Help - another being diddled out of annual leave type thread

[AnnO'Neemus]

If a company insists that you keep some of your annual leave, so that you will use them in December, so the office can close between Christmas and New Year...

...but then in mid-December they say targets haven't been met and the office has to remain open between Christmas and New Year.

So having insised you save up some of your annual leave they then prevent you from using it...

And when you query it they say that the company policy is that unused annual leave can't be carried over.

What's the score. If they prevented you from using it, don't they have an obligation to either let you carry it over or pay it out?

 

[Steel Icarus]

Are you in a union?

 

[High Voltage]

It's my understanding that a company can (and does) insist on shut downs and that it can insist on holiday being "put by" to cover that time

A company can also refuse to allow holiday's to be taken should production demand it

BUT

To then cancel annual leave and not allow it to be carried over . . . not so

You've got September, October, November and most of December to use those days though - is that "allowed?"

 

[High Voltage]

Now I'll go back and actually READ YOUR FUCKING POST <blush>

If a company has done that it's very VERY sharp indeed and is worth investigating - if member of a union I'd imagine that they might be quite interested in this

 

[High Voltage]

. . . they say that the company policy is that unused annual leave can't be carried over.

It's only a policy, it's not a law that can be enforced FFS

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

Are you in a union?

No. Only started the job last November and there's no union.

 

[Pickman's model]

No. Only started the job last November and there's no union.

i'd say it's manifestly unfair and flies in the face of a) natural justice and b) good practice management (if that's not a contradiction in terms). look at the company's grievance procedure and check what you've got in writing about this.

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

It's my understanding that a company can (and does) insist on shut downs and that it can insist on holiday being "put by" to cover that time

A company can also refuse to allow holiday's to be taken should production demand it

BUT

To then cancel annual leave and not allow it to be carried over . . . not so

You've got September, October, November and most of December to use those days though - is that "allowed?"

I started in November, and my job's part-time, three days a week, so with six weeks' pro-rata holidays, I had enough to cover the closure between Christmas and New Year.

And in December, we were all asked to do lots of overtime, otherwise the company wouldn't meet its monthly target. So I did overtime, like lots of colleagues did.

And then we were told that despite having tried to do four weeks work in only three weeks, we hadn't met the target, so the office wouldn't be closed after all. And so we were told that we were required to come into the office.

After I raised this, I was told that company policy is not to carry over unused annual leave.

I pointed out how unjust that was, when they're the ones who insisted we set by annual leave for the office closure and then decided to open up the office and make us work and not let us use our annual leave.

They're apparently now 'looking into it'.

From where I'm sitting, it's like my annual leave from last year was stolen from me.

 

[Steel Icarus]

No. Only started the job last November and there's no union.

I really sympathise and hope you get it sorted - employers taking the piss is awful to come against, I know. But you've had 9 months in the job and just because there's no rep in the place doesn't mean you couldn't have found one for situations like this.

 

[The39thStep]

I'd say they should pay you the holiday pay. You have done the right thing raising it . You might want to have a chat with ACAS for advice whilst you await the company's decision. I'd also join a union.

 

[Pickman's model]

I started in November, and my job's part-time, three days a week, so with six weeks' pro-rata holidays, I had enough to cover the closure between Christmas and New Year.

And in December, we were all asked to do lots of overtime, otherwise the company wouldn't meet its monthly target. So I did overtime, like lots of colleagues did.

And then we were told that despite having tried to do four weeks work in only three weeks, we hadn't met the target, so the office wouldn't be closed after all. And so we were told that we were required to come into the office.

After I raised this, I was told that company policy is not to carry over unused annual leave.

I pointed out how unjust that was, when they're the ones who insisted we set by annual leave for the office closure and then decided to open up the office and make us work and not let us use our annual leave.

They're apparently now 'looking into it'.

From where I'm sitting, it's like my annual leave from last year was stolen from me.

one problem you might have is that it's the best part of a year since this happened, and where i've worked there's generally six months from the incident or behaviour which has provoked you to lodge a grievance. i think they've acted abysmally, but you may end up having no formal recourse. but check the grievance policy, see what it says precisely. if that's no good to you then your best bet is to act informally as you seem to be doing, but pointing out that if the same situation arises this year - as it might - it is almost certain to irritate a load of other people who might be feeling as you do now. see what some of your colleagues feel about the episode

 

[Steel Icarus]

Write everything down clearly so you have all the facts in front of you for whoever you speak to. Include dates wherever poss.

 

[High Voltage]

When does your holiday year run from?

If it's January to December then to cancel holidays with, basically no time to take them is . . . not great

BUT

If your holiday year coincides with, say, the financial year, it would not be unreasonable to cancel your holiday at Christmas as you would still have had 3 months to use those days up - granted those a "prime holiday months" but still a full quarter

 

[AnnaKarpik]

Are we talking about statutory holiday entitlement or days in excess of that? They absolutely cannot deprive you of statutory leave or pay it out, not legally anyway. If it's holiday in excess of the statutory minimum they can make other arrangements as per employment contract.

ETA; I've read the other posts now! Looks like statutory leave to me which started accruing at a little over half a day per week worked from your start date. Handy calculator here; Calculate holiday entitlement.

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

When does your holiday year run from?

If it's January to December then to cancel holidays with, basically no time to take them is . . . not great

BUT

If your holiday year coincides with, say, the financial year, it would not be unreasonable to cancel your holiday at Christmas as you would still have had 3 months to use those days up - granted those a "prime holiday months" but still a full quarter

The former.

 

[equationgirl]

Two points - there does not have to be a union in your workplace for you to be able to join a Union. You can join ANY union that fits your job activities. However, this union may not be recognised by your employer for the purposes of collective bargaining, which means the union negotiates direct with HR rather than each union member.

Second, your employer has a legal obligation to abide by the Working Time Regulations which mean each emoyee must take a minimum of 20 days holiday a year and must keep records showing that compliance.

I think the law says you can carry a certain amount over too, but would need to check that

 

[equationgirl]

Ok, doesn't look like that there is a legal entitlement to have holiday carried over BUT if carry over is provided for in the contract, they must of course abide by that

Holiday entitlement

Holiday entitlement or annual leave - information for employers and workers on entitlement, calculating leave, taking leave, accruing leave and disputes

www.gov.uk

As others have pointed out, depriving you of your statutory leave means they're breaking the law. Check your contract if you have questions about carrying over between leave years.

Also note that failing to use a carry over system may fall foul of the Equality Act because of case law around leave accrual during periods of long term absence due to medical disability.

Each worker must take a minimum of four weeks leave each leave year to avoid breaching the Working Time Regulations.

AnnO'Neemus I strongly recommend that you look into joining an appropriate union at your earliest opportunity. Union dues are based on your income.