CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
If they can expel Alistair Campbell, why not Kate? She has several times voted against her own whip in Brexit votes.
Her attitude is positively Mosleyite if you ask me.
How are we going to get rid of Kate Hoey
- Thread starter ash
- Start date
Her attitude is positively Mosleyite if you ask me.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
The thing about Hoey is that she is hard-line Unionist No Deal Brexiteer.
She always has been.
May had a deal to leave. Not good enough for Hoey.
She is presenting Brexit party as a bunch of reasonable people who just want democracy to work.
I agree with CH1 her politics about Brexit are positively right wing in an Ulster Unionist way.
She's never lost her roots despite being an inner city London MP for years.
She always has been.
May had a deal to leave. Not good enough for Hoey.
She is presenting Brexit party as a bunch of reasonable people who just want democracy to work.
I agree with CH1 her politics about Brexit are positively right wing in an Ulster Unionist way.
She's never lost her roots despite being an inner city London MP for years.
eoin_k
Lawyer's fees, beetroot and music
Not quite always ... if we go back in her IMG days FWIW.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Yes I know. That was years ago.
I can understand her being Brexit. But given she's been inner London MP for years I don't find her right wing Brexit views acceptable.
In her article she never once mentions her own constituents. How to reconcile their Remain views to Brexit. how to have a Brexit that brings the country together. Her attitude is you lost so just live with it. Plus any deal that is a compromise like Mays is to be rejected. She wants hard no deal Brexit. Waving the Union Jack.
And Remainers aren't just the establishment she goes on about.
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happyshopper
Well-Known Member
OK, game on. Faced with the possibility of a snap general election the Labour Party has given all sitting Labour MPs two weeks to indicate whether they wish to be considered for reselection. If Hoey says she doesn't want to be considered, that's it; we've got rid of her. Goodness knows whom we will get instead, but that's another issue.
If she says she does wish to stand again it gets more complicated. It's easier than it was for members to get another candidate, but it's still complicated. There's a process called mandatory reselection (sic) but this is only triggered if either one of two conditions are met. If they aren't met then she just becomes the candidate, although there's what's normally a formal endorsement by the National Executive.
The circumstances in which a full selection process is triggered is if either:
a) more than one third of the local ward based branches say they want a full selection; or
b) more than one third of the organisations that have affiliated branches to the constituency party, i.e. trade union branches, local Co-op Party, etc., say they want a full selection.
My guess is that she has now enraged enough people to ensure that all or almost all ward branches will call for a full selection process. So that's what we will get. But that's not necessarily the end for Hoey, as she has the right to be considered as part of the subsequent selection process.
The selection process itself is also complicated but, essentially, there's nominations, drawing up a short-list and then a vote of the Party members. Again, my guess is that Hoey would not win but I've heard Party members saying that she does still have the support of the less actively engaged members. Given the threat of an election this would all have to take place over the summer.
And it you are not already a member it's probably too late for you to join in.
If she says she does wish to stand again it gets more complicated. It's easier than it was for members to get another candidate, but it's still complicated. There's a process called mandatory reselection (sic) but this is only triggered if either one of two conditions are met. If they aren't met then she just becomes the candidate, although there's what's normally a formal endorsement by the National Executive.
The circumstances in which a full selection process is triggered is if either:
a) more than one third of the local ward based branches say they want a full selection; or
b) more than one third of the organisations that have affiliated branches to the constituency party, i.e. trade union branches, local Co-op Party, etc., say they want a full selection.
My guess is that she has now enraged enough people to ensure that all or almost all ward branches will call for a full selection process. So that's what we will get. But that's not necessarily the end for Hoey, as she has the right to be considered as part of the subsequent selection process.
The selection process itself is also complicated but, essentially, there's nominations, drawing up a short-list and then a vote of the Party members. Again, my guess is that Hoey would not win but I've heard Party members saying that she does still have the support of the less actively engaged members. Given the threat of an election this would all have to take place over the summer.
And it you are not already a member it's probably too late for you to join in.
CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
This extract from The Irish Cedar Lounge Revolution blog in 2008 stunned me!
9. NollaigO - May 1, 2008
Kate Hoey’s political history:
The comments in the above posts on her upbringing are probably accurate. Of interest is the fact that her uncle was a NILP supporter and BBC political commentator, John Cole.
Living in London in the early 1970s she became a vice-president of the NUS.[Jack Straw was NUS president at the time]. Returning from an overseas conference, she found herself sitting next to Tariq Ali on the plane. Tariq persuaded her to join the IMG, which she did in summer 1971. In subsequent years she used to muddy this connection by claiming that she was in the Spartacus League, a short lived youth wing of the IMG. She was never at ease with the Irish Republican Trotskyism of the IMG and was also very inimical to Gery Lawless an IMG member at the time. She felt that having Lawless as a member discredited the IMG. Under the influence of Brian Trench [political influence of course!] she joined the IS in 1972 but her stay there was also limited. She joined Hackney Labour party and supported the Troops Out Movement for a period before becoming a supporter of the BICO front organisation, Campaign for Labour Representation in Northern Ireland. Nowadays the IPR group are quiet hostile to her,dubbing her TallyHoey in a recent article!
Seems Kate Hoey is similar in some ways to Claire Fox and Peter Hitchens in her political journey - though as an MP I would suggest she is ramming her prejudices down her constituents' throats.
Not sure about Gramsci's assertion she is an extreme Unionist. If she is, that represents another volte face from being "Troops Out".
Southlondon
The river's there for a reason
The reason why I and many other members and voters in Vauxhall support Kate I’d because of the way she is always there to support the residents against the excesses of our right wing labour council, and the libdem/Tory imposed austerity. She supports the Lambeth residents being evicted from their communities by the council, redevelopment of estates against the residents wishes, rebelling against the party along with Corbyn abbot etc on benefit cuts, criminalisation of squatting in commercial premises etc etc. When you canvass the estates for her it becomes very apparent where her enormous majority comes from, she is diligent and responsive with constituents case work with a huge proportion being immigration issues. She is a very visible MP and attends residents meetings and single issue groups which is something a lot of MPs neglect. And for me the fact she rebelled and voted against the illegal war in Iraq is another big plus point. I’m one of the 17+ million people who voted to leave the EU so her stance on Brexit is not an issue for me, as we have such a tiny number of Labour politicians that represent the wishes of the 1/3 if labour voters who also voted leave and want leave to mean leave and not be hijjacked by the political elite and their vocal metropolitan supporters
CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
This article by Wayne Asher surprised me. Published in International Socialism - an organ of the SWP - it takes to pieces a lot of the arguments about the validity of the referendum result and how it is interpreted.
Mr Asher goes to great lengths to show that a pro-Brexit position in not logical, and goes against the general wishes of left socialist groups. I assume that means the SWP are remainers, though I had expected they were in favour of Brexit.
Maybe International Socialism the magazine publishes different points of view on Brexit, like the Wetherpoons magazine does, though everyone know Tim Martin is a fanatical Brexiteer?
Anyhow my favourite quote from Waye Asher is this (quoting Lenin): “The fighting party of the advanced class need not fear mistakes. What it should fear is persistence in a mistake, refusal to admit and correct a mistake out of a false sense of shame”
In a hole and still digging: the left and Brexit – International Socialism
Mr Asher goes to great lengths to show that a pro-Brexit position in not logical, and goes against the general wishes of left socialist groups. I assume that means the SWP are remainers, though I had expected they were in favour of Brexit.
Maybe International Socialism the magazine publishes different points of view on Brexit, like the Wetherpoons magazine does, though everyone know Tim Martin is a fanatical Brexiteer?
Anyhow my favourite quote from Waye Asher is this (quoting Lenin): “The fighting party of the advanced class need not fear mistakes. What it should fear is persistence in a mistake, refusal to admit and correct a mistake out of a false sense of shame”
In a hole and still digging: the left and Brexit – International Socialism
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
Asher is an ex-member, the SWP are and were avowedly leave.
There is a semi-official reply - Should the revolutionary left support Remain? – International Socialism & Asher thwen replies to that Socialists and the Leave vote—a (brief) reply to Sean Leahy – International Socialism
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
I looked at the figures for Remain in my Ward Coldharbour one of the poorest in Lambeth. Remain was around 80%.
The idea put about by leave supporters like you that Remainers are part of the metropolitan political elite is not true.
I also do a working class job.
I can assure you the majority of the working class in inner London are Remainers. That is our course those who had the chance to vote. People from other EU countries living here were excluded from the referendum. Despite living here for years. And under EU rules having right to vote here. Yet they were excluded from the referendum. Not able to have a democratic say in something that would affect them personally. So imo that referendum excluded a whole section of the community on purpose.
How is it you can't see that? You live in London.
Second thing is Hoey is no Lexiteer. She is full on flag waving Unionist. And says so.
Hoey is a good constituency MP on Brexit she is letting her constituents down.
And btw ordinary working class people aren't bored by Brexit. Topic comes up at work regularly.
But then like a lot of Londoners I work with people from all different countries.
I can tell you that average working person from Poland, Spain , Czech republic, Germany- to name but a few of the people I meet on a daily basis aren't keen on Brexit.
Saying Remainers are "Metropolitans" has a really nasty edge to it.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
SWP are Brexit. Though in Brixton you wouldn't know that as its something they don't go on about in local Brixton area. Not surprisingly. It wouldnt get them much support here.
Friend of mine , involved in local issues, was at a community meeting in run up to referendum. The Trot present, who they all knew and liked, said he hoped they would all support Brexit. He was met with disbelief.
No one else could understand how anyone on the left could vote for something that UKIP / Farage wanted.
I do try to explain to my friend about Lexit but they couldn't see Brexit as anything but a victory for the right. The nasty anti immigrant right.
I'd say my friend was pretty typical. And my friend was no supporter of the New Labour Council. Or the "elite".
btw in the run up to election the position of Corbyn / McDonnell was reform and remain.
Southlondon
The river's there for a reason
Simple fact is 1.4 million more people voted to leave than remain. You have your experiences I have mine. I am a council Tennant, working class and so are my friends. The majority of my friends are leavers, we are not farage supporters nor racist little englanders but we believe that the EU is an un accountable neoliberal organisation that favours the rich countries of Europe over the poorer ones. We don’t like the idea of the commissioners being appointed by the power of patronage in the same way our upper house is appointed. We don’t like the idea of creating another super power in the world and I personally believe in people’s right to self determination be they the Irish, the Scots, English, Catalonians, Or any region that wishes to be independent, so I am not a unionist. In fact I have always been an ardent supporter of Irish republicans and their demand for a united ireland somewhat different to Kate’s views on ireland. But I have been a Labour Party activist since I was 15, and I have never had such a hard working and supportive MP when it comes to the day to day issues affecting my neighbors, and the fact that 1/3 of labour voters have only a tiny handful of labour MPs to speak for them means I am even more satisfied that kate is sticking to her long held and very public support for Brexit. People that would see the party purged of leaver MPs must understand that if that was to succeed we would disappear in the poorer post industrial constituencies as we have in Scotland
CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
Do you think this sentence is correct? Scotland being a Remain voting region, it doesn't make sense to blame Labour extinction in Scotland on purging Brexit leaning MPs does it?
If you wanted to be kind to Labour you might say that the strongest Scottish MPs were deployed in the UK government 1997-2010, and they took their eye of the ball in Scotland.
Plus by all accounts there were lots of divisions and recriminations in Scottish Labour after they lost power nationally.
Brexit wasn't an issue in England either until Cameron put it on the table because of defections to UKIP - Douglas Carswell in Clacton and Mark Reckless in Rochester and Strood.
As regards your other analysis - since believing in the EU or hating the EU are gut reactions or tribal loyalties, what you say is your point of view.
You might as well say it about Millwall or Dulwich Hamlet.
Southlondon
The river's there for a reason
Of course it’s my view I don’t claim it to be anything other. What I was trying to say about Scotland was that labour lost its relevance in that country, and if it becomes a total remain party and MPs like Kate are deselected, people in the traditional labour heartlands of the north and West Midlands etc who predominantly voted leave will be left without any Labour MPs to represent their views. Then my guess is we will become irrelevant to them. I was also trying to make the point that just because I ageee with someone’s Brexit position doesn’t mean I agree with all their politics beyond Brexit. It’s all just my opinion but it’s reflected in a lot of the people I hang with who are neither unionists or right wing tories.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
So you didn't object to the EU citizens from other countries resident here not having a vote in the referendum?
Southlondon
The river's there for a reason
CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
I think this is a breach of civil rights. Just as it was a breach of civil rights that many councils including Lambeth failed to process European UK resident voters for the Euro election.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
This doesn't surprise me.
You know if the EU was as bad as you say and you had put your arguments to other EU nationals living here they could have voted leave. Been swayed by the Lexit argument and voted leave. After all I hear plenty of criticism of the EU from my Spanish and Italian friends. Which is all valid.
There is a whole lot of things wrong with the EU. Mainly the Euro and imposition of austerity on countries like Greece. The Euro is a total disaster for ordinary people.
This country was not in Euro. I think we should have stayed and fought for reform. The position of Corbyn / McDonnell in the referendum.
But the thing is all Brexit supporters knew that the people from other EU countries resident here were likely to vote Remain. So best that they were excluded from the referendum vote. It was gerrymandering. If EU nationals had been thought to be likely to vote Brexit they would have got a vote. Its that cynical.
Far from referendum result being positive change Im now thinking there is nothing positive about it.
My local community is suffering from Tory Austerity which has nothing to do with the EU. All this Brexit stuff means my mainly working class community has no voice.
Brexit as CH1 says was about Tory party losing votes to UKIP. Whole of the Brexit was pushed by the right. It never was about Lexit.
Personally I feel Corbyn is in an impossible position. He is getting it from the likes of right of party and also ( see letter from 25 MPs) getting it from Northern MPs telling him not to back Remain.
The split in this country isn't simple. In inner London the working class are Remain. This isn't the same in other parts of the country. Like my home town Plymouth. The working class is split on Brexit. As are the middle class. I just don't meet people in inner London who are Brexit. I can count the number of people I meet who are Brexit on my hand.
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littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Maybe. Lambeth had the largest percentage remain in the country in the referendum, aside from Gibraltar. So you'd expect a big swing to the libdems. I doubt Hoey had that much to do with it. There was also a big swing to them in Haringey, for instance, where the staunch remainer David Lammy is one of the MPs.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Chuka was always Remain as was Lambeth Labour led Council. The Labour led Council in Lambeth have publicly said they want "People's Vote". At recent Council by election they still almost lost Council seat to LDs.
Voters look at national party then decide. Whatever Lambeth Labour Cllrs say does not register.
Its why Labour party Remainers get worked up about the leadership.
TBH as I keep saying I think Corbyn can't win on this. Whatever he does he's going to get stick.
Puddy_Tat
naturally fluffy
Think even the tories under cameron positioned themselves (or at least pretended to) to the left of new labour on some issues - id cards for example
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
I agree.
i was cycling through Myatts Fields this morning and the Traffic Wardens were out. They all have "Civil Enforcement Officer" on the back of their uniform.
This goes back to the days of Blunkett and New Labour early days. His idea was that traffic wardens would be custodians of enforcing "citizenship". Giving on the spot fines to "citizens" for heinous crimes like dropping litter.
That was silently dropped. But the name still lives on in Lambeth traffic wardens.
Whilst at the same time New Labour was relaxed about the filthy rich.
Neo Liberalism plus Social Control that was New Labour.
Puddy_Tat
naturally fluffy
or was it silently introduced? merton council (allegedly labour, not sure if the policy was brought in under a tory administration) and bromley council (always tory since the stone age) among others have litter wardens (or whatever they are called)
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
I have seen it in the City.
Blunkett "Civil Enforcement Officer" idea went with his support of ID cards. Which were not just straightforward ID cards but what he called "entitlement" cards one would have to swipe , for example, whenever one went to doctor.
It was all about greater surveillance of the less well off.
Funnily enough one party state China is picking up on these ideas.
thebackrow
Considerably more Brixton.
I'm sure I've seen 'litter officers' fining people outside Brixton tube - for a period last year maybe? - but haven't seen them in a while now. Litter in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia
It's clearly an offence, it's socially undesirable and cleaning up after people who are too lazy or arrogant to put their rubbish in a bin sucks up council resources that could be spent on something socially worthwhile. What's the issue?
Southlondon
The river's there for a reason
Absolutely right. And it’s not actually a fine, it’s an opportunity to pay a fixed penalty or they can if they choose ignore that and go to court instead if they wish to fight it. Local authorities would not normally have a dedicated force of litter wardens, but more likely they are officers from environment enforcement departments that deal with issues like fly tipping and street trading etc who will be deployed to a littering ‘hotspot, in response to complaints from residents. It’s like illegal parking or low level motoring offences. Education and awareness alone won’t clear antisocial behaviour unless there’s the threat of some sort of penalty. Easy to avoid. Don’t drop litter on our streets
