J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
He looks like he is on the toilet
Global financial system implosion begins
- Thread starter Falcon
- Start date
He looks like he is on the toilet
Will be an interesting week no matter whatStockholm Syndrome, why build a statue to a tyrant who wiped out many of your ancestors/relatives?
ska invita
back on the other side
the system has been propped up since 2008....those legs will buckle eventually.....
gosub
~#
Shanghai opens in 3 hours... .
Cynic in me notices its about 6 months since their first rumbles...
ItWillNeverWork
Messy Crimbobs, fellow humans.
Maybe they realise it looks like he's on the toilet and are all having a chuckle privately.
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
gosub
~#
Global slump more like
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
gosub
~#
Apart from it being RBSeconomists
ItWillNeverWork
Messy Crimbobs, fellow humans.
Or just economists, full stop.
ska invita
back on the other side
ska invita
back on the other side
Well I for one am scared of whats to come...Edwards warning Beware the great 2016 financial crisis, warns leading City pessimist that this time around the Eurozone will be killed off doesnt get close to the raw reality on the ground of deep poverty and right wing nationalism it will release. Really scary.
There was very little organised oppostion to the effects of the last crash, at least in the UK, except maybe Occupy, will probably be even less this time.
In some countries it will be the euronationalists, the far right, etc, who will become the workers champion, this is a disgrace and a shame.
In some countries it will be the euronationalists, the far right, etc, who will become the workers champion, this is a disgrace and a shame.
ska invita
back on the other side
Can anyone find a graph for UK Personal Debt for the last few years?
All I can find are articles from last year saying it was up a lot since 2008
UK household debt is at a record high, says a think tank
Average UK household to be £10,000 in debt by end of 2016
All I can find are articles from last year saying it was up a lot since 2008
UK household debt is at a record high, says a think tank
Average UK household to be £10,000 in debt by end of 2016
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Wolveryeti
Detty Pig
From the Guardian article ska invita posted above:
“Edwards attacked what he said was the “incredible conceit” of central bankers, who had failed to learn the lessons of the housing bubble that led to the financial crisis and slump of 2008-09. They didn’t understand the system then and they don’t understand how they are screwing up again. Deflation is upon us and the central banks can’t see it.”
“Edwards attacked what he said was the “incredible conceit” of central bankers, who had failed to learn the lessons of the housing bubble that led to the financial crisis and slump of 2008-09. They didn’t understand the system then and they don’t understand how they are screwing up again. Deflation is upon us and the central banks can’t see it.”
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newbie
undisambiguated
Savings and assets seem to me to be as important as debt, but I've no idea whether economists think the same.
I've found this, but unlike other graphs on the same page it's nothing like up to date, and because it's expressed in percentage terms is rather opaque.
What I'd really like to understand is the relationship between personal or household assets and debt in absolute terms, preferably both including and excluding housing, both primary and btl, but I've no idea how to find that in any form, whether digestible or not.
I've found this, but unlike other graphs on the same page it's nothing like up to date, and because it's expressed in percentage terms is rather opaque.
What I'd really like to understand is the relationship between personal or household assets and debt in absolute terms, preferably both including and excluding housing, both primary and btl, but I've no idea how to find that in any form, whether digestible or not.
hipipol
Peckham Wry
You'll have great difficultySavings and assets seem to me to be as important as debt, but I've no idea whether economists think the same.
I've found this, but unlike other graphs on the same page it's nothing like up to date, and because it's expressed in percentage terms is rather opaque.
What I'd really like to understand is the relationship between personal or household assets and debt in absolute terms, preferably both including and excluding housing, both primary and btl, but I've no idea how to find that in any form, whether digestible or not.
Judging by the way you have pitched the question you regard "assets" as held absolutely without attachment but also imply that these things have some form of "value, as opposed to merely a cash return were they sold
Equally debt
Neither have a fixed relationship nor have sure value
I have great car, cost me x, I am still paying for it (X-Y - down payment = Z x variable interest repayment x term) - when do I actually own it and when does it still have any value,
as after a certain amount of time and use it is merely scrap?
Whats happening is that trust is vanishing, not just in economics, but in virtually every sphere of structured hierarchical human activity
Pricing anything in the current cycle in order to produce a cohesive ALM model is virtually impossible, whatever the talking heads on TV may say
newbie
undisambiguated
ALM?
ok there are issues, and maybe an uncertain margin of error, but are you really saying no estimate of personal or household asset wealth can be made?
I accept it's complicated at the individual level. Your car represents both an asset and a debt. The debt is quantifiable throughout its life, but the asset only at the point of sale. And, of course, the debt continues if you write the car off, but the asset may suddenly reduce to zero.
Nonetheless, across the country the number of personal/household cars on the road can be estimated, as can their overall snapshot value. The same is true for housing, savings, investments and so on.
Anyway, by pure coincidence, the FT today says "Official figures show that after deducting debt, net household assets stood at 7.67 times income in 2014, a stronger financial position than at any point in almost 100 years." (my emphasis) referencing this from the ONS.
TBH I don't really understand most of the ONS report, not at first reading anyway, but this graph shows exactly what I've been wanting to know.
Be worth remembering this when the next OMG household debt is measured in the trillions scare happens.
mauvais
on reddit or something
Even a net figure is useless because time has a value. For example consider three people.
One is at the start of a 25 year capital repayment mortgage. They've borrowed £200k. They can comfortably make payments.
Another has just set out on a shorter £200k interest only mortgage to pay for their property. They can comfortably make payments but the whole thing is contingent on avoiding serious negative equity at the end of the term.
The third has £50k left to pay on their mortgage but they're struggling to make the payments, and the house has declined in value since they bought it (let's say it's in Northern Ireland).
In meaningful terms, who has the most debt?
toblerone3
Grrrrr
Acronym Definition
ALM Application Lifecycle Management
ALM Asset Liability Management
ALM Alarm
ALM Almanac
ALM Arbeitsgemeinschaft der Landesmedienanstalten in der Bundesrepublik Deutschland
ALM A La Mode
ALM American Leprosy Missions
ALM Adaptive Logic Module
ALM Alarm Module
ALM Master of Liberal Arts (degree)
ALM Audiolingual Method
ALM Audio Level Meter
ALM Asynchronous Line Multiplexer
ALM Alamogordo, NM, USA (Airport Code)
ALM Advanced Locality Management (India)
ALM AppWare Loadable Module (Novell NetWare)
ALM Association for Linen Management (Richmond, KY)
ALM Association of Lloyd's Members
ALM Antilliaanse Luchtvaart Maatschappij (Dutch Antillean Airlines)
ALM Associazione Laicale Missionaria (Italian)
ALM [not an acronym] (formerly American Lawyer Media; integrated media company)
ALM Advanced Load Management (Tarantella)
ALM Asynchronous Line Module
ALM Air-Launched Missile
ALM Application Loadable Module
ALM Airlift Loading Model (USAF)
ALM Angry Little Man (gaming)
ALM Air Load Module
ALM Automatic Link Management (radio technology)
ALM ALM Airline, Netherlands Antilles (ICAO code)
ALM Accelerated Life Model (biology)
ALM ACT Learning Manager
ALM Automatic Local Mode
ALM Alarm Local Mode
ALM Alarm List Manager
ALM Adult Learning Master's (degree)
ALM Asset Library Mechanism
ALM Accessoires Levage Manutention (French hydraulic tool manufacturer; est. 1986)
ALM Arkansas and Louisiana Missouri Railway Company
ALM Association pour la Lecture de Mediapart (French: Mediapart Reading Association)
ALM Adobe License Manager (software)
ALM Asset Liability Management seems the most likely.
newbie
undisambiguated
I get that debt burden is uneven, and bears heavier on some individuals than others, and that time is certainly a factor in that burden, as is age. But bulked up to 60m people, such individually crucial factors even out.
The charts above aren't 'useless' because they don't account for the individual circumstances of a household in Northern ireland or anywhere else. #5090 reveals that we collectively owe about 140% of our income, #5094 says that after taking that into account, we own wealth worth about 750% of our income and also makes clear that although the overall quantity of assets probably didn't decline much in 2008-10, their value plummeted but subsequently recovered while we collectively reduced our debt burden.
Whatever the caveats, that's an important part of the picture.
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mauvais
on reddit or something
My point is that it doesn't tell you anything about fragility or stress, even averaged out. It doesn't tell you whether high household debt will be a problem or not if the interest rate goes up, or if credit becomes difficult to obtain a la the credit crisis. So how useful is it other than for interesting trivia?
So again with another example, if 50% now go to uni, then a large number have student loans, big ones these days, but it's effectively meaningless debt that only suppresses income. So if it's in the debt column it's unhelpful. This is an extreme but lots of things are like this to some extent.
So again with another example, if 50% now go to uni, then a large number have student loans, big ones these days, but it's effectively meaningless debt that only suppresses income. So if it's in the debt column it's unhelpful. This is an extreme but lots of things are like this to some extent.
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