Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
Distressing and very informative article.
Hillsborough: What Really Happened?
- Thread starter butchersapron
- Start date
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Great stuff by Neil Fitzmaurice. Brilliant.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Wednesday 15th April 2009 marks the 20th anniversary of the disaster in Sheffield that cost 96 fellow fans their lives.
As is the custom, the Hillsborough Family Support Group will be organising a memorial service to mark the occasion and to remember those who died.
The service will be inter-denominational and will take place on the Kop at Anfield. It will commence at 2.45pm, include a two minute silence at 3.06pm and conclude at about 3.30pm with the singing of 'You'll Never Walk Alone'.
Tickets are not required and Liverpool Football Club extends an open invitation to you to join the families, the Directors, officials and players plus thousands of fellow football fans in our annual act of remembrance.
This year is expected to be exceptionally well attended and we would ask that you allow adequate time and plan to be in early. Entrances will be open at 2.00pm, on both sides of the Kop. In the event of the Kop being full for this occasion, extra seating will be provided in the Lower Centenary Stand.
A candle will be lit to remember each individual life that was extinguished prematurely and we rely upon the eternal flame of the Hillsborough Memorial to burn some light into the darkest night.
For many, Wednesday April 15th will be just a normal working day and there will be others who are unable to attend - despite wishing otherwise but everyone is invited to join us in spirit and spare a thought, say a private prayer or even light a candle in their minds.
As is the custom, the Hillsborough Family Support Group will be organising a memorial service to mark the occasion and to remember those who died.
The service will be inter-denominational and will take place on the Kop at Anfield. It will commence at 2.45pm, include a two minute silence at 3.06pm and conclude at about 3.30pm with the singing of 'You'll Never Walk Alone'.
Tickets are not required and Liverpool Football Club extends an open invitation to you to join the families, the Directors, officials and players plus thousands of fellow football fans in our annual act of remembrance.
This year is expected to be exceptionally well attended and we would ask that you allow adequate time and plan to be in early. Entrances will be open at 2.00pm, on both sides of the Kop. In the event of the Kop being full for this occasion, extra seating will be provided in the Lower Centenary Stand.
A candle will be lit to remember each individual life that was extinguished prematurely and we rely upon the eternal flame of the Hillsborough Memorial to burn some light into the darkest night.
For many, Wednesday April 15th will be just a normal working day and there will be others who are unable to attend - despite wishing otherwise but everyone is invited to join us in spirit and spare a thought, say a private prayer or even light a candle in their minds.
Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
A press pack has been produced to mark the 20th anniversary and raise awareness:
“The Hillsborough Football Disaster: Context & Consequences”
http://www.hfdinfo.com/
“The Hillsborough Football Disaster: Context & Consequences”
http://www.hfdinfo.com/
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Nice one, just grabbed the files off there
edit: #6 esp useful
edit: #6 esp useful
wiskey
Albatross Admirer
Radio 4's The Reunion this morning was about Hillsborough. It made me cry.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00jlxjp/The_Reunion_12_04_2009/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00jlxjp/The_Reunion_12_04_2009/
My God that was painful to listen to. i've just spent the evening with a close relative who was there;we bumped into someone else who was there in the pub;they're in bits now, i dread to think what state they'll be in by Wednesday. Something i've noticed this year, in comparison even with the 10th anniversary, is people seem to be a lot more angry this year;the general consensus seems to be 'i can't believe they got away with what they did'. in previous years people have said that it's been a long time, people shouldn't keep going over what happened - this feels like the first year where the response has been general disgust and sympathy for those who were there,without any undercurrent of 'well the liverpool fans must have done something'.
Donna Ferentes
jubliado
As it happens I passed Hillsborough in a car last Wednesday - we'd been on a visit to a business contact just near the ground and we went past the ground, Spion Kop side, on our way back. Shortly afterwards we passed a police station which carried on the outside the slogan of South Yorkshire Police, which is:
Twenty years on, the families of the 96 fans who died in the semi-final crush are still fighting to force police to acknowledge that changing officers’ statements amounted to a cover-up, underclassrising will be covering this in depth from the death of Ian Tomlison at the G20 Protest, Twenty-five years ago, an accelerated programme of pit closures triggered the miners’ strike, which divided friends and families and ended with the loss of tens of thousands of jobs, and the brtalisation of protest, The Hillsborough disaster and the dis-management of the crowd, lead to violance at orgreave and likewise at The G20 Protest.
The cause of the The Hillsborough disaster - police dis-management of the crowd - was established by Lord Justice Taylor in his report published just four months afterwards, in August 1989. Yet 20 years on, key questions remain unanswered about the disaster’s aftermath.
1 What, in detail, happened after 3:15pm on the day of the disaster?
2 Could more people have been saved if the response to the disaster had been better co-ordinated?
3 Who removed two CCTV video tapes from the locked control room at Hillsborough on the night of the disaster?
4 Why was nobody identified to have removed them, and what investigation was mounted?
5 Which South Yorkshire police officers worked in the unit that vetted police statements before they went to Taylor and the inquest?
6 Who gave the orders for them to do so and what was the stated intention of those orders?
7 Are the documents lodged by order of the government in the House of Lords library a complete archive of South Yorkshire police’s Hillsborough documents?
8 What was Det Supt Stanley Beechey, a former head of the West Midlands serious crime squad, doing on the Hillsborough investigation while he had been placed on “non-operational duties”?
The cause of the The Hillsborough disaster - police dis-management of the crowd - was established by Lord Justice Taylor in his report published just four months afterwards, in August 1989. Yet 20 years on, key questions remain unanswered about the disaster’s aftermath.
1 What, in detail, happened after 3:15pm on the day of the disaster?
2 Could more people have been saved if the response to the disaster had been better co-ordinated?
3 Who removed two CCTV video tapes from the locked control room at Hillsborough on the night of the disaster?
4 Why was nobody identified to have removed them, and what investigation was mounted?
5 Which South Yorkshire police officers worked in the unit that vetted police statements before they went to Taylor and the inquest?
6 Who gave the orders for them to do so and what was the stated intention of those orders?
7 Are the documents lodged by order of the government in the House of Lords library a complete archive of South Yorkshire police’s Hillsborough documents?
8 What was Det Supt Stanley Beechey, a former head of the West Midlands serious crime squad, doing on the Hillsborough investigation while he had been placed on “non-operational duties”?
Donna Ferentes
jubliado
Curious how often that happens, isn't it?
Donna Ferentes
jubliado
Aint it, just read that article fuck it brings it all back, I was living on Kelvin Flats, 20 years on I can remember it all unfolding before me, my mother worked at the Gatefield Pub, it was due to close at 3 0 clock it stayed open right through the night serving Tea Coffee and food, given by the people of Kelvin Flats.
This is something you never forget, I walked past around 6pm, and again the Sunday I just stood broke down and let the tears of rage flow, walking back home mouthing the words BASTERDS, by then we knew the actions of The Police had killed The 96 Fans.
20 years on justice has not been given or done, I shall be in Sheffield on Wed at a service in The Walled Garden of Hillsborough Park from 230pm come join us as The People of Sheffield remember the dead and those killed by the actions of The Police:
I sort of remember this happening but I'm fuzzy on the details. I do recall bits of the news for weeks after saying the cops had fucked up but can't remember what caused the crush in the first place.
Anyone?
Inadequate and obsolete entrances to the ground on Leppings Lane (7 turnstiles, which often jammed, served the Leppings Lane terrace which held 10,000 people. Think about this for a moment. 10,000 people, 7 faulty turnstiles). These 7 turnstiles were next to a separate bank of 16 turnstiles which served the whole of the stand above the terrace and the North Stand along one side, totaling another 14,000 people. So, 24,000 or so people were entering the ground through a very small area off one road.
The previous year when Forest and Liverpool had met at the same ground, there had been filters set up to ensure fans went to the correct turnstiles and to ensure queues were fairly orderly. In 1989 however, Ch Supt Duckenfield was the new man in charge of the operation, a man who had no knowledge of the layout of the ground and had only been appointed to the position a couple of weeks beforehand. He didn't bother to liaise with the Sheffield Wednesday stewards and didn't take into account the potential bottlenecks near these turnstiles.
Once it became clear that there was a dangerous crush developing at the turnstiles as the police lost control of the situation, no order was given to delay the kick off and ease the congested state of the entrances. Instead, he eventually ordered the exit gates behind the Leppings Lane terrace to be opened and the crowd walked through. Note: they did not run through, surge through or anything else. The CCTV and witness evidence shows that they walked into the ground. Note also that the gate was not 'forced' by fans as Duckenfield told Graham Kelly (then FA Secretary) in the minutes after the game had been halted, a lie that was quickly repeated and broadcast around the world.
Once through the turnstiles, there were three ways the crowd could go - to the left, right or straight ahead down a sloping tunnel. The side routes led to the pens in the corners of the terrace which were considerably less full. These routes were not well signposted and there were no stewards or police directing fans this way. The tunnel led to the two central pens which had been over full since around 2:30. Naturally, the fans entering through the opened exit gate saw only the route straight ahead and walked down it into the central pens of the terrace. The year before, once these pens were full, the tunnel was blocked off with a sliding door and fans directed to the side pens. This did not happen in 1989, the match commander's inexperience and lack of knowledge about the ground meaning he had not considered doing this.
So, over 3,000 people outside the ground were suddenly in it and heading for two central pens which had been dangerously crowded for half an hour already. Careless policing and a dangerous stadium were about to kill 96 innocent people who only wanted to go about their law abiding business of watching a game of football.
Donna Ferentes
jubliado
What I've never understood is whether anybody went round the back of the pen entrance after it was understood there was a problem, and told people to start getting out from the back. Or indeed whether people at the back did start getting out. I have the impression that the only way people went out was via the front, after the gates were opened - is that right or wrong?
I have a friend who was in the pen, by the way, but I've not asked him in twenty years and I don't really want to. (He was one of the lucky people who were hauled out by the people in the upper tier.)
I have a friend who was in the pen, by the way, but I've not asked him in twenty years and I don't really want to. (He was one of the lucky people who were hauled out by the people in the upper tier.)
I sort of remember this happening but I'm fuzzy on the details. I do recall bits of the news for weeks after saying the cops had fucked up but can't remember what caused the crush in the first place.
Anyone?
The Jimmy McGovern drama-documentary's being shown on itv3 on Wednesday night,you really should watch it,if you haven't got digital tv you can download it here. Well summarised,JTG.
if i remember right the tapes turned up in 1997,at the offices of Yorkshire TV, of all places. They showed that the cameras were working perfectly - not that it mattered,because the police control room was at the Leppings Lane end,and they could see the two central pens from where they were sat.
David Conn in the Grundy today
20 years and no justice. The man in charge of the police operation took early retirement (he was ill poor love) and kept his fat copper's pension. The lies he and his colleagues spread - that fans forced the gates, that they were drunk, that they were ticketless - continue to be told today because a lie can go round the world before the truth has time to get its boots on. Sheffield Wednesday FC, their appointed engineer, Sheffield City Council (who allowed the ground to operate with a safety certificate ten years out of date) and the Football Association who allowed the ground to host the match as one of the country's 'premier' venues, all got off scott free.
The police lied, even as fans were still dying on the pitch. They lied to ambulancemen telling them it wasn't safe to enter the ground because fans were 'still fighting in there'. They lied in their statements and pressured honest colleagues to change their's so they could cover the collective arse of the South Yorkshire Police
20 years and no justice. The man in charge of the police operation took early retirement (he was ill poor love) and kept his fat copper's pension. The lies he and his colleagues spread - that fans forced the gates, that they were drunk, that they were ticketless - continue to be told today because a lie can go round the world before the truth has time to get its boots on. Sheffield Wednesday FC, their appointed engineer, Sheffield City Council (who allowed the ground to operate with a safety certificate ten years out of date) and the Football Association who allowed the ground to host the match as one of the country's 'premier' venues, all got off scott free.
The police lied, even as fans were still dying on the pitch. They lied to ambulancemen telling them it wasn't safe to enter the ground because fans were 'still fighting in there'. They lied in their statements and pressured honest colleagues to change their's so they could cover the collective arse of the South Yorkshire Police
As I understand it, the confusion and paralysis of the police was so complete that the officers at the back of the pen near the turnstiles had no idea what was going on at the front. The officers in the control room didn't have control of the situation.
Exactly, the pens were directly in front of the control room, they should have seen what was going on. Certainly fans in the side pens recalled saying to friends that the crowd in the central pens 'didn't look right' long before the exit gates were opened on Leppings Lane - there was no sway in the crowd at all, practically motionless.
The point about the pens being full by 2:30 is an important one by the way - the distinction between 'crush' asphyxia and 'traumatic' asphyxia is important. Crush asphyxia occurs when there is a steady build up of pressure on the victim, whereas traumatic asphyxia occurs with a sudden impact. The evidence shows that crush asphyxia was often the cause of death, which suggests that people were dying before the exit gates were opened and the final influx of people occurred.
Donna Ferentes
jubliado
I know that eventually they did start clearing from the back and bodies were laid out in the tunnel as well as on the pitch (leading to the myth that people had been trampled to death in the tunnel itself). I'm not sure this point is too important though, the damage was already done by this time - the crucial thing by this stage of the afternoon was what was being done to give medical attention to those injured and dying. Not enough blatantly, given that over 40 ambulances were outside the ground and only one made it onto the pitch
Donna Ferentes
jubliado
Oh I agree, by the time anybody at the back (which was probably the worst place to be to know what was going on) was aware of what was happening, it would likely have been too late to do anything about it from where they were.
I'm just trying to get a full picture. I don't think I was ever in that pen myself - I'm fairly sure that the one time I was ever in the Leppings Lane before the disaster (I've been there once since, but sitting in the upper deck) I was in the pen on the right, where I think Trevor Hicks was.
I'm just trying to get a full picture. I don't think I was ever in that pen myself - I'm fairly sure that the one time I was ever in the Leppings Lane before the disaster (I've been there once since, but sitting in the upper deck) I was in the pen on the right, where I think Trevor Hicks was.
Missed this earlier. I think you're right, there's definitely been a different tone in the coverage and responses this year (Guardian front page today: "Hillsborough police guilty of cover up - minister").
I am disappointed though, that in an age where someone's pet hamster dying can get a minute's silence at football, my club didn't think it was important to commemorate 96 people, ordinary fans like us, at our game this weekend.
Donna Ferentes
jubliado
I wonder if the de Menezes affair has something to do with that, in that four important Hillsborough elements - police incompetence, police briefing against the dead, indefensible newspaper coverage and a coroner trying to cover up for the police - have all been widely criticised and are fresh in the public mind?
I've been doing a bit of reading up on this one. Lots of reports on the disaster,
The one thing they all agree on is that the fans that died were sensible people who had bought tickets and arrived in good time.
They all pretty much agree on other details.
1) The police and ground stewards fucked up.
2) The ground was badly designed and the positioning of the fans was not well planned.
The fencing designed to stop supporters attacking each other stopped the escape. This fencing was there as there were so many riots in the past.
3) There was a police cover up. The stewards seem to have been struck dumb as no evidence as to why that section of the ground wasn't locked off as it reached overflowing was never explained.
Some mention that 2,500 Liverpool supporters went to the ground to support their team and many had been held up by motorway repairs.
Some mention that many of these fans had no tickets and stormed the ground trying to force entry. Others do not.
Some also suggest these fans were drunk to various degrees but others dispute it.
Eye witness reports from bystanders support the idea that there were a large number of Liverpool supporters, pissed as farts, causing trouble on the way to the ground.
http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/Tell-...p?CommentPage=1&CommentPageLength=10#comments
Maybe the police didn't kill the fans that died after all.
Donna Ferentes
jubliado
I wonder whether a few unsubstantiated claims from some anonymous internet commentors twenty years down the line are really to be put alongside the vast amount of substantiated evidence that says otherwise.
