Funnily enough, most of the reports from the day of ticketless fans, drunk fans etc came from cops. The overwhelming majority of eyewitness accounts from non-police sources can't remember much of this at all.
Now why do you suppose that should be?
Hillsborough: What Really Happened?
- Thread starter butchersapron
- Start date
Funnily enough, most of the reports from the day of ticketless fans, drunk fans etc came from cops. The overwhelming majority of eyewitness accounts from non-police sources can't remember much of this at all.
Now why do you suppose that should be?
Oh, and on this point, the late Lord Justice Taylor begs to disagree with you
Donna Ferentes
jubliado
Donna Ferentes
jubliado
incidentally i know people who got to the ground at 2pm and they had to queue for 10 minutes to get in because the crowd was already starting to build up then. The crush outside the ground had nothing to do with people turning up late;it was down to several thousand people not being streamed/directed properly and having to get in through 3 turnstiles.
I ant any anonymous internet commenter, my name is Mark Mozaz Wallis I lived on Kelvin Flats a 10 Min brisk walk, 15 if you are going slow from the ground, I was there from 2 0 Clock I watched from Kelvin Flats, at 3 0 clock I went down the lift, to there Gatefield pub, to help me mother close for the afternoon, I got there at 10 past three, by 3.30pm the news was coming through.
As said me Mother left open the pub, and people on there way to the game had one or two drinks, this was the same for all the pubs in the area, not one of the landlords or workers report of any drunken fans.
Neither do people talk of people storming the ground, who live and still live near the ground, but of the police pushing people into the ground, a close friend of mine who dose not to this date desire to be named, asked a police man on horse back, to fucking open the gates, as they will be a crush and dead people, they refused.
I have known him all my life, we are still friends and he shall be with me On Wednesday as we remember those killed by the inaction of the police, the utter refusal for them to act before and during the crush lead to deaths this is not me just saying this but Lord Taylor, and countless people in the crush, and outside the ground.
This also comes from a former Abalance worker, and people living near the ground on the day, it is very deeply offensive for you to suggest there was drunken fans, there was a storming of the ground, this comes from someone who is not anonymous internet commenter, but someone who lived near the ground and found themselves involved not through choice but common humanity towards those involved, it shall never leave me.
Donna Ferentes
jubliado
No, I'll take it up with you. This is a serious matter: many many people died in dreadful circumstances and the question of culpability is important. So you don't just dig up anything you can find and say "look at this, it's relevant".
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
And you found them to be worthy enough to post up here?.
Donna Ferentes
jubliado
Having listened to Neil Fitzmaurice's account I think I understand a little better what must have been happening at the back. There must, I think, still have been plenty of people in the tunnel who would have had no idea what was going on - and because they were there, there was nowhere to go.
5t3IIa
Registered User
Not to be facaecious but that's what happend at G20. Lots of people getting riot sheilds in the neck, not because they were surging on purpose but because the people at the back had no idea what was going on.
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/group.php?gid=2221701349
i fucking hate the sun newspaper
on facebook
i fucking hate the sun newspaper
on facebook
Donna Ferentes
jubliado
Oh absolutely. And the same thing could happen in any situation with a moving crowd anywhere in the world. It could easily happen on the London Underground or at the Albert Hall. The same thing could happen for the same reasons but the press coverage would in those instances be a little different.
Yes I did.
As I said before I remember the event but not the details so I started searching out stories when I found the link in my post.
It has comments from people who say they were eye witnesses to the behaviour of the fans so it's relevant to the thread.
You may not like it or argue that they are liars but it's still a valid thing to post.
I make no comment either way as I wasn't there and my memory on the subject is poor.
As I said before. If you don't like it, take it up with the star.
thing is, I'd be fucking shocked if a football match had started without some people being pissed. The point however, is that according to Lord Justice Taylor's report and every established fact about the afternoon, this was not a contributory factor. Once you're familiar with the ground lay out, the evidence of CCTV and the eyewitness accounts of people at the turnstiles this is self evident
Donna Ferentes
jubliado
No, it's not. You don't just post any old shit you feel like just because somebody somewhere said it. That's why, for instance, 9/11 and Stormfront stuff doesn't get on these boards. You have a think about whether it's reasonable or not before you post.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I suppose we should be thankful that it's only derf this year - i hope that represents some form of progress.
Voley
🐀
This is an awful issue to take a deliberately contrary position on, derf.
By your own admission you're ignorant of the facts so why not do a bit of proper research before wading in. Comments on The Star's website aren't generally thought of as a hugely reliable source.
Today 96 people who died are being remembered, derf.
It's quite possibly the worst day to be repeating the lies, don't you think?
By your own admission you're ignorant of the facts so why not do a bit of proper research before wading in. Comments on The Star's website aren't generally thought of as a hugely reliable source.
Today 96 people who died are being remembered, derf.
It's quite possibly the worst day to be repeating the lies, don't you think?
Do you actually read posts?
I'm not taking a position as I have made it very clear that my memory of these events is far too weak.
The thread is a conversation as to the causes of the terrible events of that day an the sad deaths of fans.
Regardless of anything else it's very clear that the people that died were all sensible people who arrived early and were not guilty of any wrongdoing.
While trying to gat more information as to causes I found a newspaper web site with comments from people who claim to be eye witnesses to the events.
I have no idea if these people are telling the truth or talking bollocks.
I have no idea if they have their own agenda.
For the conspiracy theorists, I have no idea if they are all police acting as locals to spread lies.
What the site does do is claim to have testimony that may alter the reasons for the tragedy so it is valid.
Why do their opinions have any less strength that yours?
If you don't like the comments get yourself off to the star's site and tell them they are a bunch of liars and to fuck off.
Donna Ferentes
jubliado
Then don't post what they say until you have a better idea. You don't need to, it serves no good purpose and helps nobody.
Only because you don;t like the opinions on the site.
It's a local newspaper that serves the local population, is read by them and the comments are made by them. If you think they are all liars tell them so.
A few people on the Star comments have said the same thing so they (I assume) believe what they are saying.
I have offered the suggestion of you popping to the site and offering a post in the comments section.
I will comment on you and the other posters expressing their opinions about my posting the site.
Read the other posts I have made on the thread and tell me if I'm taking any position at all or if you can see any other link or comment you dislike.
See if you can find anything I've said that in any way suggest the fans that died deserved their fate or even did the slightest thing wrong.
I'll save you the bother of checking, I haven't.
I suspect your opinion of this link is only that it suggests something you don't like for whatever reason.
As I said. Tell them to fuck off and see if they like your opinion.
Donna Ferentes
jubliado
This isn't about you. It's about people dying in grotesque circumstances and then being slandered.
I'm not going to discuss with people who do that - it's not right and not seemly. And nor is your conduct here.
I'm not going to discuss with people who do that - it's not right and not seemly. And nor is your conduct here.
5t3IIa
Registered User
Radio 4 had a 'nice' piece from the assistant commentator from the BBC on the day. I think they really held back on the more distressing aspects of it tbh, he told of interviewing the chief steward (or someone, sorry I missed it) and they were both crying but they didn't play that. It was bad enough anyway.
Can you direct me to a post where I've slandered those who died please?
If not, please say the word "sorry" and admit you are wrong.
Again. Please show me any post of mine on this thread where I've suggested hate for anyone.
That or shut the fuck up.
The comments I posted a link to all suggest that Liverpool fans OUTSIDE the stadium were pissed and causing trouble.
I will repeat (For the fucking stupid like you) that I wasn't there and have no comment either way.
I was researching the subject and found what may, or may not, be eye witness comments. They are valid to the thread even if you don't like them.
Post your hate for them on that site please.
I have made a post on that site you will be able to see if you follow the link and go to page 3.
Again. Quote any post of mine that shows hate or contempt for the people that died or say sorry and shut the fuck up about it.
fen_boy
Exits gracefully.
Again. Please show me any post of mine on this thread where I've suggested hate for anyone.
That or shut the fuck up.
The comments I posted a link to all suggest that Liverpool fans OUTSIDE the stadium were pissed and causing trouble.
I will repeat (For the fucking stupid like you) that I wasn't there and have no comment either way.
I was researching the subject and found what may, or may not, be eye witness comments. They are valid to the thread even if you don't like them.
Post your hate for them on that site please.
I have made a post on that site you will be able to see if you follow the link and go to page 3.
Again. Quote any post of mine that shows hate or contempt for the people that died or say sorry and shut the fuck up about it.
Even if you didn't mean anything by it you're now fucking up this thread. Piss off - there's a good lad.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Can we get this clown off the thread please mods?
