leanderman
Street Party: July 2
Was amazed daughter #2 loved after-school French club until I discovered the teacher handed out biscuits
Huge proposed development around Lambeth town hall promises 'community space and feel good vibes'
- Thread starter editor
- Start date
Was amazed daughter #2 loved after-school French club until I discovered the teacher handed out biscuits
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
That might get more people in, but is there really a lot of point unless there's actually an interest in listening to what they have to say?
While I don't live in Brixton any more, I do live in another area of London where there is a lot of development work with the associated consultation meetings (held in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying "beware of the leopard" of course, but you do see them sometimes) and the reason I don't go is that the council have made it abundantly clear they don't give a shit what residents think, to the extent of defying court orders. If people don't have confidence that anything they say will be taken into account why _should_ they turn up?
leanderman
Street Party: July 2
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
They can safely ignore very large numbers of people, if they're not organised outside of the planning process. Meetings where lots of locals have turned up haven't changed the council's mind in H&F at all, and if they get too uppity they get thrown out.
What has changed the council's mind is changing the council
they forgot about the fact that pissing everybody off can result in that happening. But if local elections aren't nearby, that is not a great solution, and it isn't an official part of local planning "consultation".
leanderman
Street Party: July 2
They can safely ignore very large numbers of people, if they're not organised outside of the planning process. Meetings where lots of locals have turned up haven't changed the council's mind in H&F at all, and if they get too uppity they get thrown out.
What has changed the council's mind is changing the council
We have only ourselves to blame - we prefer to watch TV or whatever.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
Prefer to watch TV vs what?
leanderman
Street Party: July 2
Prefer to watch TV vs what?
Get involved in the community
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
Lots of people get involved with issues involving the community. Even given the hugely transient populace round here, people still do stuff.
What I'm saying is that turning up to planning meetings is not necessarily a pointful activity in the first place if nobody cares what you say when you are there (unless you agree with existing policy) and it's probably rational to watch Game Of Thrones instead and just campaign in other ways at other times.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
out of curiosity can they prove title to the land?
Rushy
basically a scrotum
Council always complain how difficult it is to contact people for consultation . As I suggested on Windrush Square, just hang a huge well designed banner and info board on the site for 8 weeks and most people locally affected by the proposal will see it. Back then they said it was a great idea "can't believe no one has thought of this" and would do it. Do you think they did? The one day consultation on site was pretty good but you either had to know about it or be passing (with time to stop) on the day in question.
It doesn't exactly help if a meeting is timed to start in the early evening or late afternoon. Anything timed between 4 and 8pm is going to automatically exclude a lot of people, because of the school run, commuting home, the evening meal, and god forbid that you might want time to relax before you go out again.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
That was the feeling I got.
When I started to voice concerns I was at one point told by the head of Fluid that I was cynical.
I did feel the consultation was nudging participants to play the Councils game.
This is one of the off putting things about consultation. They are structured in such a way that if one goes "off message" it does not go down well.
Kutuzov
Active Member
The bloggers have caught up with Lambeth Council's plans for a 22-storey residential tower as part of its "new town hall" plan, as originally revealed here by CH1 last month. Seems like Labour couldn't resist cashing in on soaring property values in Brixton.
http://insidelambeth1.wordpress.com/
http://www.brixtonbuzz.com/2014/08/...-in-design-for-your-new-town-hall-in-lambeth/
Last edited:
CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
I think the sense is that a mystery tower block has appeared in the architects visuals which did not exist in the proposals they were consulting on.
Possibly "Ad hoc redesign for "Your New Town Hall" scheme incorporates tower block sticking out like a sore thumb" might have been better from your point of view? Doesn't sound so enticingly mysterious though.
Tricky Skills
Well-Known Member
The Council is now recruiting an Internal Comms bod to help sell the good news story of Your New Town Hall to all staff.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
good news stories sell themselves, it's only bad news which needs a helping hand
sparkybird
ask the bird...
I went to the last 'consultation' meeting. This will be residential. Initially it was not going to be so high, but the residents of Porden Road objected to having a mid level block so close to them, so now the housing is stepped down at Porden Road and built up high on Brixton Hill. This is so the same no's of flats/sq footerage can be squeezed onto the site as before - you can see this in the drawing
Rushy
basically a scrotum
It dwarfs everything around it including the church and town hall clock tower. There is nothing of this size anywhere near. It is even almost a third more floors than the towers in Herne Hill. It looks quite bizarre.
CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
Happened upon a picture of a dominating 22 storey residential building - albeit this is the 1902 Flatiron building on the corner of Broadway and 5th Avenue.
I think the pic does illustrate the general effect, if they did actually go ahead with the revised New Town Hall scheme.
I think the pic does illustrate the general effect, if they did actually go ahead with the revised New Town Hall scheme.
Crispy
The following psytrance is baṉned: All
The Flatiron is an office building with higher ceilings than typical residential, which would make the proposal a bit shorter. Also, that image is deliberately set up to make the tower look as tall as possible. It shows the thinnest aspect and uses one point perspective so the top doesn't diminish with height.
It wouldn't be as imposing as that image implies.
Still, quite a bit taller than anything else in Brixton (International House and Star House)
It wouldn't be as imposing as that image implies.
Still, quite a bit taller than anything else in Brixton (International House and Star House)
lang rabbie
Je ne regrette les gazebos
It is arguable that the proposed groundscraping seven storey new civic offices building would do more to destroy the setting of the Town Hall clock tower and St Matthew's Church.
High Definition
Active Member
Just finished doing a response to the latest "Your New Town Hall" plans (deadline was last Friday 16th). While I was researching this I discovered that the proposed six or seven storey new Civic Building at 2 - 7 Town Hall Parade conflicts with what the draft Lambeth Local Plan says about the site - which is that “substantial increases in height are unlikely to be acceptable given the existing townscape and nearby heritage assets” (i.e. the town hall tower and St Matthews Church).
Below is a link to a PDF version of the relevant bit of the draft Lambeth Local Plan. Lambeth published a series of amendments to the Plan at the end of last year - but none of these related to the section I've just quoted.
http://lambeth.gov.uk/sites/default...osed_Submission_261113-2_Part_11_Brixton3.pdf
Really don't see how their proposal for a six or seven storey Civic Building building can be seen as compatible with the draft Local Plan.
High Definition
Active Member
Meant to add to earlier post that Lambeth wouldn't need a new six storey office building next to the Town Hall if they kept Olive Morris House.
There are 571 deskspaces in OMH now and the Customer Service Centre on the ground floor. The new Civic Centre will contain 1650 deskspaces. So 35% of the new office space is required just to replace the office space in OMH. (The deskspace figures are from the office accommodation strategy report that went to Cabinet in November 2013).
In addition, if OMH goes, then the whole of the ground floor of the new Civic Building will be occupied by a new customer service centre to replace the one in OMH - approx 16% of the floor area of the building.
35% + 16% = 51%
If the Council retained OMH as offices and kept the Customer Service Centre there, then by my calculation the space requirement for the Civic Centre would be at around 50% less and the new building wouldn't need to be twice the height of the town hall buildings next door.
Found this
There are 571 deskspaces in OMH now and the Customer Service Centre on the ground floor. The new Civic Centre will contain 1650 deskspaces. So 35% of the new office space is required just to replace the office space in OMH. (The deskspace figures are from the office accommodation strategy report that went to Cabinet in November 2013).
In addition, if OMH goes, then the whole of the ground floor of the new Civic Building will be occupied by a new customer service centre to replace the one in OMH - approx 16% of the floor area of the building.
35% + 16% = 51%
If the Council retained OMH as offices and kept the Customer Service Centre there, then by my calculation the space requirement for the Civic Centre would be at around 50% less and the new building wouldn't need to be twice the height of the town hall buildings next door.
Found this
Rushy
basically a scrotum
The point is though that all of the town hall construction is being paid for by the developers who get to build the flats. They would get to build a whole lot less flats and therefore would, in theory, not pay for the development of the new Town Hall. (Not that I want that huge tower, by the way). How many floors is it supposed to be now?
Tricky Skills
Well-Known Member
The Environmental Impact Assessment published in November had it down to 14 floors.
superfly101
Well-Known Member
Wasn't there a couple of millions of work on the OMH roof to make it more environmentally friendly a year or so ago?
I do know 1st hand they had no idea about how air conditioning worked! Keeping the doors open purposely is not how it works. Although it does really make the people (and staff) as hot and cranky as they possibly could be.
I do know 1st hand they had no idea about how air conditioning worked! Keeping the doors open purposely is not how it works. Although it does really make the people (and staff) as hot and cranky as they possibly could be.
Similar threads
