How are we going to get rid of Kate Hoey

[Southlondon]

Kate Hoey

Vauxhall parliamentary constituency - Election 2017

As a comparison Chuka:

Streatham parliamentary constituency - Election 2017

Bigger increase for Chuka.

Kate got 3.6% increase. LDs got 13.7% increase in her constituency. Which I put down to her Brexit views losing her bigger vote which Chuka got.

Chuka got 15.5% increase. All other parties lost votes in his constituency.

She still had a majority twice the size of the LibDem total vote, plus the LibDems made it a national target seat and swamped Vauxhall with activists, whilst Vauxhall Labour activists went into Battersea and Southwark. She is one of the few MPs who genuinely does have a massive personal vote

 

[butchersapron]

She still had a majority twice the size of the LibDem total vote, plus the LibDems made it a national target seat and swamped Vauxhall with activists, whilst Vauxhall Labour activists went into Battersea and Southwark. She is one of the few MPs who genuinely does have a massive personal vote

She'd be better off up north. May stand a chance

 

[tim]

Friend of mine in London originally from up North told me she can't talk to her relatives in Yorkshire about Brexit. Her exact words "its a bit racist up North".

She isn't the only one I've heard this from.

I love your use of the old "friend of mine from up North" story, to justify your own prejudices.

 

[redsquirrel]

Surely this is what our Prime Minister has been banging the drum for these last three years - despite her own failure to implement a fair immigration policy as Home Secretary (hostile environment/Windrush generation etc etc). In her view the priority of the "British People" (as expressed in the EU referendum) was to control EU immigration.

Maybe it's just because I'm tired but I'm struggling to understand your point. Polls have show a strong majority of people in the UK want more restrictive immigration controls. That majority will include both people that voted leave and people that voted remain.

 

[CH1]

I love your use of the old "friend of mine from up North" story, to justify your own prejudices.

"Up North" is incredibly diverse.

There is the mega-University city of Manchester (also the twin HQ of the BBC) where they are as Remain as Streatham.

Then you have places like Burnley and Oldham with a history of community segregation and riots. Not to mention the so-called Rotherham grooming gangs. These places tend to favour extreme politics - George Galloway in Bradford for 3 years 2012-2015 for example. They're also likely to favour UKIP/BNP/BREXIT.

Then again you have the Cumbria and Lake District which don't seem to make it into the headlines.

Then there is the overseas worker grudge. Stoke on Trent has been a UKIP hotspot, not to mention Lincolnshire where the use of EU labour in agriculture seems to have provoked serious hostility.

It should also be noted that the government refugee dispersal policy means a lot of refugees are not housed in London and end up in places like Stoke.

Not sure what the real answer is to EU workers picking the sprouts. Especially as this has been going on for years. Are the allegedly feckless British youths to be trained and coerced into sprout picking - against their wishes? Is this really a case of if you can't shit, get off the pot?

"An old friend of mine" was telling me about the Amazon fulfilment centre in Gourock (a rural location near Glasgow). Apparently this warehouse runs on EU migrant labour, who are happy to sleep in cars and camper vans out in the car park. We don't know whether this exploitation enrages the people of Glasgow who benefit from it - but it seems likely that Glaswegians don't wiosh to commute to Gourock to work in the Amazon warehouse for minimum wage - or they would be doing it.

Anyhow I think people ought to think about defining which part of up north they mean. Otherwise how can we have a meaningful discussion?

 

[CH1]

Maybe it's just because I'm tired but I'm struggling to understand your point. Polls have show a strong majority of people in the UK want more restrictive immigration controls. That majority will include both people that voted leave and people that voted remain.

But not Tim Martin of Wetherspoons - performing outside Parliament today.

 

[Gramsci]

I love your use of the old "friend of mine from up North" story, to justify your own prejudices.

Rather than listen to opinion polls I chat to people and see what they think.

Its not my prejudices.

In London I know several people who are from "up North" who can't talk to their relatives in the North about Brexit.

Also my brother in Plymouth, a Remainer in Brexit area, whose totally frustrated by it.

 

[Gramsci]

But not Tim Martin of Wetherspoons - performing outside Parliament today.

Was he there? I've got some time for him. He is the libertarian right of Brexit. Not UKIP.

I was around Parliament Square when all the Union Jack wavers were there. Bemused foreign tourists were wondering why roads closed off. I felt somewhat ashamed of this country.

 

[Gramsci]

I love your use of the old "friend of mine from up North" story, to justify your own prejudices.

Part of my "prejudices" might be to do with my everyday life.

This morning Council had the builders in my flat. So chatting to the Romanians. My partner left for work-Spanish.

Stop at cafe on way to work- Italians.

Go to work. Deal with security guards. None are from UK. Chatting to the East European receptionist at one office. Helping my friend the Pakastani van driver.

Stop at my local convenience store on way home. Chat to the Polish women I know who works there.

That's my life in central London.

Most of my day in London is spent with recent migrants or second generation.

Brexit came up today. We were saying how crap it was.

 

[Gramsci]

She still had a majority twice the size of the LibDem total vote, plus the LibDems made it a national target seat and swamped Vauxhall with activists, whilst Vauxhall Labour activists went into Battersea and Southwark. She is one of the few MPs who genuinely does have a massive personal vote

Quite honestly do you think her views on Brexit are progressive?

She is not a Lexit supporter.

She has made it quite clear what her views on immigration and being patriotic are. They aren't that different from the DUP.

 

[CH1]

Was he there? I've got some time for him. He is the libertarian right of Brexit. Not UKIP.

I was around Parliament Square when all the Union Jack wavers were there. Bemused foreign tourists were wondering why roads closed off. I felt somewhat ashamed of this country.

He was there - there was a long distance shot of him on stage on TV but they didn't report what he said.

I'm reporting his views based on several Question Time appearances plus interviews on Newsnight, Radio 4 news etc.

And of course I had the "pleasure" of hearing him hold forth in the Beehive last year. Unlike some of the early morning drinkers, I was strictly on coffee, so I believe I got a fairly accurate impression.

Regarding the demonstrators today Georgina Stubbs from Press Association tweeted this about Yaxley-Lennons crowd harassing Channel 4 News people.

 

[Gramsci]

I usually really like your posts and views Gramsci but I have to challenge you on this one.

I'm sort of in the same boat as your mate (Northerner in London) but I know loads of people in the North including Yorkshire who voted remain and vice versa (London people who voted Leave). IIRC Manchester, Liverpool and certainly my hometown of York voted Remain.

I don't think that making it so binary really helps. What your mate has said is as divisive as people up North going on about the London metropolitan bubble as if just by living here we all voted Remain to keep up the supply of prosecco and Brie. And people in London etc. portraying people further north than Potters Bar as uneducated racists...it's for these reasons that the country is becoming horribly divided and some of that attitude is some of the reason why people voted Leave.

As for 'it's a bit racist up North'... well I don't even know where to begin.

Its also why some Londoners I know eventually voted Remain. One I know wasnt sure. Bumped into him after referendum. He told me in last week run up to referendum be decided to vote Remain. It was UKIP and people banging on about immigration that made him vote Remain.

So it worked both ways. Im not that keen on EU. But it appears to forgotten that UKIP / Tory right were pushing Brexit.

One of the things I objected to about the referendum is that the three million EU nationals didn't get a say. Some of them have been here for years.

My Polish friend had been her for ten years. As far as I'm concerned she is part of UK community. A decision gets taken which affects her future yet she to no say in it.

Take your point not everyone outside London voted leave. My brother is Remainer in Plymouth.I looked at breakdown of Plymouth vote and it was majority leave but some part of Plymouth were remain. So it was mixed picture on closer look. So take your criticism on that one.

Its that after two years nothing has been done to make decision that can bring leavers and Remainers together.

I also think this has split people in ways not seen before.

I have friends in Lambeth who went on march last Saturday. To my surprise. As Im not sure a second vote is good idea. They are way to left of New Labour. Not difficult in Lambeth. The left is split. The kind of people I know in Brixton who one would think are basically left are all Remainers.

I can only think of one I know and he is Lexit.

I think the country is becoming more divided. I could have lived with a Brexit that didn't give my East European friends a hard time for example. Its not going to happen.

Going back to Hoey. As Brexit MP in Remainer London she's done nothing to listen and try and bring Remainers and Brexit together.

 

[ash]

Part of my "prejudices" might be to do with my everyday life.

This morning Council had the builders in my flat. So chatting to the Romanians. My partner left for work-Spanish.

Stop at cafe on way to work- Italians.

Go to work. Deal with security guards. None are from UK. Chatting to the East European receptionist at one office. Helping my friend the Pakastani van driver.

Stop at my local convenience store on way home. Chat to the Polish women I know who works there.

That's my life in central London.

Most of my day in London is spent with recent migrants or second generation.

Brexit came up today. We were saying how crap it was.

Me too xx

 

[tim]

Part of my "prejudices" might be to do with my everyday life.

This morning Council had the builders in my flat. So chatting to the Romanians. My partner left for work-Spanish.

Stop at cafe on way to work- Italians.

Go to work. Deal with security guards. None are from UK. Chatting to the East European receptionist at one office. Helping my friend the Pakastani van driver.

Stop at my local convenience store on way home. Chat to the Polish women I know who works there.

That's my life in central London.

Most of my day in London is spent with recent migrants or second generation.

Brexit came up today. We were saying how crap it was.

"It's a bit racist up North". Strikes me as being a bit racist. It's a cliché that says so much about your attitudes and little about the people you sneer and seek to "other".

 

[Gramsci]

What oryx said

Yes it is, like the dismissal of millions of people living in the north as racists is much more than annoying.
"Left behind"* communities can be found all over the UK.

People from all over the UK voted for Leave, even in London you had a Leave vote of 40%. And they voted Leave for all kinds of reasons.

There are strong majorities in this country for more restrictive immigration policies (and the size of those majorities indicates that they must include significant numbers of Remain voters). There are also strong majorities that are appalled by the Windrush scandal (and again the size means there must be Leave voters in this majority), even though it was the former that led to the latter.

The catagorisation of people that have voted Leave, who are concerned about the impact of immigration, who have voted UKIP as racists has only benefitted the hard-right. A small minority of people are ideological racists, the rest of us, whether we voted leave, remain or abstained, cannot and should not be categorised as racist or not racist.

*hate that phrase, these communities weren't left behind they were systematically attacked.

London the vote was over 70% for Remain in the inner city boroughs like Lambeth. It grew less the further out the borough went.

So my patch inner London was overwhelmingly Remain.

Not a surprise to me. On my local estate majority are Black British. Second generation immigrants. Inner London, despite gentrification , still has large working class communities in social housing.

Agree on your definition of Left Behind.

On UKIP voters. The perspective of an Afro Carribbean working class guy whose father came here in 60s to Brixton is another view. I was talking to him in run up to referendum. His view of UKIP was that it was the NF wearing blazers. He grew up in Brixton in 70s. London then was not such a tolerant place. He was ok in Brixton venture out and might encounter racism.

He told me he thought the way people were raising concerns about immigration now was the same as directed at his father's generation.

Back then it was the NF recently it was UKIP.

From his perspective as working class Black British person a vote for UKIP is a racist vote.

Back post war it was easy for Commonwealth citizens to come here. Concerns about immigration led to the relative free movement of Commonwealth citizens to be restricted. He saw that complaints about Poles etc would lead to similar restrictions. Which they have.

 

[Gramsci]

"It's a bit racist up North". Strikes me as being a bit racist. It's a cliché that says so much about your attitudes and little about the people you sneer and seek to "other".

I was recounting a conversation I had with someone I know originally from the North.

Actually two conversations as another receptionist I know said the same.

 

[Treacle Toes]

I was recounting a conversation I had with someone I know originally from the North.

Actually two conversations as another receptionist I know said the same.

Wookey was using the very same argument a couple of weeks ago to excuse himself for apologism of an idiot who described those of us who are BAME as having 'a funny tinge' so I wouldn't worry about defending your recounting of such ideas.

 

[Wookey]

Wookey was using the very same argument a couple of weeks ago to excuse himself for apologism of an idiot who described those of us who are BAME as having 'a funny tinge' so I wouldn't worry about defending your recounting of such ideas.

Just remember, your opinions of racism are no more or less valid than mine.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Just remember, your opinions of racism are no more or less valid than mine.

...you, just fit to bursting with experiences of racism and dealing with it. Right. I'll just remember what an arse you are. There's a start.

 

[Wookey]

...you, just fit to bursting with experiences of racism and dealing with it. Right. I'll just remember what an arse you are. There's a start.

There's no need to try and be offensive. I'm not your enemy.

 

[Treacle Toes]

There's no need to try and be offensive. I'm not your enemy.

Demonstrating that you have little to no actual experiences of racism yet think you can lecture on it isn't trying to be offensive, it's pointing out the bloody obvious.

 

[Wookey]

Demonstrating that you have little to no actual experiences of racism yet think you can lecture on it isn't trying to be offensive, it's pointing out the bloody obvious.

We were talking about a white woman at the time, who had clumsily tried to cover up racist language. I happen to have one of those as a mother, so I speak from direct experience of a lifetime of living with someone very like the person we were discussing.

I think you assume far too much of my life experience to be making statements like the above, about a stranger on the internet.

And yours isn't the only experience of racism, or opinion on it, that's valid. That's pointing out the bloody obvious, and yet you seem to quite forcefully reject that notion. I just thought I'd remind you.

I'm not lecturing you, and never have. That's your interpretation. I don't expect you to listen to me at all! In fact, you are more than welcome to ignore everything I ever say, forever more!

But please don't call me out on a thread I am not taking part in, with your rudeness and your inexactitude, ever again.

 

[Treacle Toes]

We were talking about a white woman at the time, who had clumsily tried to cover up racist language. I happen to have one of those as a mother, so I speak from direct experience of a lifetime of living with someone very like the person we were discussing.

Referring to people who aren't White as being a funny tinge isn't clumsy language, it's dodgy as fuck and racism...Whether your mother is/was that way inclined is irrelevant. It's still what it is.

I think you assume far too much of my life experience to be making statements like the above, about a stranger on the internet.

And yours isn't the only experience of racism, or opinion on it, that's valid. That's pointing out the bloody obvious, and yet you seem to quite forcefully reject that notion. I just thought I'd remind you.

I've not assumed much at all, i've reflected the very things you have posted and given away. If you had more experiences other than your mother you'd have whipped them out as evidence of your almighty credentials before now, especially on that other thread you made a massive tit of yourself. But you don't.. you just think having a parent who to you didn't realise that she had internalised racism and said bigoted things meant that no harm was or is being done.

You were very clear in your assertion that the North is a bit racist hence you being tagged here.

 

[Wookey]

Referring to people who aren't White as being a funny tinge isn't clumsy language, it's dodgy as fuck and racism...Whether your mother is/was that way inclined is irrelevant. It's still what it is.

And I'm lecturing you?

I didn't say it was clumsy language, please take the time to read again. I said she clumsily tried to cover up racist language. That's something that some perfectly normal people do every day, because they're imbued with an inherited societal racism which they know to be wrong, yet which nonetheless continues as an ingrained attitude and needs to be challenged internally (by thinking), and acted upon externally (by not speaking or acting on it).

The woman in question has a deeply inherited concept of racial otherness. Millions of people do I think, and even if they say they aren't racist, that doesn't dissolve all those taught, social level racist responses that many white people are brought up with from birth, and who are later educated into a more informed perspective.

If you had more experiences other than your mother you'd have whipped them out as evidence of your almighty credentials before now, especially on that other thread you made a massive tit of yourself. But you don't.. you just think having a parent who to you didn't realise that she had internalised racism and said bigoted things meant that no harm was or is being done.

I wouldn't have whipped anything out for you. I'm not that kind of guy.

Really Rutita1 , you have no idea of the rich tapestry of my life and family, just the tiny slices I might put on here that you clearly misunderstand at the time, half-remember and then squeeze into your somewhat one-dimensional pre-formed narrative. You're assuming, perhaps because I'm a white man, what my experience is. That's narrow-minded. And I'm not going to "evidence my credentials" in order to have a valid opinion on racism. That's just offensive.

You were very clear in your assertion that the North is a bit racist hence you being tagged here.

I have no idea what this thread is about, I wouldn't read a thread with "Hoey" in the title, as the woman brings me out in hives.

 

[Gramsci]

Getting back to the thread.

Kate on her Twitter proudly said she was at the Brexit demo last Friday:



I saw some of this. It was UKIP flag wavers and the far right who she is associating with. Appaling for an inner London MP to do this.

 

[Gramsci]

wrong post

 

[RoyReed]

 

[Gramsci]

Looking at the Twitter account it looks like the Progress/ New Labour party of Lambeth Labour.

Its why I think the whole Brexit thing is a disaster.

I loathe New Labour / Progress but also I'm against Brexit.

Brexit imo has not only divided the country its done it in ways that disrupt the traditional left / right divide.

See it here on Urban politics boards.

Interestingly on Brixton Forum its something we don't really argue about. We hate each other on gentrification issues. On Brexit , as in Lambeth generally, most aren't in favour of Brexit.

 

[Tolpuddle]

https://brexitcentral.com/we-should...success-and-include-them-in-the-negotiations/

Thanks Kate.

 

[Pickman's model]

https://brexitcentral.com/we-should...success-and-include-them-in-the-negotiations/

Thanks Kate.

this would be the brexit party backed by about 1/8 of the electorate