Going to work while sick (and work rights etc)

[savoloysam]

I'm currently off with anxiety and depression due to personal issues.

I went off work about a month ago and got a sick note up until last friday. I checked in with my boss last week and although not feeling better made an agreement with her to go back on PT hours basically because sitting at home thinking about shit was just making me worse to be honest, let alone the temptation of using that free time to get shit faced too often was not helping me at all

I went to the doc's on Monday to get a script and the doctor asked why I have gone back to work while I was still sick and I explained that I needed to because without structure to my day I just feel worse and I hoped it would get me back on track.

However being aware that my employers will try to rush me back to FT hours as soon as they can I requested the Dr issue me with a phased return sick note to cover me which he was happy to do for 8 weeks with a note to say "hours as agreed with employer"

So I took this into work on Monday and had a brief chat with my boss and gave her the sick note. I could see in her face that she looked worried when I told her that the Dr was of the impression that I should not be in work while I am still sick.

Anyway today she has typed up the standard return to work letter with the usual formal bollocks on it about periods of sickness, the company not being able to support x amount of sickness blah blah blah (this is the only one I have had in the last 12 months) and asked me to sign it which I did because she caught me unaware and I am currently doped up to fuck on Mirtazapine but I realise I should not have signed the letter? I was so out of it I could have been my signing my death warrant for all I knew and cared. However why would she do this while I am on phased hours? Am I now considered officially back to work?

I am really pissed off about this because this was not a return to work meeting, it was just a personal update from me to her and to give her the sicknote. She never did go into anything with me about periods of sickness or anything it was all very informal and personal and but now she has craftily got me sign a return to work meeting document.

They are currently short of staff and will be for a while by the looks and this won't change so she pulled this stunt to try and keep me in work instead of worrying abouy my well being.

I agreed to come into work hoping it will help me feel better and to go from there. Not to help them because they can't be arsed to employ enough staff

Now that I am there, albeit on PT hours, all she seems to be interested in is getting me back on full time hours ASAP and acting as though nothing is wrong.

On top of this there is no consideration for the fact that I returned to work voluntarily while sick in the hope that it triggers me getting better and instead they are chucking work at me all over the place and I'm kinda regretting going back now until the meds have kicked in and I've had some decent councilling and feel like I'm moving forward.

I don't want to give in and go back full time sick but I also don't like being cheated like that or want to be working in that kind of environment where they are not considering that I am far from my best at the moment.

I guess at the minute it's best to stay on part time hours for as long as the sicknote lasts and not let them bully me into going full time if I don't feel ready. If I do however go back to full time sick during the phased return would it count legally as a second or first period of sickness?

 

[Chilli.s]

A couple of suggestions:

Take the sick time and pay from your employer. Get another sick note too and give them that.

Go and do some voluntary work for amusement. Hopefully a boost to your self esteem as you will be valued and meet new people.

Your health is more important than their job.

 

[equationgirl]

I'm currently off with anxiety and depression due to personal issues.

I went off work about a month ago and got a sick note up until last friday. I checked in with my boss last week and although not feeling better made an agreement with her to go back on PT hours basically because sitting at home thinking about shit was just making me worse to be honest, let alone the temptation of using that free time to get shit faced too often was not helping me at all

I went to the doc's on Monday to get a script and the doctor asked why I have gone back to work while I was still sick and I explained that I needed to because without structure to my day I just feel worse and I hoped it would get me back on track.

However being aware that my employers will try to rush me back to FT hours as soon as they can I requested the Dr issue me with a phased return sick note to cover me which he was happy to do for 8 weeks with a note to say "hours as agreed with employer"

So I took this into work on Monday and had a brief chat with my boss and gave her the sick note. I could see in her face that she looked worried when I told her that the Dr was of the impression that I should not be in work while I am still sick.

Anyway today she has typed up the standard return to work letter with the usual formal bollocks on it about periods of sickness, the company not being able to support x amount of sickness blah blah blah (this is the only one I have had in the last 12 months) and asked me to sign it which I did because she caught me unaware and I am currently doped up to fuck on Mirtazapine but I realise I should not have signed the letter? I was so out of it I could have been my signing my death warrant for all I knew and cared. However why would she do this while I am on phased hours? Am I now considered officially back to work?

I am really pissed off about this because this was not a return to work meeting, it was just a personal update from me to her and to give her the sicknote. She never did go into anything with me about periods of sickness or anything it was all very informal and personal and but now she has craftily got me sign a return to work meeting document.

They are currently short of staff and will be for a while by the looks and this won't change so she pulled this stunt to try and keep me in work instead of worrying abouy my well being.

I agreed to come into work hoping it will help me feel better and to go from there. Not to help them because they can't be arsed to employ enough staff

Now that I am there, albeit on PT hours, all she seems to be interested in is getting me back on full time hours ASAP and acting as though nothing is wrong.

On top of this there is no consideration for the fact that I returned to work voluntarily while sick in the hope that it triggers me getting better and instead they are chucking work at me all over the place and I'm kinda regretting going back now until the meds have kicked in and I've had some decent councilling and feel like I'm moving forward.

I don't want to give in and go back full time sick but I also don't like being cheated like that or want to be working in that kind of environment where they are not considering that I am far from my best at the moment.

I guess at the minute it's best to stay on part time hours for as long as the sicknote lasts and not let them bully me into going full time if I don't feel ready. If I do however go back to full time sick during the phased return would it count legally as a second or first period of sickness?

A second period absence will probably be counted as a separate time off, because it is separated from the first period of absence by a period of time in work.

The fact that you came back to work voluntarily means jack shit to them, to be frank. Many employers do not care that you are putting your health at risk by returning early, or that what happens in the workplace is contributing to your state of anxiety.

I'm unclear why your boss got you to sign a letter if it wasn't a back to work meeting, but you could rescind it by letting HR know that you were asked to sign something about going back to work full-time when on a phased return.

You could also speak to your boss about what form the phased return will take (3 days for 4 weeks then 4 days for 4 weeks for example, get it confirmed in writing what hours you will be doing and on what days). Do not rely on anyone's good nature in this, I think your boss has already shown she's prepared to give lip service to it.

Also point out that during your phased return you will only be to complete tasks x, y and z, not a or b. Put that in writing too.

Going off sick is not 'giving in', it's taking the time you need to properly get better. But if your workplace isn't going to change anything that contributed to the anxiety then expect a relapse at some point.

You can get another job. You can't get your health back.

 

[savoloysam]

Thanks for the replies. She must have seen this thread lol because she called me into a meeting the next day and asked if I was still OK to be in work and she's told me that she is happy to extend the phased return for as long as needed. That's what matters to me right now, just feeling supported. I do feel PT hours are helping me focus and the meds are kicking. I will get better and move on

 

[equationgirl]

Thanks for the replies. She must have seen this thread lol because she called me into a meeting the next day and asked if I was still OK to be in work and she's told me that she is happy to extend the phased return for as long as needed. That's what matters to me right now, just feeling supported. I do feel PT hours are helping me focus and the meds are kicking. I will get better and move on

I recommend pacing yourself and do not hurry back to full time hours before you're ready.

 

[savoloysam]

A little more advice required please...

An update. So I wasn't getting on well with the AD's and working at the same time. I was constantly feeling knocked out and Irritable especially at work leading to me having a mini toys episode and getting fully signed off for one month by the dr and having my meds increased. After calling in work and advising of the situation I get a call from my TL 2 days into a one month sick note with a voicemail left for me which including other grubbings was asking if the increase in medication is helping yet

As it happends I've been down with a nasty chest bug and I'm now on Antibiotics and Salbutamol as well. I emailed my TL on Monday and advised her of this.

Yesterday she has sent me a reply telling me she wants to keep regular contact and is going to call me again tomorrow to see how am I.

She is doing this under the proviso of "duty of care" but I know full well it's only to try and get me to come back to work outside of my sicknote even if it's not this week. I mean calling two days into a one month sick note when we only spoke on the phone two days ago?

My question is I know they are allowed to keep reasonable contact while you're sick but what classes as reasonable contact? I know all they are interested in is getting me back to work. They often will send out emails or mention in meetings that we should all "make our best efforts to come into work even if we are sick" "Staff can always work just a few hours until they can't do anymore" One email that went out once said "It's better to come into work where you colleagues will make you feel better"

So is a phone call once a week reasonable contact? Is it wise to call her out and tell her that I'm feeling like I am being cajoled into coming back to work when I'm not ready. Which I am in all honesty even if I'm not.

 

[andysays]

A little more advice required please...

An update. So I wasn't getting on well with the AD's and working at the same time. I was constantly feeling knocked out and Irritable especially at work leading to me having a mini toys episode and getting fully signed off for one month by the dr and having my meds increased. After calling in work and advising of the situation I get a call from my TL 2 days into a one month sick note with a voicemail left for me asking if the increase in medication is helping yet

As it happends I've been down with a nasty chest bug and I'm now on Antibiotics and Salbutamol as well. I emailed my TL on Monday and advised her of this.

Yesterday she has sent me a reply telling me she wants to keep regular contact and is going to call me again tomorrow to see how am I.

She is doing this under the proviso of "duty of care" but I know full well it's only to try and get me to come back to work outside of my sicknote even if it's not this week. I mean calling two days into a one month sick note when we only spoke on the phone two days ago?

My question is I know they are allowed to keep reasonable contact while your sick but what classes as reasonable contact? I know all they are interested in is getting me back to work. They quote often will send out emails or mention in meetings that we should all "make our best efforts to come into work even if we are sick" "Staff can always work just a few hours until they can't do anymore" One email that went out once said "It's better to come into work where you colleagues will make you feel better"

So is once a phone call a week reasonable contact? I'm guessing not really, Is it wise to call her out and tell her that I'm feeling like I am being cajoled into coming back to work when I'm not ready. Which I am in all honesty even if I'm not.

It seems to me that if you're off sick your Team Leader shouldn't be contacting you, for any reason. I would be inclined to tell them this, by email rather than phone, and depending on the nature and scale of the organisation you work for I'd consider copying in their line manager and your HR department or similar.

And given what's happened, I'd be very wary about going back to work, either full or part time, until you're absolutely sure you're ready, and until you've had a proper "back to work" discussion, ideally with someone other than your immediate team leader, about how your return will be managed in such a way that you don't feel under pressure.

 

[savoloysam]

It seems to me that if you're off sick your Team Leader shouldn't be contacting you, for any reason. I would be inclined to tell them this, by email rather than phone, and depending on the nature and scale of the organisation you work for I'd consider copying in their line manager and your HR department or similar.

And given what's happened, I'd be very wary about going back to work, either full or part time, until you're absolutely sure you're ready, and until you've had a proper "back to work" discussion, ideally with someone other than your immediate team leader, about how your return will be managed in such a way that you don't feel under pressure.

Thanks Andy that makes good sense but they are allowed to make "reasonable contact" when you're off long term. It's what classes as reasonable is the question.

I have no problem answering the phone and saying no still poorly, can't commit to a RTW date bye but as you see above this isn't what they are looking for.

ETA it's a very big company. A well known household name.

 

[equationgirl]

Speak to HR, either my email or phone, and say that although you have submitted a sick note for one month you were contacted two days after it started and you feel your team lead is pressuring you to return to work when your GP has advised against.

You can ask that contact is only initiated by HR if you prefer. In any case, I would stipulate you expect to be contacted no more than once a fortnight.

 

[equationgirl]

Reasonable can mean many different things to different people/companies. I would say weekly is a bit more than reasonable.

 

[andysays]

Thanks Andy that makes good sense but they are allowed to make "reasonable contact" when you're off long term. It's what classes as reasonable is the question.

I have no problem answering the phone and saying no still poorly, can't commit to a RTW date bye but as you see above this isn't what they are looking for.

ETA it's a very big company. A well known household name.

In that case, I would request that all contact is done through HR until you're ready to return.

They should be better aware of what is considered reasonable in this situation than your team leader

 

[farmerbarleymow]

Line managers have a duty to maintain some contact while someone is off on long-term sick absence - but calling two days in is taking the piss in my view. Fair enough perhaps a fortnight into a four week sick note, perhaps to discuss occupational health referrals and possible phased returns, but two days in is going too far.

Agree with e-mailing them - it would be reasonable for you to ask that if they need to contact you they do so in writing.

 

[equationgirl]

When I was last off on long term sick, HR contacted me once a month 'to check in'. It was really to see if I was coming back to work

I might have enjoyed telling them I was in hospital hooked up to an iv.

 

[savoloysam]

Thanks guys good answers there. Obviously they could argue "local contact" is better than "HR Contact".

I think a good idea would be to reply to her mail and say I am still very poorly and feeling somewhat pressured and it's not helping and advise I would be happy to undergo an occupaction health referral if necessary. What do you think?

 

[equationgirl]

Thanks guys good answers there. Obviously they could argue "local contact" is better than "HR Contact".

I think a good idea would be to reply to her mail and say I am still very poorly and feeling somewhat pressured and it's not helping and advise I would be happy to undergo an occupaction health referral. What do you think?

I wouldn't mention occupational health just yet, it's too soon. Say you would be happy to discuss it at a later date.

 

[savoloysam]

I wouldn't mention occupational health jyst yet, it's too soon. Say you would be happy to discuss it at a later date.

Thanks, will do that.

 

[savoloysam]

An update for the good peeps who have taken an interest. So I emailed back as above outlining how ill I am currently and to say that I was feeling pressured regarding returning to work.

She has replied saying she has to maintain regular contact under duty of care.

She is going to contact me again in less than a week (before she goes on leave) and is arranging an attendance review for the following week.

The attendance review I have no problem with but she is clearly not seeing (and this is backed up by generic online HR guidance pages I found via google) that she is over treading the line as to what is reasonable contact. She is saying she just wants to make sure the company is doing everything it can to support me. I am already aware of the support that the company offers and that is already in progress (Mainly councelling).

I'll have to let her contact me next week for the AR. I do hope personally that I can return at the end of the month when my sick note runs out anyway but I am going to email ACAS for advice because I know when I return they are going to issue me an attendance warning and mark one sickness down as two periods (If this is the case I am effectively being punished for, as they would say, making my best efforts to return to work ) If that is the case I may well raise a grievance case with HR. Nice to be worrying about these things when you're sick eh?!

 

[equationgirl]

An update for the good peeps who have taken an interest. So I emailed back as above outlining how ill I am currently and to say that I was feeling pressured regarding returning to work.

She has replied saying she has to maintain regular contact under duty of care.

She is going to contact me again in less than a week (before she goes on leave) and is arranging an attendance review for the following week.

The attendance review I have no problem with but she is clearly not seeing (and this is backed up by generic online HR guidance pages I found via google) that she is over treading the line as to what is reasonable contact. She is saying she just wants to make sure the company is doing everything it can to support me. I am already aware of the support that the company offers and that is already in progress (Mainly councelling).

I'll have to let her contact me next week for the AR. I do hope personally that I can return at the end of the month when my sick note runs out anyway but I am going to email ACAS for advice because I know when I return they are going to issue me an attendance warning and mark one sickness down as two periods (If this is the case I am effectively being punished for, as they would say, making my best efforts to return to work ) If that is the case I may well raise a grievance case with HR. Nice to be worrying about these things when you're sick eh?!

Duty of care, yes to a certain extent, but she should be agreeing a contact frequency with you not imposing one on you and calling fulfilling the duty of care.

Are you in a union?

 

[equationgirl]

Also it sounds as if you were off for two different reasons, this will make it harder to argue it is a single continuous absence especially if the two different reasons were stated on the sick notes.

 

[savoloysam]

Duty of care, yes to a certain extent, but she should be agreeing a contact frequency with you not imposing one on you and calling fulfilling the duty of care.

Are you in a union?

There is a union option but I've not signed up as generally they are not much help when you need them apart from accompanying you to meetings. So long as you do your research regarding what the company can and can't do.

It is the same sickness and really should be one period because ;

- As per my OP, I made my best efforts to return to work and made clear I was not better before doing so and that it was in the hope of kickstarting me feeling better. It didn't. It had the opposite effect for which they could have helped but were happily oblivious (hence my mini toys epispode and going back sick)

- My chest infection has become secondary during my current sicknote which has reamined for the same thing.

- And I have the sick notes that run in date order through the whole time and the work i did do was only PT/Phased hours which partially triggered me going off work again.

 

[equationgirl]

There is a union option but I've not signed up as generally they are not much help when you need them apart from accompanying you to meetings. So long as you do your research regarding what the company can and can't do.

It is the same sickness and really should be one period because ;

- As per my OP, I made my best efforts to return to work and made clear I was not better before doing so and that it was in the hope of kickstarting me feeling better. It didn't. It had the opposite effect for which they could have helped but were happily oblivious (hence my mini toys epispode and going back sick)

- My chest infection has become secondary during my current sicknote which has reamined for the same thing.

- And I have the sick notes that run in date order through the whole time and the work i did do was only PT/Phased hours which partially triggered me going off work again.

I did the same, many years ago, I went back for one day (I shouldn't have) and despite being for the same reason it was counted as two separate absences. Regardless of the logic behind your argument, they may very well count it as two absences.

I wholly recommend joining a union, although they may well not be able to help with this issue. Having someone advocate for me when I was unable to helped enormously.

 

[A380]

...



I wholly recommend joining a union, although they may well not be able to help with this issue. Having someone advocate for me when I was unable to helped enormously.

This^^^ can’t say it too much. If you are in work you should be in a union. Not only is it the ‘right’ thing to do politically, it’s like driving a car with no insurance to work for other people without having a union behind you.