, but I can't help feeling the production/casting team let the project down by allowing Zahawi to burnish his own reputation by playing himself.

 

[quiet guy]

God has forgiven her.

It's amazing what 3 Hail Mary's and 1 Our Father can get you.

 

[quiet guy]

Suspect you are correct, but they were still prosecuting people in 2015 - so people were making decisions about this in the last decade.

This is an example from 2011 of “not looking”
https://nitter.net/Carlier_J87/status/1743198877782560929#m

“ Finally, Ed Henry KC brought up Janet Skinner’s case. Janet had huge problems with the Horizon system at her North Bransholme branch in Hull. She had been reporting them to the Horizon helpline, making 116 calls in total, but was nevertheless suspended over an alleged £60,000 discrepancy and was prosecuted for theft.

Mr Henry pointed out that Janet’s successor at the same branch, Wendy Lyell, survived a few weeks before she too was arrested on suspicion of theft when the same Horizon system generated more discrepancies.

It transpires that one of Pardoe’s subordinates, Mick Matthews, was investigating Janet Skinner for the purposes of issuing a Proceeds of Crime Act Order against her when he clocked that Wendy Lyell had suffered discrepancies immediately after taking over from Janet. Matthews wrote in a financial investigation policy log that he sought to find out what had happened with regard to investigating Wendy Lyell’s case. He reported that on doing so he:

“received an email from Dave Pardoe, my new line manager, to the effect that no further resources were to be expended on the case in respect of Wendy Lyell.”

Matthews was concerned. “It occurred to me that in the interests of justice we could be rightly criticised for not carrying out a comprehensive investigation into Wendy Lyell. I spoke with and asked [Pardoe] to reconsider allocating resources in order for the matter to be further investigated."

Pardoe reportedly replied that he would not reconsider, allegedly adding: “… if we are criticised, so be it.”

No further investigation resource was allocated.

Yesterday, Pardoe told Henry that he didn’t recall this episode, nor was it consistent “within my leadership style.””

Alex

There's going to be an awful lot of POL internal auditors and Security Investigators who will be covering their arses and not remembering specific actions now that the plod are getting involved.

 

[two sheds]

They've just admitted there was a pilot project that also ended up in prosecutions.

Post Office suspected of more wrongful prosecutions of operators over Horizon

Exclusive: pilot scheme for the software believed to have resulted in prosecutions even before rollout in 1999

www.theguardian.com

Kevan Jones, the Labour MP who is a member of the Horizon compensation advisory board, said he was told by Post Office managers that the Horizon pilot scheme was rolled out to 300 branches in 1995.

“I have met one of the post office managers who was pursued by the Post Office after taking part in the pilot and then accused of mishandling money. There were protests that the system was faulty and the protests were ignored. They were obviously not a crook and should never have been prosecuted,” said Jones.

Jones said he believed there may be dozens more victims of the pilot scheme and said the Post Office should have disclosed the existence of the pilot years ago. “Amid the controversy and scandal over the Horizon system, no one from the Post Office thought to mention that they had this pilot scheme which also resulted in prosecutions.

“The question we have to ask is how many more have been prosecuted and how many more lives have been ruined. It’s what we have come to expect from the Post Office – they hide the truth and the sub postmasters take the blame.”

 

[SpookyFrank]

Suddenly the government is super keen to actually do something about this. You'd think they were only just hearing about it now ffs.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

You’d think there was an election on the horizon.

 

[brogdale]

Time for a tear-jerker TV mini series about the scandal of the state’s privatised disability welfare assessment system leading to wrongful impoverishment, homelessness, sanctioning and suicides.

 

[GarveyLives]

Suddenly the government is super keen to actually do something about this. You'd think they were only just hearing about it now ffs.

You’d think there was an election on the horizon.

One gets the impression that the "justice" he has pledged will be very similar to the "justice" that he has managed to deliver to the victims of the Grenfell Tower massacre and the victims of the 'Windrush scandal'.

 

[Chilli.s]

The contaminated blood scandal can be added to that list

 

[quiet guy]

As much as I loathe Jeremy Vine his opening comment on the radio today was very accurate. Paraphrasing abit " You've got to wonder where everyone has been regarding this. It's like there's been a recent TV programme about it."

 

[quiet guy]

The contaminated blood scandal can be added to that list

Yes that one has definitely been around for a long long time

 

[Chilli.s]

Yes that one has definitely been around for a long long time

I think about 1985

Theres a pattern, people die, less compo to pay out