How useful would you rate, the economic analysis of Karl Marx [Das Kapital]..........

[butchersapron]

This one?

Yep

 

[chilango]

Cool. It's on my list. ta.

 

[TremulousTetra]

In fact I have just found a public domain audio book version on my pc, if anybody wants a copy.

 

[tbaldwin]

Crikey. What a sad thread. People who try and overcomplicate or overintellectualise Socialism are doing the Tories work. Thick bastards with a sad lack of common sense......

 

[love detective]

what has capital, the book, got to do with socialism - over complicated/intellectualised or otherwise?

the clue's in the title

 

[Proper Tidy]

Ignore Balders, everybody else does.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Crikey. What a sad thread. People who try and overcomplicate or overintellectualise Socialism are doing the Tories work.

What does a set of books on political economy have to do with "overintellectualising socialism", you tart?

Thick bastards with a sad lack of common sense......

Good to see you engaging in reflexivity in your old age.

 

[butchersapron]

Who is the best scientist of them all? It's Karl Marx.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Who is the best scientist of them all? It's Karl Marx.

Economics is a science worthy of about as much academic respect as astrology. Our world would probably be in a far better state if we trusted in the conclusions of the latter rather than the former.

To study a lie with the greatest possible academic vigour serves only to make it seem more true. Look at the MMR/autism scare. A decade of patient study discredited the idea completely, but it made it seem like there was something to be studied in the first place, which of course there wasn't. So we still have kids whose parents think that vaccinations are bad for them and we still have academics who think that human knowledge, skill and labour can be quantified and exchanged.

Not that I have any problem with Marx per se, I just consider any description of economics as a science to be an insult to scientists.

 

[redcogs]

Economics is a science worthy of about as much academic respect as astrology. Our world would probably be in a far better state if we trusted in the conclusions of the latter rather than the former.

To study a lie with the greatest possible academic vigour serves only to make it seem more true. Look at the MMR/autism scare. A decade of patient study discredited the idea completely, but it made it seem like there was something to be studied in the first place, which of course there wasn't. So we still have kids whose parents think that vaccinations are bad for them and we still have academics who think that human knowledge, skill and labour can be quantified and exchanged.

Not that I have any problem with Marx per se, I just consider any description of economics as a science to be an insult to scientists.

Yeah, if only scientists would refrain from giving science a bad name - from Einstein (and probably earlier) giving humanity the ability to destroy humanity inthe shape of atomic power.

At least Karl had the insight to see that capitalism looks to be on the way towards barbarism, unless the democratic power of the majority can divert it towards a collectivised socialist future.

Its not looking too likely at the moment though :-(

 

[SpookyFrank]

Yeah, if only scientists would refrain from giving science a bad name - from Einstein (and probably earlier) giving humanity the ability to destroy humanity inthe shape of atomic power.

At least Karl had the insight to see that capitalism looks to be on the way towards barbarism, unless the democratic power of the majority can divert it towards a collectivised socialist future.

Its not looking too likely at the moment though :-(

Like I say, Marx is great (his writings at any rate, I reckon he'd have been bit of a dick if you actually met him) but he was not a scientist.

 

[redcogs]

Like I say, Marx is great (his writings at any rate, I reckon he'd have been bit of a dick if you actually met him) but he was not a scientist.

i'd heard that Karl could be quite friendly towards his female servants..

 

[JimW]

Like I say, Marx is great (his writings at any rate, I reckon he'd have been bit of a dick if you actually met him) but he was not a scientist.

A scientist as much as any other social scientist I'd have thought (not that I'm much up on the history of science or its terminological definitions); after all, what he was about was a critique of political economy as has been mentioned upthread, and he had little time for the bourgeois economists as I recall from the bits of him I've read.

 

[butchersapron]

Like I say, Marx is great (his writings at any rate, I reckon he'd have been bit of a dick if you actually met him) but he was not a scientist.

However he is the most influential person going by the h-index which is what this is about - notwithstanding the daft title Nature gave the piece..

i'd heard that Karl could be quite friendly towards his female servants..

He didn't have any.

 

[love detective]

yep the title of that piece bears no relation to the actual content of the story

 

[redcogs]

He didn't have any.

That would depend, like so much history, on who you choose to believe..

https://www.greenleft.org.au/node/41929

 

[butchersapron]

That would depend, like so much history, on who you choose to believe..

https://www.greenleft.org.au/node/41929

Helene Demuth was his wifes servant.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Helene Demuth was his wifes servant.

Surely that's the same as being Karl's servant though?

 

[butchersapron]

Surely that's the same as being Karl's servant though?

Nope, she was an old family friend, being paid by his wifes family. Servant isn't even close to being the the right word for their relationship either.

 

[redcogs]

As a taxpayer i subsidise the Windsor family's servants. On your logic butchers' they don't have any! Yet we know they have a veritable army of arse wipers and egg boilers.

 

[butchersapron]

Yes, the windsor families servants.

 

[redcogs]

Yes, the Marx families servant.

 

[Idris2002]

Compliments pass when the quality meet.

 

[butchersapron]

Nope.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Since Engels was paying to support Marx's family, were they no longer his family?

 

[butchersapron]

Since Engels was paying to support Marx's family, were they no longer his family?

First off, Engels wasn't simply paying to support marx's family - he lent Marx money from time to time. If you borrow money are you then dispossessed of your family? Secondly, what?

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

If you borrow money are you then dispossessed of your family? Secondly, what?

No. Which was my point. Just because Marx's wife's family was paying for their servant/helper/nurse/whatever, it doen't mean that she wasn't their servant/helper/nurse/whatever. She was, regardless of who paid her wages.

 

[redcogs]

furthermore it is absolutely clear that Karl was a material beneficiary of the services of Lenchen the Marx families servant. It is therefore appropriate to regard Lenchen as Karl's servant, and also the servant of Mrs Marx and the offspring.

 

[butchersapron]

No. Which was my point. Just because Marx's wife's family was paying for their servant/helper/nurse/whatever, it doen't mean that she wasn't their servant/helper/nurse/whatever. She was, regardless of who paid her wages.

She wasn't their servant, you might as well say marx was engels servant following your logic.

 

[butchersapron]

furthermore it is absolutely clear that Karl was a material beneficiary of the services of Lenchen the Marx families servant. It is therefore appropriate to regard Lenchen as Karl's servant, and also the servant of Mrs Marx and the offspring.

And marx as engels servant.