Hundreds of Post Office workers ‘vindicated’ by High Court ruling over faulty Post Office IT system

[planetgeli]

And bump. Racism alive and well.

Post Office used racist term for Black people, documents show

Investigators in Horizon IT scandal were asked to group suspects by racial features, including ‘negroid types’

www.theguardian.com

Investigators were asked to group suspects based on racial features, the results of a freedom of information request found.


The document, which was published between 2008 and 2011, included the term “negroid types”, along with “Chinese/Japanese types” and “dark skinned European types”.

 

[two sheds]

This also made some good points - I meant to link to it at the time.

Hundreds of lives ruined. Not a single person held to account. And still: silence on the Post Office scandal | Marina Hyde

Horrific detail piles on horrific detail as the inquiry rumbles on, says Guardian columnist Marina Hyde

www.theguardian.com

Starts off with: "I can’t help suspecting that former Post Office chief executive Paula Vennells might have been more publicly vilified if she’d done a bad tweet, rather than merely presided over a firm during the most widespread miscarriage of justice in British history."

and

"The individual stories are horrific. People’s lives were ruined; at least four took their own lives. Many were imprisoned, including a teenager. Tech was trusted over humans with unblemished records. As things stand, more than a year into the belated inquiry, not a single person has been held to legal account, from Vennells to the managerial class of the Post Office to Fujitsu to the civil servants responsible for oversight. Instead, Vennells got a CBE, and the rest of the anonymous boss class doubtless joined her in failing upwards on the gravy train."

 

[Throbbing Angel]

FFS - where do you write to to get a CBE revoked!

 

[DaveCinzano]

FFS - where do you write to to get a CBE revoked!

HRH King Cumberland

 

[StakerOne]

I don't understand why they haven't received a whole load of compensation yet.

The whole thing is an absolute outrage.

 

[tim]

I don't understand why they haven't received a whole load of compensation yet.

The whole thing is an absolute outrage.

Ye, being "in line for compensation" decades after something happened isn't good enough. It won't be much use to those who are dead or getting too old to be able to use it for their enjoyment.

 

[Dystopiary]

Ffs the Guardian.

The headline of this article was amended on 27 May 2023 to make clear it was the Post Office that used the racist term, during its investigation into post office operators using the Horizon system; it was not used by the Post Office Horizon inquiry, which was set up to look into that investigation and its aftermath.

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

The BBC podcast about the Horizon scandal is very good. Each episode's around 15 minutes long. I listened to it on R4 when it was originally broadcast, between WatO and 14:00h news bulletin.

It's available on iPlayer if anyone's interested. Well-worth listening to. What the Post Office and the authorities did to those people is horrific.

BBC Radio 4 - The Great Post Office Trial

The extraordinary story of a campaign to uncover a massive scandal at the Post Office.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Ming]

If you have high blood pressure probably best not to watch these Post Office corporate scum dodging questions about their remuneration committee shenanigans. Darren Jones is a brilliant Labour MP. We need more like him.

 

[two sheds]

"errors were made"

So they got bonuses for fucking up peoples' lives.

Post Office boss apologises for inquiry bonus payments

Company wrongly paid executive bonuses for cooperation with inquiry into faulty computer system

www.theguardian.com

The company is being investigated by the government after the Post Office admitted it had wrongly paid thousands of pounds of bonuses to top executives simply for cooperating with an inquiry into the Post Office’s faulty Horizon computer system.

The IT system resulted in 700 postal workers being wrongly convicted of theft and false accounting between 2000 and 2014. The scandal led to some operators being sent to prison, and has been blamed for four suicides.

And they knew they were falsely accusing the postal workers.

 

[Ming]

"errors were made"

So they got bonuses for fucking up peoples' lives.

Post Office boss apologises for inquiry bonus payments

Company wrongly paid executive bonuses for cooperation with inquiry into faulty computer system

www.theguardian.com

And they knew they were falsely accusing the postal workers.

They all apologised, answered none of the questions posed and kept the money. Very clever. I can see why they hired them.

I think one of the 'metrics' discussed in the remuneration committee must have been 'are you a greedy,shameless, brass necked arsehole and in light of this can you put up with a do-gooder asking you difficult questions for an hour or so? No material consequences for yourself obviously.'.

 

[two sheds]

Just talking to a postie who said management haven't (supposedly temporarily) been replacing staff so they're under some extra pressure, and that they've closed at least one sub post office round here ... with four days notice. GPO expressing its regret in physical terms.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Just talking to a postie who said management haven't (supposedly temporarily) been replacing staff so they're under some extra pressure, and that they've closed at least one sub post office round here ... with four days notice. GPO expressing its regret in physical terms.

Post Office and Royal Mail are completely separate things.

Certainly since covid RM have not been replacing staff losses leading to huge pressures on those remaining. For example we no longer have capacity to cover for staff who are on a rest day, on annual leave or off sick. As a result I have just got back home after completing my walk, plus all the tracked items, heavy and large items, special deliveries, customer collections and box collections of another walk (turning what should be a 6 hour day into a 9 hour one).

Senior management at both the Post Office and Royal Mail have been demonstrably incompetent and greedy over a sustained period. Both have not just got away with it but been handsomely rewarded financially and in other ways.

Rant over and cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[two sheds]

Good points and ta for correction

Have said before but my postie is a star.

 

[two sheds]

Saw this a few days ago:

After 20 years, here’s why the Post Office scandal is special: the cover-up is happening in plain sight | Marina Hyde

People whose lives were destroyed deserve justice. And those responsible are contriving to make sure they don’t get it, says Guardian columnist Marina Hyde

www.theguardian.com

This seemed a good summary:

Box office-wise, despite its slow burn, the Post Office story has it all. It’s a tale of total corporate psychopathy, a mad Kafka-esque nightmare in which totally innocent subpostmasters, the very backbone of villages and communities, were turned into criminals to cover up the fact that the Post Office’s Horizon computer system didn’t work properly. Each was told by the Post Office that no one else had any problems with the system. Vast sums were effectively looted from them to make up accounting shortfalls, before they were prosecuted anyway. Distraught subpostmasters were imprisoned pregnant, or still in their teens, or on their young child’s birthday, or in their old age, or in high-security jails where they saw and suffered terrible things. At least 60 have died without seeing justice or compensation; at least four took their own lives. Countless victims were driven into physical and mental problems from which they have never recovered.

 

[two sheds]

Post Office: Horizon scandal victims to receive £600,000 compensation each

Workers whose wrongful convictions for theft and false accounting have been overturned to receive payment from government

www.theguardian.com

About fucking time - compensation from government.

The government said that the compensation offer is in addition to paying for all reasonable legal fees, and any post office operator who does not want to accept this offer can continue with the existing legal process.

I wonder whether any of the managers will be held responsible. No I don't wonder actually

 

[two sheds]

They really were heartless fuckers

Post Office knew legal case was likely to bankrupt Horizon IT victim, lawyer says

Inquiry into scandal told company wanted to use Lee Castleton’s case to dissuade others from pursuing claims

www.theguardian.com

Solicitor admitted that they wanted to make an example of him:

After the legal action, Castleton was forced to close his shop, sell his house and move into rented accommodation, while his wife suffered stress-induced seizures and his children had to move schools because of bullying.

Dilley was asked whether he bore any responsibility for what happened to Castleton. “I am satisfied I acted, and my firm acted, professionally, politely and appropriately at all times,” he said.

He didn't have enough money to use a solicitor so pleaded the case himself.

With it being the legal expenses that made Castleton bankrupt (as was the plan), it's hard to know whether all the questions were reported but I'd have asked of Dilley (Post Office lawyer) when he learned that the Post Office claims were completely fraudulent, how he responded when he learned of it (copy of an email or letter would do), and what he did when he learned of it. Or whether the lawers continued to run up the lawyers fees that the Post Office then charged to Castleton to bankrupt him. £321,000 in total.

However, Dilley said the Post Office tried to reach a settlement with Castleton multiple times but ultimately was forced to go to court because he made a £250,000 counterclaim.

“I think they were cognisant of personal impact on Castleton, they tried really, really hard to settle the case,” he said. “Once [Castleton] had issued the [counter] claim it had to either settle or go to trial. I do have one regret in the case, and that is that we were unable to settle it.”

So they were "unable to settle", but they still claimed the £321,000 legal fees that they'd run up plus of course the £25,000 they were suing him for that he didn't owe them in the first place.

 

[two sheds]

Post Office solicitor knew of IT flaw before criminal trial, inquiry hears

Rob Wilson was informed about discrepancy in 40 branches but did not disclose issue to defence.

www.lawgazette.co.uk

A senior Post Office solicitor was told about dozens of issues with the computer system just days before a pregnant sub-postmistress was convicted, the Post Office Inquiry heard this week.

Rob Wilson, former head of criminal prosecutions, received an email on 8 October 2010 stating that ‘discrepancies’ with the Horizon IT system had been detected at 40 branches. This bug had caused an apparent loss of £20,000 to show up on the system.

The email, labelled as of ‘high importance and confidential’ was sent by a member of the Post Office security team and was disclosed to the inquiry for the first time when Wilson gave evidence for a second time on Tuesday.

Wilson forwarded the email and its contents to two solicitor colleagues, Jarnail Singh and Juliet McFarlane, but did not disclose it to defence solicitors or defendants. All three solicitors have been reported to the Solicitors Regulation Authority, although any potential disciplinary proceedings against them have been put on hold at the request of the inquiry.

The trial of Seema Misra started three days after Wilson received and passed on the email outlining the discrepancies with the branch accounts. Despite arguing that Horizon had caused shortfalls in her branch account, she was found guilty of theft and sentenced
to 15 months’ imprisonment.

Giving evidence last week, former Post Office solicitor Singh said that a celebratory email sent to management after the Misra conviction was dictated to him by a ‘collection of people’ and approved by Wilson.

Wilson said he was not in the office on that day and did not authorise the sending of the email in any way.

Singh replied with a suggested quote which concluded: ‘It is to be hoped the case will set a marker to dissuade other defendants from jumping on the Horizon-bashing bandwagon’. Again he told the inquiry these words did not reflect how he felt about the case. The inquiry heard that the PR person rejected his suggested quote saying it was ‘too emotive for us to use’.

In a fuller summary he subsequently provided for the communications team, Singh wrote that the jury in the Misra case ‘was entitled to reject her evidence as absurd and to conclude that her belated attack on Horizon was nothing but a desperate distraction tactic’.

The 'celebratory email' is also a piece of work

 

[cupid_stunt]

ITV is showing a 4-part drama based on this shocking shit-show called 'Mr Bates vs The Post Office', followed by a documentary ''Mr Bates vs The Post Office - The Real Story', all parts already available on ITVX,

I've just watched part 1, it's very good, well worth watching.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Well, that was worth watching, absolutely gripping drama.

Meanwhile I found this report from 5 days ago, sadly I doubt any action will be taken.

Paul Marshall, a barrister who is representing post office operators in their continuing fight for compensation, said he believed that enough evidence had emerged for police to consider prosecuting former Post Office executives.

“On the face of it, the material is sufficient for the police to investigate whether, over a substantial period of time, the Post Office was engaged in perverting the course of justice or a conspiracy to pervert the courses of justice,” he told the Guardian.

“In my view, the Post Office was engaged in a sustained attack on the rule of law itself.”

Lawyers for the post office owner-managers reportedly want Sir Wyn Williams, chairman of the public inquiry into the scandal, to pass files to the director of public prosecutions once the inquiry is completed next year.

Janet Skinner, a branch operator who was wrongly jailed for nine months, told the Times that collating evidence that may form the basis for an investigation into former senior Post Office staff was a focus for her legal team.

During the course of the statutory inquiry, evidence has emerged indicating that Post Office investigators responsible for looking into allegations against branch operators did not believe that they had stolen anything.

Post Office Horizon inquiry: ‘enough evidence for police investigation’

Lawyers say enough evidence has emerged for police to consider prosecuting former Post Office executives

www.theguardian.com

 

[Chilli.s]

Great telly that ITV 'Mr Bates vs The Post Office' well worth it to see how the law doesnt really work and there are no consequences for management, in fact they are rewarded for their lack of morals

 

[two sheds]

Just watching it now - superb, I really hope it brings some consequences for the arseholes who went ahead with the prosecutions knowing full well that they weren't the "only ones" having problems and that the Horizon system was a pile of shite.

 

[Chz]

It's not just the Post Office. Fujitsu were Major League fuckwits for denying any problems the whole time as well. The tech rags actually picked up the story a long time before the main press did, because the notion of a "foolproof" IT system was so outlandish to anyone who knows better.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Think it’s about time we heard more from the leader of the Liberals about his role in this both as the Post Office Minister and then as a paid adviser to the law firm who represented the Post Office in the legal proceedings.

 

[two sheds]

"then as a paid adviser to the law firm who represented the Post Office in the legal proceedings."

 

[Smokeandsteam]

"then as a paid adviser to the law firm who represented the Post Office in the legal proceedings."

I believe that Davey was paid around £270,000 to act as an 'Advisor' to Herbert Smith Freehills (HSF). They were the law firm who represented the Post Office in their attempts to defeat the postmasters.

As I say, the useless pompous cunt has some questions to answer....

 

[tony.c]

I think it was quite likely that, besides subpostmasters, ordinary employees of Post Office Ltd, ie counter clerks on Post Office counters may have been accused of theft and sacked as a result of Horizon.
I remember all 12 employees at a North London post office, I think it was Wood Green, being sacked for alleged theft. The CWU did take it to an industrial tribunal and iirc they were eventually cleared and offered reinstatement at different pos, but by then they would probably have found other jobs.
Perhaps this is something an investigative journalist could look into.

 

[alex_]

It's not just the Post Office. Fujitsu were Major League fuckwits for denying any problems the whole time as well. The tech rags actually picked up the story a long time before the main press did, because the notion of a "foolproof" IT system was so outlandish to anyone who knows better.

It’s quite a jump from “supplier defending their product” to “let’s send the users to jail”.

The post office were the prosecuting body and should have been hugely more sceptical about their fundamental hypothesis which appears to be “we’ve done a huge IT systems change and now lots of our staff are stealing from us so we should send them to prison”

 

[Chz]

It’s quite a jump from “supplier defending their product” to “let’s send the users to jail”.

The post office were the prosecuting body and should have been hugely more sceptical about their fundamental hypothesis which appears to be “we’ve done a huge IT systems change and now lots of our staff are stealing from us so we should send them to prison”

Oh certainly, but Fujitsu knew the product was defective at the time and covered it up for as long as they could.
The almost unbelievable part is that once they did finally tell the PO the software was broken, the two of them decided that the best course of action was to then be partners in covering it up. The PO has a strange legal position in UK law due to being the PO, but what Fujitsu did was absolutely a criminal act and basically nothing ever came of it. I've never let their sales people in the door since 2008 or so when it finally leaked out; I tell them "we don't work with criminals" and show them the door.

ETA: It's 15 years later, and the anger I still manage to muster up over it is considerable.

 

[DotCommunist]

It's badness enough of its own right but I cant ignore the extra context of the trust and responsibility of postmaster, the sort of people who do the job and how it don't count for shit how upright or socially standing you are. You're still the little people. You'll still be hung out regardless like boxer on his way to the glue factory while cunts like ed davey roll onwards.