Hold your nose and vote Labour?

[Pickman's model]

Media personality, The Right Honourable David Lammy PC FRSA MP, explains his organisation's source of inspiration:

Margaret Thatcher was a ‘visionary’ says Labour’s David Lammy

I think he's fucked any residual illusions in labour held by irish nationalists of all stripes resident in the uk

 

[GarveyLives]

Sir Keir Starmer KCB KC MP really should note that some people are not the "gullible simpletons" that he considers them to be:

Why should Black people vote Labour?

"Sir Keir Starmer’s adviser on race relations has accused the Labour leader of failing to listen to her in a speech that highlights rising frustration over the party’s relationship with black voters, The Times can reveal ..."

(Source: as stated in image)​

Keir Starmer is not listening to me, says Labour race adviser

 

[prunus]

I want to say thank you those who’ve engaged me on this thread, as a result of which I realise I have something to think about.

I am wondering if my stance might be not born of a rational moral and political position, but rather is an emotional response generated by my lifelong loathing of the tories, magnified as it is by the utterly despicable nature of the current and recent lot, and by my fear of what damage they will do if they’re allowed another chance, especially as coming back from where they are now might I fear embolden them to feel they can do what the fuck they like and not suffer any consequences (not an unreasonable fear I think).

Anyway, emotional responses, while undeniably powerful, can risk leading one in the wrong direction (even while those same emotions convince you you’re doing the right thing). So I am going to try to re-examine from as dispassionate a viewpoint as I can muster.

Thank you again.

 

[hitmouse]

Thatcher was a visionary. Her vision of the future was terrifying, but you can’t deny that she had one.

John Hinckley Jr undoubtedly had a vision, but for some reason you don't get Lammy giving speeches about his plan to impress Jodie Foster by shooting Biden, or indeed Sunak. Inclusively.

 

[Pickman's model]

John Hinckley Jr undoubtedly had a vision, but for some reason you don't get Lammy giving speeches about his plan to impress Jodie Foster by shooting Biden, or indeed Sunak. Inclusively.

Let him shoot some more

 

[_Russ_]

Hitler was a visionary, its no more a term of endearment than saying someone had strength of character

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Even Owen Jones has given up on holding his nose.

The Labour party is in my blood. Here’s why I’ve just cancelled my membership | Owen Jones

My ancestors could always point to Labour policies that transformed ordinary lives. I cannot say the same, says Guardian columnist Owen Jones

www.theguardian.com

This group he's supporting seems a bit opaque -- anyone heard of them?

Sign Up | We Deserve Better

Despairing about politics? Donate now to turn it all around. The Tories are toast. Let's send Labour a message.

wedeservebetter.uk

 

[Sue]

View attachment 416795

Not even just a mailing list. A 'give us your money' thing while telling you practically nothing about who they are etc.

 

[The39thStep]

Hitler was a visionary, its no more a term of endearment than saying someone had strength of character

Have you thought of putting ‘Hitler was a visionary’ on a poster in a window in your gaff facing the street? Just to test the ‘no more a term of endearment’ theory?

 

[redsquirrel]

I am wondering if my stance might be not born of a rational moral and political position, but rather is an emotional response generated by my lifelong loathing of the tories, magnified as it is by the utterly despicable nature of the current and recent lot, and by my fear of what damage they will do if they’re allowed another chance, especially as coming back from where they are now might I fear embolden them to feel they can do what the fuck they like and not suffer any consequences (not an unreasonable fear I think).

Anyway, emotional responses, while undeniably powerful, can risk leading one in the wrong direction (even while those same emotions convince you you’re doing the right thing). So I am going to try to re-examine from as dispassionate a viewpoint as I can muster.

Just wanted to say that you are not alone in this by any means.

I live in a safe Labour seat and my votes for Labour in 2017 and 2019 were motivated by emotion rather than political logic.
In 2017 I was pleased by the most social democratic manifesto that has been seen during my voting life, and in 2019 just so opposed to the shits on the Labour right and what they would do (have done) that I took five minutes to cast a vote. In both cases I knew this less any sort of effective action than it was more about me.

I also don't think it is a terrible thing to put emotions into politics, so long as we try to recognise it when we do so. After all we are humans.

 

[_Russ_]

Have you thought of putting ‘Hitler was a visionary’ on a poster in a window in your gaff facing the street? Just to test the ‘no more a term of endearment’ theory?

Have you thought about not being a dick just for laughs?

 

[Pickman's model]

Have you thought about not being a dick just for laughs?

have you thought?

 

[Pickman's model]

Have you thought of putting ‘Hitler was a visionary’ on a poster in a window in your gaff facing the street? Just to test the ‘no more a term of endearment’ theory?

he could get feedback on what people think of the poster by stacking half bricks outside his window

 

[tommers]

I think if you say somebody is a visionary then it goes beyond just saying they have a plan for the future, I think there is some element of approval there too.

 

[brogdale]

Getting back to Thatcher, she was the opposite of the visionary that Reeves valorises. She was merely the second in a long line of Prime Ministers who increasingly did exactly what neoliberal financialised capital told them to do.

 

[andysays]

Getting back to Thatcher, she was the opposite of the visionary that Reeves valorises. She was merely the second in a long line of Prime Ministers who increasingly did exactly what neoliberal financialised capital told them to do.

I think there's a bit more to it than that.

No ever talks about "Callaghanism" now, do they?

 

[Pickman's model]

I think there's a bit more to it than that.

No ever talks about "Callaghanism" now, do they?

it's to the left of corbynism

 

[JimW]

Wasn't it Keith Joseph and a merry band of monetarists won her over to true believer status for that St Perelman Society or whatever it was called?

 

[Pickman's model]

Wasn't it Keith Joseph and a merry band of monetarists won her over to true believer status for that St Perelman Society or whatever it was called?

soon after her election as leader of the tory party in 1975 she met hayek The Man Whose Powerful Critique of Socialism Influenced Margaret Thatcher

 

[JimW]

soon after her election as leader of the tory party in 1975 she met hayek The Man Whose Powerful Critique of Socialism Influenced Margaret Thatcher

That's what I was struggling to recall.

 

[brogdale]

I think there's a bit more to it than that.

No ever talks about "Callaghanism" now, do they?

Exactly; his administration were told exactly what to do; they complied with the ‘structural adjustment plan’ of the IMF and, in effect, represented the UK’s first monetarist administration.

 

[YouSir]

Not even just a mailing list. A 'give us your money' thing while telling you practically nothing about who they are etc.

Aye, not the most impressive plan I've ever seen. Points in the right direction though I think, there are seats independents can win and focusing money on them makes a lot more sense than launching yet another new national party to add to the giant stew of forgotten names.

 

[magneze]

Apparently it's all going to be fine: For the birds? Far from it. At last Rachel Reeves has given Britain a plan for economic liftoff | Will Hutton

Time will tell I guess.

 

[Dystopiary]

Apparently it's all going to be fine: For the birds? Far from it. At last Rachel Reeves has given Britain a plan for economic liftoff | Will Hutton

Time will tell I guess.

I left the Bayes Business School after Reeves’s lecture upbeat and encouraged.

He wouldn't say that if there was any likelihood he'd need to claim benefits.

[Labour] might, just might, be the government that feasibly and practically triggers the much-needed investment revolution, lowers inequality and revives the green agenda. Reeves does get it, only is careful and subtle about her response.

Dear God.

 

[PTK]

it's to the left of corbynism

Not of foreign policy. Callaghan was pro-NATO.

 

[PTK]

Reeves and Lammy could have said that Attlee was a visionary, if they were looking to name a Prime Minister under whom the economy grew. But they did not. They did not because they reject the post-war social democratic settlement. They endorse instead the neo-liberal settlelement that massively weakened the relative position of the working class.

 

[brogdale]

Reeves and Lammy could have said that Attlee was a visionary, if they were looking to name a Prime Minister under whom the economy grew. But they did not. They did not because they reject the post-war social democratic settlement. They endorse instead the neo-liberal settlelement that massively weakened the relative position of the working class.

Yep, just more cunts

 

[_Russ_]

Not forgetting we now have a cunt as head of Welsh Labour, there seems to be a diminishing choice of non-cuntish politicians to vote for

 

[Silas Loom]

Reeves and Lammy could have said that Attlee was a visionary, if they were looking to name a Prime Minister under whom the economy grew. But they did not. They did not because they reject the post-war social democratic settlement. They endorse instead the neo-liberal settlelement that massively weakened the relative position of the working class.

How many voters have detailed memories of the Attlee administration?

 

[GarveyLives]

It has now been reported that shortly before the abandonment of the Labour Party's pledge to spend £28bn a year on 'green investment', the shadow chancellor’s office accepted a financial donation from The Lord Donoughue (also known as Bernard Donoughue), a former director of The Global Warming Policy Foundation, 55 Tufton Street, London, SW1P 3QL:

Rachel Reeves accepted donation from climate sceptic days before dropping £28bn pledge

The latest from Sir Keir Starmer KCB KC MP and his boss, Morgan McSweeney:

"Labour leader Keir Starmer, shadow chancellor Rachel Reeves, and four other senior party figures met with a major media and financial information conglomerate weeks after it donated £150,000 to the party – sparking concerns of “cash for access” from transparency campaigners ..."

(Source: Sunday Times)​

Labour in ‘cash for access’ scandal over meetings with £150,000 donor