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How middle-class is academia?

AllEternalsHeck

Active Member
I thought I was sort of middle-class until I went to uni, and realised a lot of the real middle class types with doctors and lawyers for parents are basically from a different world. Then I did my masters at a much more working class university and felt far more at home. Now I'm about to start my PhD at a more posh uni again I'm thinking everyone will be really cultured and it might be kind of alienating.

I'm just wondering what people's experiences are of social class differences in academia?

When I went for my PhD interview they were all really sound tbf, I enjoyed the interview, but in the waiting area I could just observe the office going around their business and everyone is really quiet and well-spoken and so on.

I'm having this sort of thing where I'm really looking forward to leaving my call-centre job to study/research full-time... BUT I am quite comfortable in my call-centre environment and the research office seems intimidating in comparison.
 
the same could have been said, of comfort, of when you started school: you were comfy at home and school seemed intimidating. dk which uni you're talking about, but there are a lot of people from w/c backgrounds doing research postgraduate degrees. if they can do it, so can you. what matters isn't what x or y think of you but your relationship with your supervisor - very important - and of course the quality of your research. good luck!
 
the same could have been said, of comfort, of when you started school: you were comfy at home and school seemed intimidating. dk which uni you're talking about, but there are a lot of people from w/c backgrounds doing research postgraduate degrees. if they can do it, so can you. what matters isn't what x or y think of you but your relationship with your supervisor - very important - and of course the quality of your research. good luck!

Thank you! I must say my supervisor is pretty sound. I did a panel interview (six people) and they were all really nice, totally put me at ease and I left with the impression that I will enjoy working there.

Probably just nerves about the whole thing, it's a big life change. And I didn't really touch in this in my previous thread about AGM's but tons of people at that AGM seemed to be really quite upper class and completely comfortable in that environment. All very jolly hockey sticks, while I was pretty nervous.

I am very positive about the research and the opportunities I have. I have no doubt that in four years I'll have completed this PhD, with more than adequate support along with way. It's a great department. I think I'm mostly worried because I have to work from the office a few days a week (which I hadn't realised at first) and it's like, will I fit in ok?
 
Thank you! I must say my supervisor is pretty sound. I did a panel interview (six people) and they were all really nice, totally put me at ease and I left with the impression that I will enjoy working there.

Probably just nerves about the whole thing, it's a big life change. And I didn't really touch in this in my previous thread about AGM's but tons of people at that AGM seemed to be really quite upper class and completely comfortable in that environment. All very jolly hockey sticks, while I was pretty nervous.

I am very positive about the research and the opportunities I have. I have no doubt that in four years I'll have completed this PhD, with more than adequate support along with way. It's a great department. I think I'm mostly worried because I have to work from the office a few days a week (which I hadn't realised at first) and it's like, will I fit in ok?
no. you won't 'fit in', they'll have to adjust to you as much as you to them.
 
no. you won't 'fit in', they'll have to adjust to you as much as you to them.

That is a fair point! I do have a personal philosophy that if I'm nervous in a situation, I make a point of exposing myself to that type of situation until I'm comfortable. Sure I'll be nervous at first, but in four years time I'll be part of the furniture, helping out the new team members etc. I have as much right to be there and be myself as anyone else.
 
The call-centre I work in is a mental environment really, but over time I've grown accustomed to the noise and madness. I quite like it now, even if I am one of the quieter members of the team. Last time I worked in any sort of middle-class environment was my first job in the local council offices. Hugely alienating experience for me, although that wasn't purely a social class thing, as much as it was being a deeply unhappy and anxious teenager who couldn't relate to anyone.

Just realised that the research office kind of reminded me of the council office and probably explains some of my anxiety. Posting on here is like a weird self-counselling session.
 
I thought I was sort of middle-class until I went to uni, and realised a lot of the real middle class types with doctors and lawyers for parents are basically from a different world. Then I did my masters at a much more working class university and felt far more at home. Now I'm about to start my PhD at a more posh uni again I'm thinking everyone will be really cultured and it might be kind of alienating.

I'm just wondering what people's experiences are of social class differences in academia?

When I went for my PhD interview they were all really sound tbf, I enjoyed the interview, but in the waiting area I could just observe the office going around their business and everyone is really quiet and well-spoken and so on.

I'm having this sort of thing where I'm really looking forward to leaving my call-centre job to study/research full-time... BUT I am quite comfortable in my call-centre environment and the research office seems intimidating in comparison.
It varies by discipline.

American anthropology is notorious for being very upper-middle class even by academic standards. I know someone who is convinced that Napoleon Chagnon's biological models of aggression among the Yanomamo are the result of him being driven mad by the experience of coming from a working-class French Canadian home into a nest of bourgeois vipers.

(Chagnon famously keeps a fridge full of beer in his office, and is blotto by 1500 hours).
 
There are some good accounts of class and gender differences/issues - Eve was Framed (Helena Kennedy) outlines various things but is a decade or so old. However I would say it is entirely an individual thing and highly dependent on location, subject, supervisor etc. Most places you are not going to be bothered by arcane rituals with velvet and roast swan or snippy old academics who think regional accents should be kept in the orchard. I've worked and studied at several universities and my working class background has never been an issue for me - if it was for others then I didn't notice and anyway fek 'em if it was!
 
It varies by discipline.

American anthropology is notorious for being very upper-middle class even by academic standards. I know someone who is convinced that Napoleon Chagnon's biological models of aggression among the Yanomamo are the result of him being driven mad by the experience of coming from a working-class French Canadian home into a nest of bourgeois vipers.

(Chagnon famously keeps a fridge full of beer in his office, and is blotto by 1500 hours).

Without giving away too much identifying info, it is a public health department in one of the Scottish Russell Group universities.

It is funny how different department have different social class mixes. I noticed this in undergrad. Sociology had a decent mix of working class, mature students etc. History was pretty uniformly middle class. Politics was posh as fuck, one idiot came to class in a suit and tie (not the tutor). It's quite interesting.
 
There are some good accounts of class and gender differences/issues - Eve was Framed (Helena Kennedy) outlines various things but is a decade or so old. However I would say it is entirely an individual thing and highly dependent on location, subject, supervisor etc. Most places you are not going to be bothered by arcane rituals with velvet and roast swan or snippy old academics who think regional accents should be kept in the orchard. I've worked and studied at several universities and my working class background has never been an issue for me - if it was for others then I didn't notice and anyway fek 'em if it was!

Yeah I did find some articles where the authors felt working class academics face structural career disadvantages. I must say nothing has given me any impression that would be the case, it's not a concern for me at all.
 
I have just moved from one uni to another
Student body is about the same ethinic/age/class composition at both but academic team are more middle class, younger and more White at my new place

I think more academics in my old place had been to that uni to study before working there and it made a more working class staff group

How these elements affect student experience is not discussed enough in my experience even though modules and courses dissect equality issues
 
Nearly all of the academics I know are working class but much cleverer than me. They are all scientists. I am a little bit in awe of them and mostly just grateful that they let me hang out with them because they are great fun.

I'm sure you'll be fine AllEternalsHeck - it always takes a while to adjust but no one is better than anyone else.
 
Everyone is winging it to an extent
The good colleagues let that be known
The bad colleagues hide it in competitiveness and one upmanship
 
Linky. Quite a lot of eccentric behaviour in that article and not just from Chagnon. Is he worth reading?
I'd say yes, but remember that he is . . . controversial. From memory, his big claim was that Yanomamo males who participate in violent interaction - warfare - with neighbours have more children. R. Brian Ferguson has claimed that C.'s own data don't support this. The last time I read this debate C. was promising to come up with the data goods to back up his claim, but was keeping the world waiting on that score.

Another point I'm making from memory is that C. says that Yanomamo warfare does not involve the abduction of women from neighbouring groups, but that the Evolutionary Psychology crowd consistently quote him to that effect. I'm going to have to go and check that one now.

E2A: The problem is what do you mean by 'does not involve'. C. says that war and raiding is not initiated with the intention of abducting women (the position and condition of women in the Yanomamo communities C. studied appears to have been really fucking grim), but if the opportunity presents itself. . .

The big mistake is to assume - as both hippies and Ev.Psychoes do - that the Yanomamo are a metonym for the 'primitive' and that what is true of them is true of 'primitives' everywhere. C. himself says that there are related groups that do not exhibit the patterns of agonistic behaviour he observed in the groups he lived with, on and off, for 36 months.

and here's one I made earlier:

OK. I was away from my PC for most of the past week, and I'm not sure I'll even now have time to do this justice. But what I'm going to try and do in this and (possibly) further posts is to try and address the issues that have arisen throughout this thread, by reference to some of the ethnography of the Yanomamo.

Before that, I want to quote what Adam Kuper said about the concept of 'the primitive'; 'it is our phlogiston, our aether'. Those defunct and debunked concepts will need no introduction to anyone here. Intended to enhance our understanding of the natural, they were abandoned when it became clear that they were at best surplus to requirements, at worst actively misleading. So too with the concept of the 'primitive'; Kuper would tell you that it misleads by lumping all the various 'primitive' societies into one category, and in so doing wipes out the crucial distinctions and differences between those societies, and can also lead us back into the deeply flawed perceptions of 'primitive' societies handed down to us from the Western philosophical tradition. Pace Hobbes and Rousseau, 'primitive' or small-scale societies are neither cases of a 'nasty, brutish and short. . . war of all against all', nor are they zones where the fantasy of the 'noble savage' is a reality (though it was Dryden who invented the concept of the noble savage a century before Rousseau; all of these people based their conceptions of the 'primitive' on slender or non-existent evidence).

Napoleon A. Chagnon, one of the most well-known, and most controversial, of today's anthropologists of 'primitive' society is very careful to signal his awareness of these issues at the beginning of his famous ethnography Yanomamo. He insists on the aggressive and agonistic reality of Yanomamo social life (one of the reasons his work is controversial, and the major points of dispute between him and other anthropologists of this region). However, he has this to say about another indigenous group, the Ye'kwana Indians:

By contrast to many experiences I had among the Yanomamo, the Ye'kwana were very pleasant and charming, all of them anxious to help me and honor bound to show any visitor the numerous courtesies of their system of ettiquete. . . Other anthropologists have also noted sharp contrasts in the people they study from one field situation to another. One of the most startling examples of this is in the work of Colin Turnbull who first studied the Ituri Pygmies and found them delightful to live with, but then studied the Ik of the desolate otucroppings of the Kenya/Uganda/Sudan border region, a people he had difficulty coping with intellectually, emotionally and physically.


I'm quoting this point because I think it demonstrates the need to avoid assuming that known cases in one region (along the Venezuela-Brazil border, where the Yanomamo reside) to another (the area where this supposed 'lost tribe' live, which IIRC is far away from the Yanomamo area, on the Brazil-Peru border). There are certain generalisations we can make, however, and that is concerning the nature of political leadership and social control in these societies. Chagnon notes that

most of the time men like Kaobawa are like the North American Indian 'Chief' whose authority was characterised in the following fashion: "One word from the chief, and each man does as he pleases"


Chagnon does mention cases of violent and despotic headmen, but his overall view is of a spectrum of political leaderships in which control by violence is one extreme end of the spectrum and not the norm. I'd say that this is linked to the economic and ecological condition of the Yanomamo. A common undergraduate mistake is to assume that the Yanomamo are 'hunter-gatherers' (the misleading concept of 'the primitive' at work again). On the contrary, the Yanomamo derive around 80% of their subsistence from cultivating gardens, whose location shifts, as do Yanomamo villages. Yanomamo economics cannot support a politics which allows for the maintenance of state or state-like political relationships; there is not, among the Yanomamo, the kind of permanently settled lifestyle or economic surplus which would allow for the emergence of a full-time social grouping dedicated to political control. Neither Yanomamo politics, nor its economic base, can be assumed to be in any way equivalent or even comparable to the slave-based agricultural societies of ancient Greece. I strongly suspect that the same is true of the 'lost tribe' whose putative discovery inspired this thread. In conclusion (for now) I'd say that while we have no reason to suppose that this 'lost tribes' lost nature is the result of a political leaders insistence on remaining uncontacted (because that's not how politics works in this sort of society) we have good reason to believe that the penetration of indigenous territory by e.g. gold miners brings in its wakes changes in the security of indigenous peoples, changes which are difficult at best and disastrous at worst. This latter point is something Chagnon has emphasised in the case of the Yanomamo. He had this to say about one episode of external penetration of Yanomamoland in the late 1980s:

Gold was discovered in the Surucucu region of the Brazilian Yanomam6 territory in early 1987. In August of that year a clash occurred between the miners and a group of Yano- mam6 in which four Yanomamo were killed and their bodies desecrated by a mob of angry miners who, during the clash, lost at least one of their own members as well. Since then, at least another twenty Yanomamo have been killed by miners, and a total of six miners have been killed in retaliation. The Brazilian gov- ernment began to severely restrict access to this area by journalists, medical personnel, anthropologists, and other researchers who might be sympathetic to the natives and went to the extreme of expelling missionaries who had spent as many as twenty years among the Yanomamo. Subsequent reports that came out of this area were usually vague and based on secondhand information, but all added up to the same dismal and alarming story: miners were illegally entering Yanomamo territory in large numbers, contaminating the rivers with mercury compounds used in the extraction of gold, and creating new disease problems that were taking a heavy toll among the Yano- mam6. The dramatic increase in human num- bers also caused existing diseases, such as ma- laria, to become epidemic, increasing the mor- tality rate.
 
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