How was your cycle commute?

[DownwardDog]

Red lights and pavements are fair game. I recognise neither gods nor kings.

 

[pissflaps]

^ RLJers

 

[plurker]

I ride to work, 19 city miles daily. I stop at every red lights and obey all rules of the road (apart from the occasional section of my ride where I *just* exceed 30mph).

Yesterday morning my boss came in. She'd been a pedestrian, crossing on a traffic-light controlled crossing un N London somewhere. A woman cyclist sailed merrily thought the red light, and knocked peds over like skittles. 2 ppl ambulanced off, and and the cyclist herself was KOd

The conversation quickly turned to 'all cyclists are RLJ arseholes, this just proves it' and I find myself having to be on the defensive, as though somehow this is my fault. I can't and won't defend people who RLJ though.

Any rider running a red light tarnishes every other rider on the road. Please don't RLJ. Simple.

 

[joustmaster]

I ride to work, 19 city miles daily. I stop at every red lights and obey all rules of the road (apart from the occasional section of my ride where I *just* exceed 30mph).

Yesterday morning my boss came in. She'd been a pedestrian, crossing on a traffic-light controlled crossing un N London somewhere. A woman cyclist sailed merrily thought the red light, and knocked peds over like skittles. 2 ppl ambulanced off, and and the cyclist herself was KOd

The conversation quickly turned to 'all cyclists are RLJ arseholes, this just proves it' and I find myself having to be on the defensive, as though somehow this is my fault. I can't and won't defend people who RLJ though.

Any rider running a red light tarnishes every other rider on the road. Please don't RLJ. Simple.

That sounds more like the cyclist not even seeing the light, rather than a mindful decision to jump it.

 

[pissflaps]

.

 

[pissflaps]

That sounds more like the cyclist not even seeing the light, rather than a mindful decision to jump it.

...or not.

does it matter? either way they shouldn't be on the fkn road.

 

[Crispy]

That sounds more like the cyclist not even seeing the light, rather than a mindful decision to jump it.

No excuse, of course.

 

[girasol]

no. it is the opposite of common sense. bikes are classified as vehicles and are subject to the same rules and regulations as any other vehicle on the road. if you can't abide by those rules or you feel you are above them, you have no business riding a bicycle, or any sort of vehicle on public roads for that matter.

What makes it possible for us to use the roads is that there is a consensus spread amongst ALL road users to obey a framework of rules. The rules exist to allow the relatively free and easy flow of traffic on the roads. This can only happen if people behave in a relatively predictable fashion, jumping lights makes you unpredictable, especially from the perspective motorised vehicles - Drivers will then go on to drive poorly around cyclists because they are too distracted by the prospect that you, or any other cyclist they may happen upon, will behave in a similarly unpredictable fashion, and that's where the danger lies.

What's also worth noting is that you seemingly adhere to the rules until you decide that your judgement over-rides them, at which point you do what you want to do. It’s at this point that you become random and unpredictable.Your value judgement (it’s safer to jump this red) is irrelevant, your actions are the key here, and as soon as you become random you have handed responsibility to the other road users to keep you safe.

Many fine people and worthy charities out there do a lot of good work lobbying for better infrastructure for cyclists. The sad reality is many of the debates surrounding cycle safety are often shut down by detractors resorting to the tiresome 'well all bloody cyclists jump lights' line (see recent debate in the House of Lords). We all know it's not true - it's only done by a selfish minority, however it is these entitled RLJ'ers that seem to garner the most attention, which is unfortunate, as cyclists are more often than not the victim of poor driving - however the debate seldom reaches this point as the agenda seems to be focused almost entirely on cyclist behavior. So what's the answer? DON'T BE A PART OF THE FUCKING PROBLEM. YOU'RE NOT HELPING. RIDE RESPONSIBLY.

I hear you, but still my thought process leads me to a different conclusion. Sorry, but I thought a lot about this and my opinion is different from yours. Note that I also drive a car and I still think cyclists are a completely different category, apart from other vehicles, not only that, I believe on some cases it's actually safer to go through red lights, no amount of capitals will change what I think, sorry.

Of course some cyclists go through red lights at the wrong time, I don't disagree with that. They are stupid or absent minded... As I said, apply common sense. The more experience you have the more you know when it's safe/appropriate to do this.

 

[joustmaster]

...or not.

does it matter? either way they shouldn't be on the fkn road.

It might have just been an accident. A momentary lapse of concentration. It happens to all cyclists and drivers at some point.
Banning people from the road for not being 100% perfect isn't really a solution.

Sometimes things will go wrong. And people might die. Such is life.

 

[joustmaster]

No excuse, of course.

indeed.

 

[girasol]

It might have just been an accident. A momentary lapse of concentration. It happens to all cyclists and drivers at some point.
Banning people from the road for not being 100% perfect isn't really a solution.

Sometimes things will go wrong. And people might die. Such is life.

yep, cars do this too with far worse consequences, given their size.

 

[pissflaps]

If you feel it's safer going through red lights then why not get off and walk your bike over the lights, that way you can be safe AND law abiding. Or is it that you really just can't be arsed waiting?

 

[pissflaps]

It might have just been an accident. A momentary lapse of concentration. It happens to all cyclists and drivers at some point.
Banning people from the road for not being 100% perfect isn't really a solution.

Sometimes things will go wrong. And people might die. Such is life.

Banning people from the road who kill and injure other road users is an entirely reasonable solution. Spilling red wine on your carpet is an 'accident' - plowing your vehicle through vulnerable road users is negligence and should be punished accordingly.

 

[girasol]

If you feel it's safer going through red lights then why not get off and walk your bike over the lights, that way you can be safe AND law abiding. Or is it that you really just want can't be arsed waiting?

I understand that jumping red lights is illegal, but so are many other things which I don't agree with being illegal. I don't blindly obey you know, I can think for myself.

It really isn't about waiting, I don't have a problem with waiting at a traffic light and I often do, but sometimes there really is no need for it. And I strongly disagree that bikes should came under the same category as all other traffic.

 

[joustmaster]

If you feel it's safer going through red lights then why not get off and walk your bike over the lights, that way you can be safe AND law abiding. Or is it that you really just want can't be arsed waiting?

for me, its both.
I will jump a light as its safer to do so. Or if I'm waiting at an empty road, I will jump it because its not going to cause any danger to do so.
I will always slow down/stop to make sure first though. And I do frown and tut at the folk you see who just weave through pedestrians and move out in to traffic, at lights.

 

[joustmaster]

plowing your vehicle through vulnerable road users is negligence and should be punished accordingly.

not always.

 

[pissflaps]

I understand that jumping red lights is illegal, but so are many other things which I don't agree with.

right. you do realise that everytime you jump a light, you make the people in the big metal speedy boxes who have a chip on their shoulder about cyclists just that little bit right?

do you not think that perhaps you have an duty of care to your fellow vulnerable road users? are you motivated entirely by selfishness?

 

[pissflaps]

for me, its both.
I will jump a light as its safer to do so. Or if I'm waiting at an empty road, I will jump it because its not going to cause any danger to do so.
I will always slow down/stop to make sure first though. And I do frown and tut at the folk you see who just weave through pedestrians and move out in to traffic, at lights.

i refer you to my previous post on the matter.

have you considered cycle training?

 

[joustmaster]

right. you do realise that everytime you jump a light, you make the people in the big metal speedy boxes who have a chip on their shoulder about cyclists just that little bit right?

do you not think that perhaps you have an duty of care to your fellow vulnerable road users? are you motivated entirely by selfishness?

As i've said before. I don't think it makes much/any difference.

 

[girasol]

right. you do realise that everytime you jump a light, you make the people in the big metal speedy boxes who have a chip on their shoulder about cyclists just that little bit right?

do you not think that perhaps you have an duty of care to your fellow vulnerable road users? are you motivated entirely by selfishness?

Like I said, I'm a driver too and I don't have a problem with cyclists setting off ahead of lights changing.

Maybe if you see it from another angle, we need to educate drivers to see why cyclists may do this. And also educate cyclists to learn when it's right to do it and when it's NOT. Not everyone in cars is against cyclists.

I would never, for example, jump a light on a route I didn't know well and didn't understand the flow of traffic.

You are coming across as very sanctimonious, which doesn't help your argument.

 

[joustmaster]

i refer you to my previous post on the matter.

have you considered cycle training?

I've done some thanks.

 

[pissflaps]

whether you are a driver or not is a non sequitur. so do i. so what?

you can't talk about educating drivers whilst you openly flout the law, and what exactly do you mean by 'when it's right and when it's not' it's NEVER right, that's how laws work.

 

[pissflaps]

I've done some thanks.

obviously you didn't care much for what they had to say.

 

[girasol]

whether you are a driver or not is a non sequitur. so do i. so what?

you can't talk about educating drivers whilst you openly flout the law, and what exactly do you mean by 'when it's right and when it's not' it's NEVER right, that's how laws work.

for the millionth time, I don't agree with the law as it stands... And some laws can be very draconian. Should I just obey and not challenge it? No.

 

[pissflaps]

what's to stop you from jumping lights in your car because you reckon it's safe to do so?

 

[girasol]

You really are missing the point, I said I think bikes are a category apart from other road vehicles... I think I have made my point, and we are now starting to around in circles.

 

[joustmaster]

obviously you didn't care much for what they had to say.

It was quite useful stuff.
I don't have as such a rigid belief in the rules, as you seem to do. I see the rules of the road as something for motor vehicles, with some pamphlet of cycling bits tacked on to the end. So I take it all with a pinch of salt.

 

[joustmaster]

what's to stop you from jumping lights in your car because you reckon it's safe to do so?

Well, the fact that I would never consider it to be safe. Are you saying you think a car has the same qualities of a bike?

 

[girasol]

do you not think that perhaps you have an duty of care to your fellow vulnerable road users? are you motivated entirely by selfishness?

One last thing, when it comes to the road itself, we are the most vulnerable road users, we have a duty to protect ourselves.

 

[Crispy]

To get back a little bit on topic, I believe this is the light&bridge in question:



The road on the other side is straight and has no side roads joining it for several hundred meters. I can see how, if you're used to the route, it would feel safe to ride through when the road beyond is clear. I've ridden through similar tunnels without light control, relying solely on judgement. I'd rank this pretty damn low in the RLJ crime ranking.