Have rape allegations been substantiated?

[Joe Reilly]

All the early reports of New Orleans were peppered with reports of actual rapes with implications of mass rape. Now it is not all impossible that predatory elements might well seek to take advantage in such a situation but given the coverage is it too much to ask if any of the allegations, (just one even) have been substantiated? Just curious.

 

[belboid]

gary younge did a quite good piece in the Guardian about it - he couldn't find any confirmed cases.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,1563470,00.html

 

[poster342002]

Given the chaotic circumstances of the emergency, it may prove difficult to substantiate incidents of rape. Doesn't necessarily mean that none happened, though.

 

[lizzieloo]

I was wondering about this. The US seems to be increasingly paranoid, in a 'lawless' situation like this any stories/rumours would be about like wildfire.

 

[Divisive Cotton]

The whole thing - rapes, muggings, murders - was used as smoke screen to give an excuse for their non-action. Not saying these things didn't happen... but what you'll find is that most people would have banded together to help each other. That makes sense though doesn't it? Those with nothing have a greater strength in cooperation...

 

[joer90]

the daily sport in one of it's "serious" articles said that pepole were were practising voodoo and eating dead corpses the british press have been rascist scum about this whole issue (as usual)

 

[james_walsh]

America does some fucked up attitudes to sex, so its possible.

The home of (christian) religiously sexually repressed.You can`t even say the word bollox on public TV. but is also the biggest market place for porn. Get a nipple out at a public event and they all have a heart attack!!

 

[Barking_Mad]

If the US cant secure New Orleans after a Hurricane with just a few folk with guns, what chance of sorting out Iraq?

 

[blamblam]

America does some fucked up attitudes to sex, so its possible.

The home of (christian) religiously sexually repressed.You can`t even say the word bollox on public TV.

No one in America knows what "bollocks" means.

I wondered about those rape things. I've been reading about, but in reputable sources - national dailies, CNN etc., I've only read of 2 alleged by police officers, one of a woman, one of someone under age in the Superdome. But again no detail or anything.

I've hoped it was bullshit all along, although I did believe it at first, of gangbangers probably. Now I'm really not so sure - looks like it was pretty much made up. Fucking media

 

[james_walsh]

No one in America knows what "bollocks" means.``

Then why did they cut it out of `alias smith and jones`when i was watching it in New york 12 years ago.

 

[lizzieloo]

New Orleans police chief Eddie Compass said last night:

""We don't have any substantiated rapes. We will investigate if the individuals come forward."

 

[Joe Reilly]

New Orleans police chief Eddie Compass said last night:

""We don't have any substantiated rapes. We will investigate if the individuals come forward."

Fuck me - that's rather suspiciously relaxed don't you think? I wonder by 'individuals' does he mean actual victims or the witnesses and reporters who have been regurgitating the tales ad nauseam? Surely they should at least be asked to authenticate the basis of their reports? Otherwise its like a public libel on an entire community.

 

[cockneyrebel]

Of course rape and murder could have happened.

But it's also a strong possibility that the racist media made stuff up (or were more than happy to listen to unsubstantiated claims and present them as fact) to use as a smoke screen to cover up for George Bush by playing to negative racist stereotypes of black men as "gangbangers" and savages. An underlying tone of "who gives a fuck what happens to these people anyway, they're uncivilised savages"......

Indeed George Bush's mother has said it all when she said maybe the hurricaine to them a favour

 

[Joe Reilly]

Given the chaotic circumstances of the emergency, it may prove difficult to substantiate incidents of rape. Doesn't necessarily mean that none happened, though.

On the surface catching the perps might appear difficult. But when you think about it they are as trapped by conditions as everyone else. Trapped in other words alongside both victims and eye-witnesses (how could there not be in such circumstances) all awaiting 'rescue' by the authorities. If that is the stories are true and the authorities were interested identyfying the guilty would be a matter of processing.

 

[angry bob]

No one in America knows what "bollocks" means.``

Then why did they cut it out of `alias smith and jones`when i was watching it in New york 12 years ago.

They said 'bollocks' on alias smith and jones??

The show with the two outlaw cowboys from the sixties??

Really??

 

[Joe Reilly]

Of course rape and murder could have happened.

But it's also a strong possibility that the racist media made stuff up (or were more than happy to listen to unsubstantiated claims and present them as fact) to use as a smoke screen to cover up for George Bush by playing to negative racist stereotypes of black men as "gangbangers" and savages.

I don't think reaching for ready made stereotypes like 'racist media' does any favours. In tone and delivery this is remarkably like the stories carried immeditaly after Hillsborough, drunken rampage, pissing on the dead, groping dead or unconscious women. 'Bestial' yes, but no racial connotation whatsoever.

 

[poster342002]

On the surface catching the perps might appear difficult. But when you think about it they are as trapped by conditions as everyone else. Trapped in other words alongside both victims and eye-witnesses (how could there not be in such circumstances) all awaiting 'rescue' by the authorities. If that is the stories are true and the authorities were interested identyfying the guilty would be a matter of processing.

Possible - but depends on the intimidation factor upon the witnesses/vitims etc.

This one is complicated: the situation was a mess and nothing seems totally clear yet. What I fear is that everybody's (understandable) hope that this turns out to be an urban myth may lead to victims being disbeleived - or that the fear of being disbeleived by deter victims/witnesses from coming forward.

 

[belboid]

no of course not, just a coincidence they were only attacking black people, the US media isn't racist at all.

 

[LLETSA]

Far-left living in the past

no of course not, just a coincidence they were only attacking black people, the US media isn't racist at all.

It depends on which section of the media, or even the publication/programme and the individual journalists. The 'racist media' is another one of the mantras of the far-left that reduce contemporary society to a far less complex entity than it actually is. In this country, for instance, there is nowadays at least as much positive comment about the non-white population as there are racist smears, sometimes within the very same sources.

 

[belboid]

this is true - tho I was talking about the US media (or the bits of it I've seen from over here), which uses different stereotypes to castigate the white and black working-classes, and the steretypes it has been trotting out about New Orleans have been almost entirely those used against the black w-c.

The kind of kneejerk rejection of anything that sounds a bit 'old leftist' that you and Joe Reilly both are so fond tho are also simplistic mantra's that you seem to employ to avoid actual debate all too frequently.

 

[LLETSA]

this is true - tho I was talking about the US media (or the bits of it I've seen from over here), which uses different stereotypes to castigate the white and black working-classes, and the steretypes it has been trotting out about New Orleans have been almost entirely those used against the black w-c.

The kind of kneejerk rejection of anything that sounds a bit 'old leftist' that you and Joe Reilly both are so fond tho are also simplistic mantra's that you seem to employ to avoid actual debate all too frequently.

Never noticed anybody avoiding any debate here.

Any other examples?

 

[belboid]

not realy at the mo, but its the impression I get, shout 'old left' so the rest of the argument (and sometimes they are very poor arguments its true) doesnt matter.

I might have a look if I can be arsed at work tomorrow.

 

[LLETSA]

not realy at the mo, but its the impression I get, shout 'old left' so the rest of the argument (and sometimes they are very poor arguments its true) doesnt matter.

I might have a look if I can be arsed at work tomorrow.

I'll be interested to see your examples, because it's usually the case that any comment about the kneejerk habits of the far-left are followed up with explanations of why so many of their assumptions are redundant.

I hope you can be arsed, because another feature of the 'old left' on here is that they are the ones who make statements they can't substantiate and then bad-temperedly flounce off, announcing something like they 'can't be arsed' continuing the argument.

Not saying you're doing this, of course.

 

[cockneyrebel]

Agree with belboid. And it's my impression that there is a lot of anger among the black population in America who think that both the response from the Bush government and the media's coverage has been racist, but they're probably all mugs and just trotting out far left mantra.

For instance I agree with the sentiments of hip-hop artist Kanye West when talking about the media:

They're saying black families are looting and white families are just looking for food...they're giving the (Army) permission to shoot us

Even on the UK media I've noticed how black people have been portrayed as looters, while white people have just been trying to survive.

For someone to say there has been "no racial connotation whatsoever" is a joke.

 

[Ground Elder]

They said 'bollocks' on alias smith and jones??The show with the two outlaw cowboys from the sixties??Really??

I suspect the offending programme was really this

 

[LLETSA]

Agree with belboid. And it's my impression that there is a lot of anger among the black population in America who think that both the response from the Bush government and the media's coverage has been racist, but they're probably all mugs and just trotting out far left mantra.

For instance I agree with the sentiments of hip-hop artist Kanye West when talking about the media:



Even on the UK media I've noticed how black people have been portrayed as looters, while white people have just been trying to survive.

For someone to say there has been "no racial connotation whatsoever" is a joke.

As I said, knee-jerk. Read my post- I never said anything about the US media not being racist, simply that to label it as racist across the board is over-simplistic.

Your reaction springs not only from a desire to reduce society to a condition in your mind where your outdated dogma can cope with it- as demonstrated by your post you wish to imagine yourself 'at one' with 'the black people of the USA.'

 

[cockneyrebel]

You talk about knee jerk reactions but then say:

as demonstrated by your post you wish to imagine yourself 'at one' with 'the black people of the USA.'

Which of course I never said at all.

And when I said:

But it's also a strong possibility that the racist media made stuff up

I didn't mean for it to come across as:

simply that to label it as racist across the board is over-simplistic.

Again a knee jerk response from you.

 

[LLETSA]

You talk about knee jerk reactions but then say:



Which of course I never said at all.

And when I said:



I didn't mean for it to come across as:



Again a knee jerk response from you.

Take another look at your post.

It isn't what you say, it's what you imply.

 

[Paul Marsh]

The rape stuff appears to be unsubstantiated, which naturally begs the question why it was reported in the first place.

I do notice however that Gary Younge, in his Guardian article posted above, does not manage to comment, or even mention the racist abuse and threats several Britons who were inside the stadium say they were subjected to by black Americans.

Had it been black Britons being abused by white Americans, can anyone imagine Gary Younge being unable to squeeze in even a mere mention of the accusation?

 

[cockneyrebel]

It isn't what you say, it's what you imply.

But this is the point. It's a knee jerk response from you. Rather than ask what I mean, you just go into one. As it happens I think you make some valid points.

Of course I don't think the US media is one homogenous lump. But I do think that a lot of the media coverage has been driven by a combination of a racist and anti-working class agenda. I also think that if it has been mainly white people who were suffering the Bush regime would have responded in a different way.

But rather pick up JR on the bollox comment that there was "no racial connotation whatsoever", you pick me up for (in your eyes) exagerating the racism in the media's response.