Global financial system implosion begins
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elbows
Well-Known Member
One of the very last things my granddad said to me was that Nixon did some good things! Im sure he enjoyed the 1980s, liked Thatcher and bought all the freshly-privatised company shares to prove it.
The problem with this country crying about decline is it gets all mixed up with that long slow descent from global empire, a process which nations may never really get over when it comes to inflated opinions of themselves and giant chips on shoulders. Post-industrial decline is a strange enough thing to deal with, let alone when this other baggage gets chucked into the mix and so much progress continues to be made by science, industry, technology etc on the overall global scene.
So its probably not surprising that I found that article, despite its various interesting details, to be rather wanly in its overall tone. There are details which it may sometimes be useful to compare to developing nations, but to suggest that we are simply heading back towards that state is a load of old cobblers in my book. These sorts of articles also have a tendency to pretend that our manufacturing etc has collapsed to a greater extent than is really the case, and to conflate the present ownership of infrastructure and productive capacity by foreign players, multinationals etc with the actual geographical location of these assets.
I would also like to complain that such narratives may be used to suggest that many of the dire political & ownership choices that have been made in this country in recent decades were an utterly inevitable part of our journey of decline and fall down the global leader board, rather than also being driven by specific political agendas. Inevitably we have far less ability to dictate the direction of global politics than we once had, but we are hardly the only country that has lost a lot of wiggle room since the last time the world was reshaped dramatically through war. And it is rather hard to say what will happen next time the world undergoes a shocking reconfiguration, but its certainly possible to imagine that certain aspects of our decline can be reversed due to the removal of various constraints ( & the likely introduction of others).
My point could also be made by focussing on what we are using to measure decline. Crying about being reduced to the state of a developing nation, without seeing child mortality of life expectancy rates that are comparable, sickens me on a number of levels.
The problem with this country crying about decline is it gets all mixed up with that long slow descent from global empire, a process which nations may never really get over when it comes to inflated opinions of themselves and giant chips on shoulders. Post-industrial decline is a strange enough thing to deal with, let alone when this other baggage gets chucked into the mix and so much progress continues to be made by science, industry, technology etc on the overall global scene.
So its probably not surprising that I found that article, despite its various interesting details, to be rather wanly in its overall tone. There are details which it may sometimes be useful to compare to developing nations, but to suggest that we are simply heading back towards that state is a load of old cobblers in my book. These sorts of articles also have a tendency to pretend that our manufacturing etc has collapsed to a greater extent than is really the case, and to conflate the present ownership of infrastructure and productive capacity by foreign players, multinationals etc with the actual geographical location of these assets.
I would also like to complain that such narratives may be used to suggest that many of the dire political & ownership choices that have been made in this country in recent decades were an utterly inevitable part of our journey of decline and fall down the global leader board, rather than also being driven by specific political agendas. Inevitably we have far less ability to dictate the direction of global politics than we once had, but we are hardly the only country that has lost a lot of wiggle room since the last time the world was reshaped dramatically through war. And it is rather hard to say what will happen next time the world undergoes a shocking reconfiguration, but its certainly possible to imagine that certain aspects of our decline can be reversed due to the removal of various constraints ( & the likely introduction of others).
My point could also be made by focussing on what we are using to measure decline. Crying about being reduced to the state of a developing nation, without seeing child mortality of life expectancy rates that are comparable, sickens me on a number of levels.
ska invita
back on the other side
Nothing more annoying than an always-right dad.T It now seems that, as usual, he was right...
Interesting post though, thanks.
ska invita
back on the other side
I don't think the book will say the UK will become a third world country on every measure, just that its economies will become comparable in the way they function, systematically/structurally.
On the plus side, as the Eurozone collapses and the financial services or whatever they call themselves fall out of favour/profit, money from manufacturing (whats left of it) leaves the country, and the 'Third World' model kicks in, it does make the possibility of other 'Third World' solutions more appealing to the population at large aka nationalisation and other collectivist approaches
Heh heh!
Soviets? - More likely the CIA - see Confessions of an Economic Hit Man.
The American Capitalist Project really didn't like the turn of UK politics after the war...
Mind you, one of my brothers-in-law was convinced that even Tony Blair was communist ! Mind you he is nowadays a quite crazed UKIP supporter. Of course it COULD be that comrades Blair and Brown, in cynically overseeing the crazy unregulated housing, banking, and general debt frenzy of the NULabour years... obvious to all (...er... now) that it was going to collapse like a house of cards into a new capitalist crisis ... were in fact , all along, deep cover soviet sleeper agents, tasked with the revenge destruction of the western capitalist system.. as the last instruction received from their redundant KGB case officers..... (before they ... er... transformed themselves into the new Russian capitalist elite.... hmmm.. have to figure that one out.......)
YES.....IT ALLLLLL makes sense now .......
YES.....IT ALLLLLL makes sense now .......
gosub
~#
My Dad had him as Israeli but that is off the back of his experiences with the Eric Miller
elbows
Well-Known Member
Looks like there has been a more direct and flippant third world comparison comment thats created a bit of a storm.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18408448
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18408448
Sunray
Its sunny somewhere.
This crisis is like watching a car crash in super slow motion.
I read a article the other day that suggested that all the governments should go into super secret talks, and unilaterally pull out of the Euro at some point in the near future and covert all bank currencies to their old pre-euro days at the entry price. The Euro would still exist for day to day money but when they printed new local cash it would be phased out.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18193962
Of all the scenarios out there this is the most decisive and would solve the problem once and for all. A new euro could be born out of the ashes, perhaps one that didn't have the endemic weaknesses of the existing currency.
I read a article the other day that suggested that all the governments should go into super secret talks, and unilaterally pull out of the Euro at some point in the near future and covert all bank currencies to their old pre-euro days at the entry price. The Euro would still exist for day to day money but when they printed new local cash it would be phased out.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18193962
Of all the scenarios out there this is the most decisive and would solve the problem once and for all. A new euro could be born out of the ashes, perhaps one that didn't have the endemic weaknesses of the existing currency.
elbows
Well-Known Member
It would solve a problem, the current manifestation a much bigger, broader problem. Such a solution comes with its own risks and certainly does not solve 'the problem' once and for all.
The problem requires a sea change, new dominant ideologies, structures, balances of power etc.
The problem requires a sea change, new dominant ideologies, structures, balances of power etc.
According to José Manuel García-Margallo, the Spanish foreign minister.
The next few days are going to be interesting...
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
things like this always look worse in super slow motion
Sunray
Its sunny somewhere.
Not unless Greece declares war on Germany and the ECB I cant see it being that ugly.
Get use to buying second hand and making do on less for a few years. Certainly having less bizarre cheap crap from China, a lot of which gets put pretty much directly into landfill, is a good thing in my book.
Sunray
Its sunny somewhere.
I've come to the conclusion that, however much of a good idea it is in theory. The Euro's implementation, which many people said at the start was possibly flawed, has come to haunt it. Kill off the Euro, right now. We should ideally be waking up in the morning to the Euro is dead headline.
After nearly five years of reliably stumbling towards financial Armageddon. Every meeting has been a crisis meeting, yet all that has changed is that some countries are even more fucked than they were five years ago. I just cannot see an end to this unless something decisive is done.
Kill off the Euro.
After nearly five years of reliably stumbling towards financial Armageddon. Every meeting has been a crisis meeting, yet all that has changed is that some countries are even more fucked than they were five years ago. I just cannot see an end to this unless something decisive is done.
Kill off the Euro.
Barking_Mad
Non sibi sed omnibus
BoE to make £80bn available to banks as long as it 'is made available to small businesses and households'. Sounds like this is a pre-bail out fund?
magneze
🎧
This didn't work before, the banks just kept it. Project "Merlin" lol. What makes them think it'll be different now? It's not like the banks faced any sanctions for not lending. We must do something, this is something.
Divisive Cotton
Now I just have my toy soldiers
There's also another factor in that the demand isn't there from businesses like it was pre-2008. In 2008 the banks drew up the drawbridge and there was a fundamental breach in trust between the banks and the businesses that were dependent on a continuous streams of credit. Now businesses have learned to live without the ready supply of bank cash and a reversal back to the pre-2008 relationship will take years and years not months.
If the bank is printing money (which is what they are doing, right?) then why can't the government directly spend it on infrastructure projects?
The Government could indeed spend a wodge of cash on big and small infrastructure projects, create jobs, create capacity/competitiveness - potentially inflationery, but then so is endless QE - far too "government led/Keynsian" for this extraordinarily ideological government. They (and a lot of similar governments worldwide)will be waiting a long time before the "invisible hand" of theoretical market economics gets the system rolling again. In fact the main thing that Keynes was keen to impress on the conventional economic thinkers of his day is that "capitalist equilibrium" can establish itself just as easily at a position of permanent economic Depression , as at full employment of resources .. unless the STATE/states intervene .
The recent collapse in Money Supply worldwide, and the apparent fact that businesses simply wont take money from banks even were they to offer it, strongly suggests that world recession conditions are now fast approaching a second stage meltdown - the Eurozone crisis could well be the trigger --- but the state of the Chinese economy could equally well be it (60 million unoccupied premises in the crazy Chinese property boom apparently !)
Sunray
Its sunny somewhere.
Exactly. Vicious circle that nobody seems to want to break out of for fear of their political lives.
From my perspective, it looks very much like politicians are simply waiting for the markets to make the decisions for them.
I'm actually dwelling on the idea that politicians already know the Euro is dead and there is pretty much nothing they can do. They know its going to cease to exist and they are letting it pan out organically it so its not blamed on them.
There has been some rumours that the Bundesbank didn't actually destroy the Mark, just stuffed it in some giant bunker somewhere in Germany, just in case they needed to reissue it in a hurry. Anyone else but the Germans I'd not really believe it, but it is the Germans!
From my perspective, it looks very much like politicians are simply waiting for the markets to make the decisions for them.
I'm actually dwelling on the idea that politicians already know the Euro is dead and there is pretty much nothing they can do. They know its going to cease to exist and they are letting it pan out organically it so its not blamed on them.
There has been some rumours that the Bundesbank didn't actually destroy the Mark, just stuffed it in some giant bunker somewhere in Germany, just in case they needed to reissue it in a hurry. Anyone else but the Germans I'd not really believe it, but it is the Germans!
toblerone3
Grrrrr
Could reintroduce the Deutsch Mark and invite countries to join.
I thought that Gurning Gonad's Gold Giveaway happened purely because the man was a fuckwit.
It now seems that this was also Brown's Bank Bailout, paid for by the British taxpayer.
global Ponzi scheme banking system, we'd be enjoying a "recovery" now...
It now seems that this was also Brown's Bank Bailout, paid for by the British taxpayer.
If we'd guaranteed personal deposits and let the money juggling parasites crash & burn - as they did in Iceland - instead of pouring trillions of public money into the
elbows
Well-Known Member
How does money-juggling qualify as "industry" ?
The city of London is little more than a thieves kitchen. We'd be better off without these vermin.
The rest of the world would be even better off if we stopped being Mr 10% cream-skimming scum.
Im not trying to defend or legitimise them, I am simply recognising that a recovery given the current world setup would not have happened simply by letting this stuff fail.
And a more meaningful recovery would go so far beyond anything we can reasonably discuss in terms of response to events since the financial crisis that I don't know where to start, but likely one f those peak oil or systemic collapse threads eh.
love detective
there's no love too small
roughly the same amount as the health & social work sector does
love detective
there's no love too small
of course not, it goes without saying that Dr Jon talks a load of shite, so there's no need to point it out all the time
there is however a perception that the financial services sector 'contributes' more to the economy than it actually does
there is however a perception that the financial services sector 'contributes' more to the economy than it actually does
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