jimbarkanoodle
Well-Known Member
Ah that's ok then. I read it in the standard, high standard of journalism eh?
Huge proposed development around Lambeth town hall promises 'community space and feel good vibes'
- Thread starter editor
- Start date
Ah that's ok then. I read it in the standard, high standard of journalism eh?
jimbarkanoodle
Well-Known Member
they had a massive boombox thing on the front of it when it first re-opened as Electric, only lasted a couple of months though and they took it down again.
Probably Foxtons fault
CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
The town hall development was on at "cabinet" tonight.
The selected developer is " MUSE"
There was some argy bargy over how much affordable housing would be incorporated.
Lib Dem leader Ashley Lumsden implied it was only 20% - half the council's target.
Cllrs Lib Peck or Paul McGlone did not state that it was definitely 40%, but mocked Cllr Lumsden's affiliation to the co-alition government.
Cllr Rachel Heywood mentioned a consultation meeting in which Liz Obi had said that Olive Morris should be commemorated if the present Olive Morris House was redeveloped.
Cllr Lumsden claimed that he had a more cost effective alternative to the redevelopment proposal - but he did not elucidate, saying that he would present it at full council on 20th November.
The selected developer is " MUSE"
There was some argy bargy over how much affordable housing would be incorporated.
Lib Dem leader Ashley Lumsden implied it was only 20% - half the council's target.
Cllrs Lib Peck or Paul McGlone did not state that it was definitely 40%, but mocked Cllr Lumsden's affiliation to the co-alition government.
Cllr Rachel Heywood mentioned a consultation meeting in which Liz Obi had said that Olive Morris should be commemorated if the present Olive Morris House was redeveloped.
Cllr Lumsden claimed that he had a more cost effective alternative to the redevelopment proposal - but he did not elucidate, saying that he would present it at full council on 20th November.
cuppa tee
Well-Known Member
Looks like this is set to go ahead............ttp://www.cnplus.co.uk/news/contracts/muse-to-confirm-50m-lambeth-town-hall-redevelopment/8657543.article?blocktitle=Contracts&contentID=4111
editor
hiraethified
I've posted up a piece here:
http://www.brixtonbuzz.com/2014/01/muse-set-to-confirm-50m-lambeth-town-hall-redevelopment-scheme/
http://www.brixtonbuzz.com/2014/01/muse-set-to-confirm-50m-lambeth-town-hall-redevelopment-scheme/
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
I am rather concerned about the affordable housing element. Appears there are no cast iron guarantees that it will be 40%.
How is the Council going to stop a developer "partner" from using "feasibility" to reduce the affordable housing element later on? As Barratts did on the Brixton Square development.
On the "Social Housing" thread I put up the Lambeth Green Party press release. Post 82.
Lambeth Green Party dug out the last election manifesto of the Lambeth Labour. In this they promised all new developments would be 50% affordable.
2010 local election manifesto
Its on page 13.
How is the Council going to stop a developer "partner" from using "feasibility" to reduce the affordable housing element later on? As Barratts did on the Brixton Square development.
On the "Social Housing" thread I put up the Lambeth Green Party press release. Post 82.
Lambeth Green Party dug out the last election manifesto of the Lambeth Labour. In this they promised all new developments would be 50% affordable.
2010 local election manifesto
Its on page 13.
Last edited:
Tricky Skills
Well-Known Member
Pleased that I kept that manifesto both online and offline. It should come in handy over the coming months. I've got a hard copy of a 2010 election leaflet from my local Labour Cllrs promising "free swimming for every resident."
It's kept beside the door, waiting for the smiley Labour Doorstop thing
It's kept beside the door, waiting for the smiley Labour Doorstop thing
Last edited:
editor
hiraethified
Good work. I've just added it to the Brixton Buzz feature and now I'll start reminding Labour via Twitter.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Pleased that I kept that manifesto both online and offline. It should come in handy over the coming months. I've got a hard copy of a 2010 election leaflet from my local Labour Cllrs promising "free swimming for every resident."
It's kept beside the door, waiting for the smiley Labour Doorstop thing
I noticed the free swimming. What happened to that? Its not cheap swimming at the Rec anymore.
Tbf if you go there during the offpeak hours, are on certain benefits, and have got the right card*, you can swim for free. Under 16s can also swim there for free if they turn up by a certain time at the weekend.
Edited to add: *Real Plus
Last edited:
editor
hiraethified
Update on upcoming public consultations; Public consultations start for new £50m Lambeth Town Hall ‘Campus’
CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
I went to a stakeholders meeting yesterday about the MUSE development Your New Town Hall. The meeting was in a small room on the 5th floor of Brixton Rec.
There was a representative of MUSE/Morgan Sindall, the scheme architect, a couple of Lambeth regeneration people, a facilitator and a minute taker. We weren't given any notes or documentation - and introductions were very brief and informal.
There were only 5 members of the public there - 4 connected with the Brixton Society and one with Brixton Stop the War coalition.
Issues brought up were
1. why was the event not well advertised and attended [MUSE said they had done their best and spent out on advertising]
2. Olive Morris House. MUSE have decided that Olive Morris House is a defective building and is not cost effective to refurbish. They also say that it is necessary to use the Olive Morris House site to build residential flats in order to make the sums add up for the development as a whole.
Two members of the public were vehemently opposed to demolishing Olive Morris House, and suggested an independent survey should be done to ascertain the facts - the developer's view being clearly not impartial.
The people running the meeting did not take this on board at all. The demolition and replacement of Olive Morris House is clearly a key part of their scheme.
A member of the pubic produced a print-out showing that the Olive Morris House service centre costing £3.1 million had only been completed in 2008, and been short-listed for an architectural award.
The MUSE representative was adamant that OMH is a poor quality building even so.
3. Hambrook House: the MUSE representative playfully suggested she was perhaps being provocative by suggesting that there should be a 22 storey tower fronting onto Brixton Hill. However she said that their consultations with residents (and Porden Road residents seemed to have had a lot of recognition from MUSE and it's architect) led them to re-balance the scheme. Residents wanted a higher tower at the front on Brixton Hill and a lower residential block with less overshadowing behind it (between Porden Road and Arlington Lodge).
4. The architect spoke at length about his vision of the new town hall - particularly at the rear long the Buckner Road which is currently not really a public area. He saw this as suitable for a sculpture garden with trees and access into the Town Hall from the gardens. He was also keen to make a further access to the rear of the building along a glazed-roof walkway between the Registry Office area and the Electric building.
They were rather back-pedalling on the impression I had gained that the Town Hall was being turned over to business units and council functions transferred to the new building behind. It seems that the basement area of the town hall may be destined for hot-desking business start ups etc, but the council chamber and other functions will remain, as will the Assembly Hall.
5. The Pièce de résistance of the scheme is of course the new block situated on the site of Town Hall Parade and backing onto Buckner Road. We all felt the prooposed new service centre there was much too small compared to Olive Morris House - and in the new building the service centre is proposed to be surrounding an atrium, and is in turn surrounded by the social services offices (to be relocated from Phoenix House when their lease expires in 2018).
The justification for shrinking the Service Centre was that more and more council services are done online so personal visits to the council are not necessary (both MUSE and Lambeth representatives were quite sure of this).
My own view is that the scheme MIGHT be cost neutral to the council, or even beneficial, but it seems to me that it implies further job cuts down the line, as I can't see how all the functions of Olive Morris/Phoenix House/Wanless Road/Ivor House can fit in the new building.
Final thought - this was clearly more of a focus group than any democratic form of consultation. Mr Brixton Stop the War wanted a councillor to be present. Not sure I wanted that - but it does seem that Lambeth Labour party are very good these days at initiating stuff and then letting the officers and consultants get on with it.
This is not democracy - and there isn't much we can do about it now, with only 4 out of 63 Lambeth Councillor being non-Labour.
If anyone else wants to see the current proposals, or air their views there is another stakeholder meeting tomorrow (also in Brixton Rec).
http://sut1.co.uk/sLKK4pGtsLi5uruKj...ZNQlxaBxoeHRkYCAIGAgYCEwR-S19dGQ56SDA2KycjIDI.
The link enable you to register with Eventbrite. They didn't seem to be checking tickets though.
There was a representative of MUSE/Morgan Sindall, the scheme architect, a couple of Lambeth regeneration people, a facilitator and a minute taker. We weren't given any notes or documentation - and introductions were very brief and informal.
There were only 5 members of the public there - 4 connected with the Brixton Society and one with Brixton Stop the War coalition.
Issues brought up were
1. why was the event not well advertised and attended [MUSE said they had done their best and spent out on advertising]
2. Olive Morris House. MUSE have decided that Olive Morris House is a defective building and is not cost effective to refurbish. They also say that it is necessary to use the Olive Morris House site to build residential flats in order to make the sums add up for the development as a whole.
Two members of the public were vehemently opposed to demolishing Olive Morris House, and suggested an independent survey should be done to ascertain the facts - the developer's view being clearly not impartial.
The people running the meeting did not take this on board at all. The demolition and replacement of Olive Morris House is clearly a key part of their scheme.
A member of the pubic produced a print-out showing that the Olive Morris House service centre costing £3.1 million had only been completed in 2008, and been short-listed for an architectural award.
The MUSE representative was adamant that OMH is a poor quality building even so.
3. Hambrook House: the MUSE representative playfully suggested she was perhaps being provocative by suggesting that there should be a 22 storey tower fronting onto Brixton Hill. However she said that their consultations with residents (and Porden Road residents seemed to have had a lot of recognition from MUSE and it's architect) led them to re-balance the scheme. Residents wanted a higher tower at the front on Brixton Hill and a lower residential block with less overshadowing behind it (between Porden Road and Arlington Lodge).
4. The architect spoke at length about his vision of the new town hall - particularly at the rear long the Buckner Road which is currently not really a public area. He saw this as suitable for a sculpture garden with trees and access into the Town Hall from the gardens. He was also keen to make a further access to the rear of the building along a glazed-roof walkway between the Registry Office area and the Electric building.
They were rather back-pedalling on the impression I had gained that the Town Hall was being turned over to business units and council functions transferred to the new building behind. It seems that the basement area of the town hall may be destined for hot-desking business start ups etc, but the council chamber and other functions will remain, as will the Assembly Hall.
5. The Pièce de résistance of the scheme is of course the new block situated on the site of Town Hall Parade and backing onto Buckner Road. We all felt the prooposed new service centre there was much too small compared to Olive Morris House - and in the new building the service centre is proposed to be surrounding an atrium, and is in turn surrounded by the social services offices (to be relocated from Phoenix House when their lease expires in 2018).
The justification for shrinking the Service Centre was that more and more council services are done online so personal visits to the council are not necessary (both MUSE and Lambeth representatives were quite sure of this).
My own view is that the scheme MIGHT be cost neutral to the council, or even beneficial, but it seems to me that it implies further job cuts down the line, as I can't see how all the functions of Olive Morris/Phoenix House/Wanless Road/Ivor House can fit in the new building.
Final thought - this was clearly more of a focus group than any democratic form of consultation. Mr Brixton Stop the War wanted a councillor to be present. Not sure I wanted that - but it does seem that Lambeth Labour party are very good these days at initiating stuff and then letting the officers and consultants get on with it.
This is not democracy - and there isn't much we can do about it now, with only 4 out of 63 Lambeth Councillor being non-Labour.
If anyone else wants to see the current proposals, or air their views there is another stakeholder meeting tomorrow (also in Brixton Rec).
http://sut1.co.uk/sLKK4pGtsLi5uruKj...ZNQlxaBxoeHRkYCAIGAgYCEwR-S19dGQ56SDA2KycjIDI.
The link enable you to register with Eventbrite. They didn't seem to be checking tickets though.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
I can't find Olive Morris House in the NLA shortlist...am I being blind?
http://newlondonarchitecture.org/awards_2014/shortlist-announced/
http://newlondonarchitecture.org/awards_2014/shortlist-announced/
editor
hiraethified
It's not listed but if you look at the page you can see why you might think that:
http://www.newlondonarchitecture.org/project.php?id=997&name=olive_morris_house_brixton
sparkybird
ask the bird...
CH1 - thanks for that really helpful post and info. You have spurred me on to stop being so lazy and get involved so I'll go to the one at the Rec this evening and report back
So OMH has not been shortlisted for an award - it it just listed as a project in the NLA website
So OMH has not been shortlisted for an award - it it just listed as a project in the NLA website
CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
I agree I can't see it in the list on the short-list page. Maybe High Definition has more info?
Brixton IS listed under the Masterplanning category (inevitably - there's so much going on!)
sparkybird
ask the bird...
Hi folks
Just got back from the meeting at the Rec. I think me and Mr Sparkybird gate crashed as it was listed as a 'stakeholders' group (we are mere residents). However, good job we did as there were just 5 of us - the others representing 2 local societies and 1 Labour Cllr. I shudder to think what the meeting cost in consultant time (a grand?).....per person it's ridiculous!
Not much more to add to CH1's excellent report really - except that the 22 storey building on the site of Hambrook House was really the elephant in the room - all focus seemed to be on the town hall (new and old) and the 'public realm' (ie the Buckner Road corridor behind the old town hall from Acre Lane to Brixton Hill) - which will be gated (large gates) at night to discourage anti social behaviour.
The consultant was keen to find out our experience of the town hall and what would make us use the new one more. The other 3 participants visit it for meetings, but I think I've only ever been in it once in 13 years - and that was to attend the first consultation meeting on this project. One person mentioned the astronomically high cost of hiring a room (cheapest £51/hour) and so has his committee meetings else where (£17.50/hour). This would need to be addressed otherwise the community use will be zero. I said that nothing in the new proposals would make me visit it - essentially it's staying much the same - just with a cafe round the back.
Most interesting was the need to 'find a use' for the block where the current print/press works are (behind Ivor House). The residents on Porden Road want a building to be retained to discourage break ins. A museum of Lambeth/civic art gallery was suggested to nods all round. That is more likely to make me visit.
Affordable housing - we were told 40%, but not Ivor House (which will be all private) and all the new residential blocks will have commercial use on the ground floor. I came away not really clear about how the affordable housing is made up eg shared ownership, social housing. It will all be run by housing associations - not by the council.
Some heated discussion about Wanless Road which is oddly part of the scheme even though it's in LJ. The site of the dog pound has been earmarked for private housing, with no consultation. Red faces all round - Muse said that they were sure they could 'offer' some public realm improvements in the area (as a pay off)
Quite frankly, while I had an interesting and informative evening, quite how they can call this community consultation is beyond me. Every single person round the table was white middle class (and mostly middle aged). I think they'd have been better spending the grand on Nando's vouchers and holding the consultation there - at least you might reach a few more representative residents and visitors then (plus I like Nandos). I used to manage community consultations for a borough wide environmental charity and one of the key things we did was to organise events that were likely to draw local people in - eg kids events, picnics, football tournaments, craft activities - and then chat to them about the issues. Sitting with in a room for 2 hours with people like me isn't going to appeal to many!
Just got back from the meeting at the Rec. I think me and Mr Sparkybird gate crashed as it was listed as a 'stakeholders' group (we are mere residents). However, good job we did as there were just 5 of us - the others representing 2 local societies and 1 Labour Cllr. I shudder to think what the meeting cost in consultant time (a grand?).....per person it's ridiculous!
Not much more to add to CH1's excellent report really - except that the 22 storey building on the site of Hambrook House was really the elephant in the room - all focus seemed to be on the town hall (new and old) and the 'public realm' (ie the Buckner Road corridor behind the old town hall from Acre Lane to Brixton Hill) - which will be gated (large gates) at night to discourage anti social behaviour.
The consultant was keen to find out our experience of the town hall and what would make us use the new one more. The other 3 participants visit it for meetings, but I think I've only ever been in it once in 13 years - and that was to attend the first consultation meeting on this project. One person mentioned the astronomically high cost of hiring a room (cheapest £51/hour) and so has his committee meetings else where (£17.50/hour). This would need to be addressed otherwise the community use will be zero. I said that nothing in the new proposals would make me visit it - essentially it's staying much the same - just with a cafe round the back.
Most interesting was the need to 'find a use' for the block where the current print/press works are (behind Ivor House). The residents on Porden Road want a building to be retained to discourage break ins. A museum of Lambeth/civic art gallery was suggested to nods all round. That is more likely to make me visit.
Affordable housing - we were told 40%, but not Ivor House (which will be all private) and all the new residential blocks will have commercial use on the ground floor. I came away not really clear about how the affordable housing is made up eg shared ownership, social housing. It will all be run by housing associations - not by the council.
Some heated discussion about Wanless Road which is oddly part of the scheme even though it's in LJ. The site of the dog pound has been earmarked for private housing, with no consultation. Red faces all round - Muse said that they were sure they could 'offer' some public realm improvements in the area (as a pay off)
Quite frankly, while I had an interesting and informative evening, quite how they can call this community consultation is beyond me. Every single person round the table was white middle class (and mostly middle aged). I think they'd have been better spending the grand on Nando's vouchers and holding the consultation there - at least you might reach a few more representative residents and visitors then (plus I like Nandos). I used to manage community consultations for a borough wide environmental charity and one of the key things we did was to organise events that were likely to draw local people in - eg kids events, picnics, football tournaments, craft activities - and then chat to them about the issues. Sitting with in a room for 2 hours with people like me isn't going to appeal to many!
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Who are they classing as "stakeholders"?
I would have liked to have been there (partly as I live close to the Wanless Rd site). But the first I knew about it was seeing CH1 mention it in his post yesterday. I registered for tickets but was too late back from doing things in town that I had to do...things I could have replanned with a bit more notice.
As I mentioned on the LJ thread I would also like to have been at the specific Wanless Rd consultation but again only had about two weeks notice (letter through the door) and was away on holiday when it happened.
sparkybird
ask the bird...
I think there are more consultations this weekend - at least this was mentioned
CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
This is a worrying point. I invited a friend who happened to be black to our consultation. So out of 2 consultation meetings only one black person was involved - accidentally at that.
Moreover apparently if I hadn't posted on Urban earlier there might have only been three people at the meeting this evening.
It's a bit pathetic isn't it?
leanderman
Street Party: July 2
teuchter
je suis teuchter
I don't think you can blame it entirely on community apathy if no-one actually knows the consultations are happening and that they can attend.
editor
hiraethified
I think that apathy may also be fuelled by a feeling of utter disenfranchisement and a sense of pointlessness in the face of careerist politicians, super slick buzzword presentations that make no sense to most normal people, and a sense of whatever you say they'll just go and do what the fuck they want anyway.
I'm not saying everyone thinks that of course, but I've certainly heard varieties of the above used as reasons why people aren't interested in getting involved (sorry, 'engaging') - and I can certainly empathise with why they may feel that way.
CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
I'm inclined to think MUSE are treating these meetings as focus groups and didn't want too many people there. Compare this with these FLUID Brixton Central co-design workshops. There is another one of these tonight (Thursday) 7.30 pm at the Town Hall.
The FLUID things I've been to have had 50-100 people there and been major organised discussions. The technique there is to compromise the participants's integrity and get them to play the council's game: identifying assets for sale or redevelopment in order to pay for community benefits as a by-product.
On the other had MUSE simply seem to be trying out ideas:
1. What if we had a 22 storey tower block on the site of Hambrook House?
2. How about gating off Buckner Road and having a garden area there during the day?
3. What can be done to improve useability of meeting rooms in the Town Hall?
4. Olive Morris House has got to go for X,Y,Z reasons.
etc.
FLUID are on again tonight at the Town Hall with their 12 designated areas for "improvements" in Brixton Road/Atlantic Road and the arches in "Brixton Central"
Registration is available here:
https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/brix...erence-group-tickets-12000637229?ref=wpwidget
Last edited:
CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
Brilliant. You've got in some of the stuff I had forgotten about - meeting room charges, gates for Buckner Road, affordable/social housing.
Your group discussed the dog pound, so I guess someone was from LJ or neaby.
Thanks for the additional information.
sparkybird
ask the bird...
I certainly didn't see anything 'slick' last night - it was just a few people round a table having a chat. I think the community engagement consultants for the town hall scheme have failed to deliver any really. I mean who wants to sit in a room for 2 hours on a Wed evening looking at plans? Only the sort of people who turned up, natch. They need to get much more creative about how to draw people in.
I'll continue to attend and make a PITA of myself....
leanderman
Street Party: July 2
I am sure the agencies could try harder but the vast majority of residents don't care - or consider themselves too busy.
There are so many distractions: TV, gigs, gym etc
And society is probably less homogeneous than before. Streets have a rapid 'churn' of residents - I wonder how many current residents lived here 10 or 20 years ago.
My neighbour, who has lived in the road since the 1960s, said she did not come outside at our street party because she knew no one!
There are so many distractions: TV, gigs, gym etc
And society is probably less homogeneous than before. Streets have a rapid 'churn' of residents - I wonder how many current residents lived here 10 or 20 years ago.
My neighbour, who has lived in the road since the 1960s, said she did not come outside at our street party because she knew no one!
leanderman
Street Party: July 2
Beer!
sparkybird
ask the bird...
Exactly - or at least a Nando's as per my suggestion. I worked for over 10 years in the voluntary sector running and managing community consultation- you have to bribe people otherwise no one comes (except the white, middle class, middle aged ones of course.....)
Similar threads
