Harry Roberts has been freed

[ViolentPanda]

The state regularly kills people by the hundred thousand to serve the interests of a small elite left untroubled by incarceration. There's plenty of forgiveness given there but Harry Roberts should swing. The right are all in a muddle over this shit.

No, the right have never been in a muddle over this shit - not the "Establishment" right, anyway. They've always known that playing circus games for the public can and does work (although to a diminishing degree over the centuries), especially with people like Spymaster.
The "muddle" comes from "the hoi polloi" (that's us!) mistaking the reasons for, and the intent behind heavily-punitive "justice". They actually believe that it's to discourage other criminals from the same crime, whereas the "spectacle" is much more about programming you to accept the right of the state to formulate, arbitrate and administrate "justice" in our name.

 

[Pickman's model]

It's a proxy argument isn't it.

one r too many there

 

[maomao]

one r too many there

Was going to do that joke myself but felt it beneath me.

 

[andysays]

You've got to remember that what he actually wants is the death penalty; imprisonment until death is his soft option.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

Yeah, I realise that.

I'm just suggesting that if his position really is that no murderer should ever be released, however much lily-livered-liberals like you and me suggest they've been rehabilitated and/or are no longer any threat to the public, because he simply thinks they should be punished by imprisonment until the day they die, then he should say that honestly so that the rest of us can dismiss that for the bollocks it is and get on with discussing the reality of the issue without getting side-tracked by his extreme black-and-white thinking.

 

[co-op]

Just to make clear where i stand on this btw - i think he should be let out, i think he's been kept inside as a totem of the combined power of the police and the POA and their shared interests and the home offices utter cowardice in challenging them. I'd like to see this power symbolically challenged by his release. I mentioned the animal stuff as a possible way the former may try to maintain their grip on Roberts. If he was behind that stuff then he was effectively found guilty of it 2001 and served a further 13 years for it. I also brought it up to try and head off any potential ill-informed heroisation of the anti-social prick that may have been developing.

There are going to be some people who are just fucked up though aren't there? People who should be safely contained for life for everyone else's protection? I don't know if HR is one of these (as I posted earlier there's ample evidence that 95+% of murderers do not murder again so the general rule is that you can let them out) but HR sounds like he is quite happy with using violence still, who knows, as discussed above there's any number of reasons why various parties may be lying about all this.

I'm against CP but can see why some people should have a full life tariffs, just that I wouldn't make those sadistic, just a normal life but locked up. Do you ever see a role for prisons like this? Or are they always going to be evidence of a command and control hierarchy? (I'm assuming you are opposed to that kind of thing, maybe I'm wrong about that).

 

[ViolentPanda]

Maybe he's being let out under special conditions that he goes to Switzerland on a one way ticket, that would make everyone happy. Not sure what Harry's exact thoughts are on capital punishment, murder, euthanasia and war are.

He's on licence (all those released who've been convicted of murder are), and you can be sure the OB will be watching him very carefully to make sure he doesn't break the terms of his licence. They won't be trying to provoke him, though. The police are much too honest and upright to do something like that.

 

[butchersapron]

There are going to be some people who are just fucked up though aren't there? People who should be safely contained for life for everyone else's protection? I don't know if HR is one of these (as I posted earlier there's ample evidence that 95+% of murderers do not murder again so the general rule is that you can let them out) but HR sounds like he is quite happy with using violence still, who knows, as discussed above there's any number of reasons why various parties may be lying about all this.

I'm against CP but can see why some people should have a full life tariffs, just that I wouldn't make those sadistic, just a normal life but locked up. Do you ever see a role for prisons like this? Or are they always going to be evidence of a command and control hierarchy? (I'm assuming you are opposed to that kind of thing, maybe I'm wrong about that).

Quite simple for me - dangerous people should be helped as much as possible to realise the danger they pose and work to overcome that danger as far as possible and if they can't they should be put somewhere they can't harm others. If there was any other way i'm sure it would have been presented and everyone would have gone oh yeah, that's great - why didn't we thnk of that before?

 

[coley]

Come on, Bish. It's a piece of piss to make untraceable phone calls and always has been. Just use a phone box.

Aye and incoming calls can be traced, if it was going on then the police would have put a trace on the couples phones, surely?

 

[Spymaster]

Just so we're clear, are you saying that any (triple) murderer, no matter how much they have been rehabilitated and however little danger to the public they are now deemed to be

Yes.

And if so, are you aware this is not the current legal position?

Yes.

 

[andysays]

Yes.



Yes.

Thanks for clearing that up.

I think we can put you in the box labelled "rabid lock-them-up-until-they-cark-it nutter" for the duration of this thread, and disregard any further contributions you may make

 

[coley]

Some people should never be released back into society and this bugger is one of them.

 

[ViolentPanda]

8 pages and not one ACAB

No need for it, is there? They're part of a corrupt institution, and one that can't fail to have a corrupting effect on them. Even if they're not "bastards", they facilitate bastardry.

 

[ViolentPanda]

in fairness that's the met police FEDERATION, not new scotland yard. the police federation are well known for their barking views.

And their dislike of internal democracy within the Police Federation.

 

[Spymaster]

let's lock you up for 48 years and see how you feel about it then

So far I haven't killed anyone.

 

[ViolentPanda]

If he's got any sense he'll show some remorse and apologise to the families when he gets out. It wouldn't be much fun trying to live a strange new life at the age of 78 with the whole world hating your guts.

What makes you imagine that the whole world will hate his guts?

 

[Blagsta]

There are going to be some people who are just fucked up though aren't there? People who should be safely contained for life for everyone else's protection? I don't know if HR is one of these (as I posted earlier there's ample evidence that 95+% of murderers do not murder again so the general rule is that you can let them out) but HR sounds like he is quite happy with using violence still, who knows, as discussed above there's any number of reasons why various parties may be lying about all this.

I'm against CP but can see why some people should have a full life tariffs, just that I wouldn't make those sadistic, just a normal life but locked up. Do you ever see a role for prisons like this? Or are they always going to be evidence of a command and control hierarchy? (I'm assuming you are opposed to that kind of thing, maybe I'm wrong about that).

Sounds like you're on about forensic psychiatric hospitals. People who are found to be dangerous due to mental ill health (whether that's psychosis or psychopathy or whatever) can be held indefinitely.

 

[coley]

Sounds like you're on about forensic psychiatric hospitals. People who are found to be dangerous due to mental ill health (whether that's psychosis or psychopathy or whatever) can be held indefinitely.

That's the sort of place where he should have ended his days.

 

[phildwyer]

My position is that Killing cops is a pastime for would-be suicides.

Now that's what I call a link.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Seriously Dotski, look him up.

Harry Roberts is one of the nastiest cunts that ever existed.

Nope.
Roberts is merely a nasty cunt who got caught and punished. Even at the time he did the murders he was convicted for, he wasn't the nastiest cunt out there by a long chalk. You really think that other villains contemporary to him didn't do as bad or worse, but either weren't caught for it, or pursued as hard because their victims weren't coppers?

 

[Spymaster]

Nope.
Roberts is merely a nasty cunt who got caught and punished. Even at the time he did the murders he was convicted for, he wasn't the nastiest cunt out there by a long chalk. You really think that other villains contemporary to him didn't do as bad or worse, but either weren't caught for it, or pursued as hard because their victims weren't coppers?

I'm very certain that there were. Hyperbole on my part to Dotski last night.

Out of interest, do you think any prisoner who poses little or no risk of reoffending should not be incarcerated?

 

[Mr.Bishie]

Now that's what I call a link.

"The cop is the guard dog of the commodity system. Where the lie of the commodity is not enough to impose order, the ruling bureaucratic class or caste sends in the cop to impose it for them."

 

[Spymaster]

but but but he's a good boy, and in the lodge

Ahhh, thraigo, there you are!

I was wondering when you were going to grace us with your odour.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Surely someone would have been able to say yay or nay to the alleged four years of abusive calls? If it happened it surely reflects on his fitness for release which is what counts. No one needs to prove he can kill. The threats would suggest he could again.

If however the four years of calls were a fabrication surely the animal botherers would be in trouble with the law?

If Roberts made the calls, they would have been recorded. HM Prison Service has routinely recorded all outgoing traffic since 1991, and are supposed to keep the recordings (originally to audio cassette, then CD, and now to HDs) for 6 years.

 

[dylanredefined]

"The cop is the guard dog of the commodity system. Where the lie of the commodity is not enough to impose order, the ruling bureaucratic class or caste sends in the cop to impose it for them."[/QUOTE

Unfortunately some people are just arseholes so any civilisation is going to need cops of some sort.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I shoot game myself.

I'd class you as "ground game" since there's no such thing as "pond game", afaik.

You've never shot duck from a punt, then?

 

[Idris2002]

Unfortunately some people are just arseholes so any civilisation is going to need cops of some sort.

The ethnographic record of hunter/gatherer societies apparently contains several cases of persons who were "incorrigibly arseholish" having "accidents" arranged for them.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

Unfortunately some people are just arseholes so any civilisation is going to need cops of some sort.

Stick to making tea

 

[Mr.Bishie]

You've never shot duck from a punt, then?

 

[Mr.Bishie]

So what?

 

[butchersapron]

So what?

10 posts this time. Tops.