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Global financial system implosion begins

minus twenty four dollars now! lol!
Yep it’s mental. I don’t know the first thing about the oil industry but why don’t they just like stop pumping it out for a bit if it’s worth minus money per barrel ?
Is this all to do with the virus meaning nobody travelling / making things with oil?
 
Yep it’s mental. I don’t know the first thing about the oil industry but why don’t they just like stop pumping it out for a bit if it’s worth minus money per barrel ?
Is this all to do with the virus meaning nobody travelling / making things with oil?
fucked if i know how it works. i dont think its meant to work like this though.
oil use dropped by about thirty percent i heard somewhere.
 
It’s expensive to stop and start production. It’s cheaper to pay somebody a bit to take it away for a while. Effectively, you’re paying for storage.
 
Yeah, the machinery that pumps refines and transports oil is designed to run 24/7. Leave a pipeline dry and it'll clog up with residue. Stop pumping a well and it'll collapse. Turn off a refinery and spend a month cleaning it out.
 
US oil prices turn negative as demand dries up
20/04/20
The price of US oil has turned negative for the first time in history.
That means oil producers are paying buyers to take the commodity off their hands over fears that storage capacity could run out in May.

Demand for oil has all but dried up as lockdowns across the world have kept people inside.

As a result, oil firms have resorted to renting tankers to store the surplus supply and that has forced the price of US oil into negative territory.

The price of a barrel of West Texas Intermediate (WTI), the benchmark for US oil, fell as low as minus $37.63 a barrel.

E2A. Should've refreshed page.
 
its technical blip but yeah. WTI doesnt really exist anymore iykwim but is shorthand for US oil. futures work on contango due delivery costs normally but this is turboed

lolz

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look at the volumes above - everyone is carrying their may longs across to june.

eta, this is last trade day for may delivery day- anyonw who is long at close tonight will have to have somewhere to hold the shit arriving in may. hence the furious activity
 
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Is this a WTAF moment like when the tsunami causes the sea to recede and the unwary go to collect fish from the newly exposed seafloor?
 
No, it's an anomaly caused by the way oil is traded as bets on future prices (futures) - it's not really about the oil's value, more the market's perceived view of its future value, which has turned negative because of the unprecedented drop in demand the likes of which has literally never been seen since we started pumping it.
 
Lawsuit claims 10 big banks rigged market for 'odd-lot' U.S. corporate bonds
April 21, 2020
NEW YORK (Reuters) - Ten of the world’s largest banks, including JPMorgan Chase and Bank of America, have been sued for allegedly conspiring over nearly 14 years to rig prices in the $9.6 trillion U.S. corporate bond market, costing ordinary investors billions of dollars.

The proposed class action filed on Tuesday in federal court in Manhattan said the banks have since August 2006 violated antitrust law by overcharging investors on “odd-lot” trades, which are worth less than $1 million and comprise 90% of all corporate bond trading.

Other defendants include Barclays, Citigroup, Credit Suisse, Deutsche Bank, Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, Royal Bank of Scotland and Wells Fargo & Co, or their respective affiliates.

According to the 81-page complaint, the banks leveraged their power from handling more than two-thirds of U.S. corporate bond underwriting to quietly inflate spreads between the prices where they would buy and sell odd-lot bonds.

This allegedly resulted in spreads 25% to 300% higher than on “round-lot” trades over $1 million, which are normally conducted by institutional investors, enabling the banks to reap higher compensation while boosting retail investors’ trading costs.
 
No, it's an anomaly caused by the way oil is traded as bets on future prices (futures) - it's not really about the oil's value, more the market's perceived view of its future value, which has turned negative because of the unprecedented drop in demand the likes of which has literally never been seen since we started pumping it.
Yep.

It's a product of markets attracting speculators/traders. Occasionally these people lose sight of the fact that there is actually a product being sold. Real oil, not just "paper" oil. Someone ended up with what they thought was a bargain price for paper oil, only to discover that the music was about to stop and they would actually have to take delivery of real oil. They had no choice but to pay to off load this "long" which had become a liability.
 
Banks, hedge funds, Investment houses and mugs like me with private pensions have to put the money somewhere. I don't think it's delusion as much as a total lack of alternatives to put the money.
I'm in the pension at work and paid into The Local Government Pension Scheme for years.
 
Banks, hedge funds, Investment houses and mugs like me with private pensions have to put the money somewhere. I don't think it's delusion as much as a total lack of alternatives to put the money.
Exactly. Over the years, whenever I’ve considered it to be a good time to not be invested in risky assets, the question I’ve always come up against is “So what isn’t risky? What’s the alternative, here?”
 
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ECB May Discuss Junk Debt Collateral in Call on Wednesday
21 April 2020
European Central Bank policy makers will hold a call on Wednesday evening where they may discuss whether to accept junk-rated debt as collateral from lenders, according to officials familiar with the matter.

The video conference could be intended to head off concerns that some sovereign and corporate bonds will soon be downgraded to non-investment grade because of the cost of fighting the coronavirus pandemic.

S&P Global Ratings is set to review Italy’s credit rating on Friday, which it currently ranks two notches above investment grade with a negative outlook. A downgrade would be a step toward potentially excluding the euro zone’s third-largest economy from the ECB’s refinancing and asset-purchase programs, precipitating a crisis.
 
I'm in the pension at work and paid into The Local Government Pension Scheme for years.
It's a good scheme, if they weren't constantly trying to move the goalposts with regard to paying out (although even with that it's far better than a private pension). But you need to be employed in certain state operations. And I don't think it's going to be immune to all of the shocks to come.
 
Exactly. Over the years, whenever I’ve considering it to be a good time to not be invested in risky assets, the question I’ve always come up against is “So what isn’t risky? What’s the alternative, here?”
I have considered moving the money to a sipp and buying land. But the set up and management fees are eye watering.
 
I have considered moving the money to a sipp and buying land. But the set up and management fees are eye watering.
Not to mention that anything tangible requires maintenance, which is not necessarily cheap.

In the end, I think that as long as this capitalist political system exists, the odds will continue to be stacked in favour of capital, and corporations will continue to make profits, which work be dividended to shareholders. Values of assets may go up and down, but the share of surplus generated is being pushed in one direction only. As long as this carries on being the case, it makes most sense to me to ride that horse.

And if the state collapses, none of it will matter anyway.
 
In the end, I think that as long as this capitalist political system exists, the odds will continue to be stacked in favour of capital, and corporations will continue to make profits, which work be dividended to shareholders. Values of assets may go up and down, but the share of surplus generated is being pushed in one direction only. As long as this carries on being the case, it makes most sense to me to ride that horse.
Cant beat them join em eh?
 
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