How long do uPVC windows last?

[platinumsage]

I just checked the watermarked dates on ours and they're 1996. They still work, the sealed units are all fine, although the seals between the frames and the glass are starting to degrade. Thinking it might be an idea to replace them now to get the advantage of better insulation etc that new windows will offer.

Wondering how long people expect uPVC windows to last? I guess loads of people replaced original single glazing in inter-war semis with double glazing for the first time in the 80s and 90s....

 

[teuchter]

I think the frames can actually last quite a while and often end up getting junked when they could actually be refurbed.
Replacing the 90s glazing units with good quality modern ones will make a significant difference to insulation. So will replacing all the rubber seals around opening sashes. Also, checking for bent hinges that mean the sashes don't close properly and leave gaps.
I'm no fan of uPVC windows generally but one of the best things about them is that you can usually replace parts easily and cheaply.
Their environmental disbenefits are to do with manufacture and non recyclability of PVC. Once they already exist though - might as well get their maximum lifespan out of them.

 

[planetgeli]

I have one in my house that doesn't seem to close properly anymore, in that the window doesn't 'click' when it closes and I'm damn sure draughts are coming through. Anyone (teuchter platinumsage ) care to diagnose that and tell me what's best to do?

 

[teuchter]

I have one in my house that doesn't seem to close properly anymore, in that the window doesn't 'click' when it closes and I'm damn sure draughts are coming through. Anyone (teuchter platinumsage ) care to diagnose that and tell me what's best to do?

Yes. Take a look at the hinges. Probably find they are bent from some time when someone tried to force it open too far. Post a photo if you want. I've just replaced a bunch that were like this.

 

[Sprocket.]

I understand the ballpark length of time is around twenty years. Mine are that old and are getting ready for replacement. I have already had three units reseated or replaced after the seals blew and condensation rendered them useless.
The hinges are prone to failure but are readily available and easy to replace.

 

[planetgeli]

Yes. Take a look at the hinges. Probably find they are bent from some time when someone tried to force it open too far. Post a photo if you want. I've just replaced a bunch that were like this.

Cheers. May post photo tomorrow.

 

[platinumsage]

We had a couple of hinges replaced when we moved in, was about 50 quid each I think.

The bloke said they couldn't replace the gaskets between the frame and windows because there were so many different profiles no one sold spares.

e.g.:

 

[platinumsage]

I think the frames can actually last quite a while and often end up getting junked when they could actually be refurbed.
Replacing the 90s glazing units with good quality modern ones will make a significant difference to insulation. So will replacing all the rubber seals around opening sashes. Also, checking for bent hinges that mean the sashes don't close properly and leave gaps.
I'm no fan of uPVC windows generally but one of the best things about them is that you can usually replace parts easily and cheaply.
Their environmental disbenefits are to do with manufacture and non recyclability of PVC. Once they already exist though - might as well get their maximum lifespan out of them.

Don't new glazing units have bigger gaps between the two panes, for improved insulation. Presumably this would mean new frames are required? Our current ones are pretty thin, not much more than a centimetre between the glass.

 

[teuchter]

Don't new glazing units have bigger gaps between the two panes, for improved insulation. Presumably this would mean new frames are required? Our current ones are pretty thin, not much more than a centimetre between the glass.

Ah, if they are old enough that they are that thin then that might change things yes. Although, modern units at that thickness would still be better than the original ones. Would require some research to find out what's available. And I don't recognise that gasket type. Usually there's a bit of the PVC frame that clips in/out and the seal is made with compressible foam tape.

 

[teuchter]

I understand the ballpark length of time is around twenty years. Mine are that old and are getting ready for replacement. I have already had three units reseated or replaced after the seals blew and condensation rendered them useless.
The hinges are prone to failure but are readily available and easy to replace.

The twenty years is for the glazing units rather than the PVC frames I think.

 

[platinumsage]

If the frames are 25 years old would they last another 25? Might be a false economy to replace just the glazing now if the frames won’t last the distance.

 

[Sprocket.]

The twenty years is for the glazing units rather than the PVC frames I think.

That would fit with the failure of the sealed units. The only frame I’ve had to replace was a south facing one that is in full sun most of the day. After eighteen summers it was quite substantially warped.

 

[teuchter]

If the frames are 25 years old would they last another 25? Might be a false economy to replace just the glazing now if the frames won’t last the distance.

Well that's a good question. The answer is probably a mixture of 'it depends' and no-one really knows, because there are not loads of them that have been installed for longer than 30 or 40 years. I reckon it's quite possible that they could last another 25 with some of the moving parts replaced but I don't know. I think I've looked into this in the past and not been able to find a clear answer anywhere.

 

[planetgeli]

Yeah the hinges are fine. When I close the window it doesn't make that last nice click noise. When I open the window the button, which hasn't (doesn't) fully come back out can be hard to press in sometimes. It seems minor but there are draughts compared to the other windows. I've got some fancy draught excluding tape on it but I'd rather fix it. I just don't know what needs fixing.

 

[gentlegreen]

Two of the panels I had installed in 2003 are blown.
The back door is fecked because I allowed a fig tree to grow out of the frame.
Since I was never happy with the shape of the kitchen window anyway and I want French doors I'm having the lot replaced so I can sell the house - so only the two front windows remaining from a £2300 (?) installation.
I'm also unsure about the minimalist front door panel and will probably have to invest in a partially-glazed replacement.

 

[teuchter]

Yeah the hinges are fine. When I close the window it doesn't make that last nice click noise. When I open the window the button, which hasn't (doesn't) fully come back out can be hard to press in sometimes. It seems minor but there are draughts compared to the other windows. I've got some fancy draught excluding tape on it but I'd rather fix it. I just don't know what needs fixing.

The button not clicking (I don't know what the button does on your windows) might mean there's something wrong with the internal mechanism of the handle/lock itself or it might be because something is stopping the window closing completely, so the mechanism never quite reaches it's home positon.

Are you sure the hinges are ok? In my experience they can easily appear fine at first glance but it turns out they are slightly bent and it only takes a few mm to throw the casement out of alignment.

 

[planetgeli]

The button not clicking (I don't know what the button does on your windows) might mean there's something wrong with the internal mechanism of the handle/lock itself or it might be because something is stopping the window closing completely, so the mechanism never quite reaches it's home positon.

Are you sure the hinges are ok? In my experience they can easily appear fine at first glance but it turns out they are slightly bent and it only takes a few mm to throw the casement out of alignment.

First para, yes, absolutely, I think that is what is going on (one of those options) - which is kind of why I don't know what to do about it.

Second para, pretty sure yes. But I'll look again.

The button is one you have to depress in order to 'unlock' the handle so you can move it. I thought all the uPVC windows had this? It is a lock. We have keys for it.

 

[teuchter]

On the ones I have, you close the handle and then press the button in if you want to lock it shut. To get the button to come back out you need the key. I think there are various types.

If you can close the handle, and get the desired click, when the window's open and it's not attempting to engage with the strikeplate in the window, then I'd say that the handle mechanism is probably ok. If it won't close properly in that scenario, then I'd say maybe it's broken, and that might be the reason the window doesn't close fully. In that case, I think it's usually possible to replace the handle (and probably also the matching strikeplate on the frame).

 

[gentlegreen]

What has annoyed me massively about 9 point locking doors is firstly having to step over the frame - and then the locks themselves - a nightmare when the mechanisms wear out and you find you have to buy the whole assembly for over £100 and cycling home with a thing two metres long was "interesting".

 

[mauvais]

The click is the internal catch within the handle popping out and retaining it in the closed position. Both this and the handle button have no direct bearing on whether the window is properly closed and locked.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

I think I need all my uPVC windows done. I can see condensation in quite a few and two are actually filling up with water. I've lived in the house for 14 years so they are at least a fair bit older than that. Probably just as expensive to get the whole frame etc changed right?
I don't suppose anyone can recommend a company in South London / Croydon that they know do a good job? It's going to cost a fair whack for a three bed house right?

 

[gentlegreen]

I think I need all my uPVC windows done. I can see condensation in quite a few and two are actually filling up with water. I've lived in the house for 14 years so they are at least a fair bit older than that. Probably just as expensive to get the whole frame etc changed right?
I don't suppose anyone can recommend a company in South London / Croydon that they know do a good job? It's going to cost a fair whack for a three bed house right?

I'm having mine replaced, but I reckon I might as an experiment drill a hole or two to see if I can let the vapour out.
The weird thing is how vapour can leave a deposit

 

[teuchter]

I think I need all my uPVC windows done. I can see condensation in quite a few and two are actually filling up with water. I've lived in the house for 14 years so they are at least a fair bit older than that. Probably just as expensive to get the whole frame etc changed right?
I don't suppose anyone can recommend a company in South London / Croydon that they know do a good job? It's going to cost a fair whack for a three bed house right?

It ought to be cheaper just to replace the glazing units, as you don't have all the disruption of pulling out the frames and installing new ones.
It's potentially DIY-able - there are companies online who will make new units to size but you'd need to be confident you were giving them the right sizes. If you were doing the whole house it wouldn't be a trivial job.

I think that if you were just to replace the glazing you should work on a very approximate cost of £100 per square meter (just to supply the units). Then there would be installation costs on top of that unless you were doing it yourself.

To replace a whole window, it often seems to end up averaging around £1000 per window. Obviously the cost depends on the size and how many opening sections it has.

So yeah it will cost a fair bit for a whole house.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

It ought to be cheaper just to replace the glazing units, as you don't have all the disruption of pulling out the frames and installing new ones.
It's potentially DIY-able - there are companies online who will make new units to size but you'd need to be confident you were giving them the right sizes. If you were doing the whole house it wouldn't be a trivial job.

I think that if you were just to replace the glazing you should work on a very approximate cost of £100 per square meter (just to supply the units). Then there would be installation costs on top of that unless you were doing it yourself.

To replace a whole window, it often seems to end up averaging around £1000 per window. Obviously the cost depends on the size and how many opening sections it has.

So yeah it will cost a fair bit for a whole house.

I don't think I can do it myself, and I reckon it's about £100 per popped unit ? I have at least 7 visibility failed, and the frames look old and horrible. Dirty inside and out. The back patio doors don't shut properly if I open them now (especially in summer when needed) and adjusting doesn't seem to help.
I know it's a massive expense, but wonder if I shouldn't just get it all done in one go. Would there be a saving maybe?

 

[teuchter]

I don't think I can do it myself, and I reckon it's about £100 per popped unit ? I have at least 7 visibility failed, and the frames look old and horrible. Dirty inside and out. The back patio doors don't shut properly if I open them now (especially in summer when needed) and adjusting doesn't seem to help.
I know it's a massive expense, but wonder if I shouldn't just get it all done in one go. Would there be a saving maybe?

As per conversation above, it's a bit of an unknown how long the frames will continue to live, if you just replace the glazing. Maybe also depends how long you intend to live in that house?
I think a starting point would be to get a quote for each option. I can't really suggest any south london companies I'm afraid, the only ones I can think of do aluminium/timber rather than PVC.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

As per conversation above, it's a bit of an unknown how long the frames will continue to live, if you just replace the glazing. Maybe also depends how long you intend to live in that house?
I think a starting point would be to get a quote for each option. I can't really suggest any south london companies I'm afraid, the only ones I can think of do aluminium/timber rather than PVC.

I'm also open to aluminium, but that's a lot more expensive isn't it?
I did try and get a couple of local fitters to give me quotes for just the panes, but neither ever got back to me after twice sending measurements and follow up emails. Other place outright only did whole frames. I think that's what started me thinking about just going straight for full frames.

Fyi I intend to live in my house forever. Can't imagine I'll have the money to move, and I've no reason to leave London.

 

[teuchter]

I'm also open to aluminium, but that's a lot more expensive isn't it?
I did try and get a couple of local fitters to give me quotes for just the panes, but neither ever got back to me after twice sending measurements and follow up emails. Other place outright only did whole frames. I think that's what started me thinking about just going straight for full frames.

Fyi I intend to live in my house forever. Can't imagine I'll have the money to move, and I've no reason to leave London.

Aluminium will tend to be more expensive yes but maybe not loads and loads more. And if you factor in the longer (maybe) lifespan you can argue it balances out.
The downside of aluminium is that they may be less well insulated.
In my opinion the best option is often composite - this means basically timber (good insulation) but with aluminium facing on the outside, meaning you don't have to worry about repainting the timber.
One of the biggest manufacturers of composite windows is Velfac and I think they are open to homeowner/domestic enquiries. They are usually quite competitivey priced (and may well come back to you with special offers after they give the initial quote). I would say that if you're considering getting all the windows replaced, it would be worth trying to get a price from them (or alternatives). You can see how it compares to what uPVC comes out at and then decide if the extra seems worthwhile to you.

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You might ask what are the downsides of uPVC. Partly it depends on your view on environmental impact, and aesthetic preferences. If neither of those bother you, then arguably they are a good value option - they are relatively inexpensive, they are quite thermally efficient and their lifespan may well be longer than is sometimes assumed.

But one of the main things that's overlooked with PVC is that the frames can be very chunky and especially on certain windows (smaller ones, or ones that are subdivided a lot) they just get silly with half of your window opening being taken up with plastic frames rather than glass. Some of this can be avoided by designing them more sensibly (limiting the number of subdivisions for example). There are also lots of different types of PVC. The cheaper ones will tend to have chunkier frames.

There's quite a lot to be thought about when it comes to windows...and often it isn't thought about.

 

[mauvais]

I dislike uPVC because they tend to look bad, not just for the bulk but because of things like 45 degree seams, and then the effects of UV degradation over time.

However I will concede that there are now premium uPVC products - in particular I note one local supplier that is doing mortise & tenon joins and actually got conservation approved. Their product looks good, at least in photos.

 

[teuchter]

I dislike uPVC because they tend to look bad, not just for the bulk but because of things like 45 degree seams, and then the effects of UV degradation over time.

However I will concede that there are now premium uPVC products - in particular I note one local supplier that is doing mortise & tenon joins and actually got conservation approved. Their product looks good, at least in photos.

Interesting that they appear to have managed to get the frame section down to something similar to traditional timber - the bottom member of the upper sliding sash for example.

 

[platinumsage]

On a similar note, what about uPVC roofline i.e. soffits and bargeboards?

Currently we have wood which looks like it needs repainting about now, that's if none if it is rotten. This means sanding, priming etc, probably a big messy job. This will need doing again and again after however long, but I've read that uPVC can last 60 years?

The mixed metal/plastic guttering needs replacing anyway (we've brown plastic guttering, which I imagine is probably equivalent to avocado bath suites). Just saying "do me it all new in plastic" seems easier than "take the older guttering off, sand and repaint the wood, and then put new guttering on".