Gerry Adams exposed , his lies demolished at brothers rape trial

[Casually Red]

That's sort of what I was thinking really. It makes sense that both sides did dance around at general level, not just at the foot soldier one. Murky business.

a rotten business, sickening from start to finish.

 

[Casually Red]

If he's charged do you think it will have any implications on the peace process?

no, nobody gives a flying fuck about him bar the gullible and his own sycophants. And people would just laugh at them throwing any kind of militant shapes now.

 

[toggle]

you should read his chief of staff Johnathon Powells account of it. No wonder he was pissing himself laughing. The wheels were in motion long before Blair or Mowlam. I was at a sinn fein ard feis in the mid 80s were the wheels were already in motion. Blair was just dotting is and crossing ts by the time he came along . Choreography was how David Ervine described it.

remember discussing this with you a few years ago when i was studying this. more of the evidence I read, the more i aggree.

 

[laptop]

prisoners werent set free. They were paroled on license

I wrote "released". I meant "released". "Released" is accurate.

 

[Casually Red]

to get a handle on how crooked this thing is watch this lying fucking toerag. I sat through this shit as a teenager . The deal was already done then , just not signed. The opposition within the republican movement had to be neutralised before it could take place, thats why it took so long. They had to inch ahead very slowly. Just listen to this fucking dog and youll see all this Good Friday hype for what it really is. And him for what he is, and always was. Sending people out to kill and be killed when he already knew where him and Adams were going. As did HMG.

as he and his inner circle of dogs admit today, this was the day their peace process began in earnest.

the fucking dog

 

[Casually Red]

I wrote "released". I meant "released". "Released" is accurate.

released on license that can be withdrawn at the unchallengable whim of a british secretary of state is accurate.
To be incomplete is misleading, and when one is misled ones understanding is far from accurate. However if you want to play word games on the issue its up to yourself. Ive clarified the point sufficiently.

 

[Cheesypoof]

Just one look at this thread - Gerry Adams aint responsible or responsible for his brothers actions. Daft, judgmental thread, and stupid too.

 

[butchersapron]

He's certainly responsibly for his own actions in relation to what his brother did. As you'd know if you'd actually read the thread or followed the story.

 

[Casually Red]

Just one look at this thread - Gerry Adams aint responsible or responsible for his brothers actions. Daft, judgmental thread, and stupid too.

hes responsible for covering those actions up. Hes responsible for permitting his child rapist brother , whom he knew to be a child rapist, trade off the Adams name and remain a senior republican, working in various youth clubs and within Sinn Fein in the knowlege the man was not only a child rapist but heavily compromised by both the RUC and MI6. Hes also responsible for reporting the rape victims mother to the social services out of malicious spite. And hes responsible for lying through his teeth about the whole thing for years on end. All of which had an extremely detrimental effect on the rape victim who went to him for help.

hes also responsible for cynically dedicating his autobiography to his child rapist brother, and then sending that book with that dedication to his brothers victim as a very callous present

and thats probably the least rotten things hes responsible for.

daft and judgemental...righto

 

[Cheesypoof]

thanks for explaining your opinion.

 

[Casually Red]

its not my opinion, its what he did and whats been proven he did by a great many people. Including his brothers victim and the testimony that had to be dragged out of Adams himself.

 

[Pickman's model]

Because being accused of sex offences when you're a bit of an actor is precisely and exactly the same thing as being the big chief head honcho of the IRA, presumably.

did you listen to the news this morning?

 

[Espresso]

did you listen to the news this morning?

Yes.

 

[Badgers]

did you listen to the news this morning?

I am listening now

 

[Pickman's model]

Yes.

so you'll have heard the psni arrested some other people for jm and released a number nfa.

 

[likesfish]

Voices from the grave was an unbeliably stupid move and decent legal advice at the beginning of the boston tapes might have helped.

 

[framed]

Voices from the grave was an unbeliably stupid move and decent legal advice at the beginning of the boston tapes might have helped.

Brendan Hughes has been a personal hero of mine since the time of the first hunger strike, which he led. He had a legendary status as an IRA leader on the Falls, but I have to say now that the specific references he made in those interviews were very ill-advised. Those conducting the interviews had their own agenda and I believe that Brendan, being at a very low ebb in his life, was used in order to settle old scores. The worst thing is that his reputation has now been sullied by this...

I think SF may have to rethink their whole attitude to Truth and Reconciliation and the possibility of negotiating an amnesty across the board. That's the only way to stop these historical investigations from impacting upon republicans of all shades. However, a change in strategy also throws up the unedifying prospect of the party losing the support of family justice campaigns which demand the prosecution of state forces.

As far as I know, Adams offered himself for questioning 6 weeks ago and the PSNI refused. Now, in the midst of an election campaign, they decide to call him in for questioning... draw your own conclusions.

 

[phildwyer]

Sending people out to kill and be killed when he already knew where him and Adams were going.

Just like any other army officer.

 

[likesfish]

The boston tapes was a legit history project but had to remain secret hm goverment could choose to ignore it.
But the publishing of voices from the grave made it open season
Broke every fucking rule or guideline claiming boston college had any defence when the justice department came knocking is just
Even the most rudimentary legal advice could have prevented this farce.
Uk forces are not going to be prosecuted with the on the runs let off thats never going to happen not that is was very likely in the first place.

 

[Casually Red]

Brendan Hughes has been a personal hero of mine since the time of the first hunger strike, which he led. He had a legendary status as an IRA leader on the Falls, but I have to say now that the specific references he made in those interviews were very ill-advised. Those conducting the interviews had their own agenda and I believe that Brendan, being at a very low ebb in his life, was used in order to settle old scores. The worst thing is that his reputation has now been sullied by this...

with respect I disagree, and theres a real danger the sentiments being spread by the Adams party machine seep into public discourse as accepted fact . Theres far too many shades of the lies that were spread about poor Brendan finally being reconciled with Gerry on his death bed and admitting he was used by others in that narrative thats been dutifully spread all over the place by the party machine . It should be firmly rejected in my view. For starters Brendan Hughes wasnt the only respected republican who took part in that project . In my view its quite insulting to the man to suggest he was anyones dupe . Something Im quite sure you dont want to do .
This was a period were sinn fein were sending people to his flat posing as old friends in order to bug it . A period were Sinn Fein were literally jumping down the throats of anyone suggesting Adams had ever been a member , there were even legal threats, solicitors letters . The entire history of the struggle and what happened had been wholly crafted in order to fit in with Adams ego and a massive lie . That there had been no betrayal, that the provos had won . The leadership were superheros . A completely fake narrative supported not only by the party machine but the state organs as well in many cases . Gerry Adams has written about 20 books, each and every one of them about himself .
An alternative narrative has been a pressing necessity for a very long time . Particularly given the grand scale of the lies that are casually accepted as given truths.

In my view Brendan Hughes, like a few others, felt they owed it to the Irish people and most particularly those who had suffered most to at least set the record straight . To not have a massive rotten lie taking centre stage as the accepted historical narrative of our nation for the future.

And as regards his memory being sullied Id take the view that once the likes of Adams and McGuiness physically embrace the apparatus of occupation, become embedded within it and physically part of it. When they actively encourage Irish citizens to join the occupation forces, become informants for those forces and legitmise the very occupation itself...when they stand over a system that imprisons and criminalises Irish republicans, and when they themselves criminalise and demonise republicans for that system, then all bets on loyalty and secrecy are off .

Oaths are as defunct as the same oaths Adams and McGuinness themselves reneged upon . Such leaders fully deserve to be exposed in my view . Absolutely zero loyalty is owed to them . These are people who Mo Mowlam in 1998 publicly thanked from the steps of Stormont for the information they were passing on other republicans . And people who from the same steps of Stormont denounced Irish republicans as traitors to Ireland, while flanked by Sir Hugh Orde and Peter Robinson . Brendan Hughes owed such people nothing . And what he did owe to the Irish people was the responsibilty to set the record straight so they didnt spend the next 50 years celebrating them as heroes.


I think SF may have to rethink their whole attitude to Truth and Reconciliation and the possibility of negotiating an amnesty across the board. That's the only way to stop these historical investigations from impacting upon republicans of all shades. However, a change in strategy also throws up the unedifying prospect of the party losing the support of family justice campaigns which demand the prosecution of state forces.

Again with respect, Provisional Sinn Fein have nothing left to negotiate with . It was announced during the week the Ballymurphy families and others can go take a running jump . The reason they face such a conundrum is that central to the sinn fein strategy was the legitmisation of British rule and an attempt to rehabilitate it. An internal settlement they tried to portray like South Africa. Except the Irish struggle wasnt against aspects of British injustice, it was against British rule . Having accepted British rule theyre left with the fact people who resisted it commited crimes under British law .
Had there been an end to British rule then this would have been different . So its a circle that cant be squared . They built these peoples hopes up as a strategy to keep themselves afloat . Sooner or later theyll have to tell these people they shafted them . Its what happens when you lose .

As far as I know, Adams offered himself for questioning 6 weeks ago and the PSNI refused. Now, in the midst of an election campaign, they decide to call him in for questioning... draw your own conclusions.


Again with respect my only conclusion is Adams was advised beforehand he was likely to be questioned and issued a press statement for pr purposes in an attempt to convince public opinion he was being co operative and had nothing to hide . I draw that conclusion from the fact the British DPP was his long time personal and party solicitor up until quite recently . I believe he was afforded great courtesy and a softly softly approach, unlike Ivor Bell, a 77 year old in very poor health who was dragged from his bed at gunpoint by the same people and taken away in handcuffs.

As neither Gerry Adams or his bought and paid for party poses any threat whatsoever to British rule or British interests I cant draw any conclusion that theyd seek to damage him .When its clear theyve often protected them.

Remember Sinn Fein sit at the highest level on the PSNI board . Theyre supposed to be holding them to account .Everytime they cry politicial policing when one of their own is hauled in its worth asking what their role on that body really is .


Finally please dont take this reply as an attack yourself . Its the subject matter that gets me animated, nothing more .

 

[Casually Red]

The boston tapes was a legit history project but had to remain secret hm goverment could choose to ignore it.
But the publishing of voices from the grave made it open season
Broke every fucking rule or guideline claiming boston college had any defence when the justice department came knocking is just
Even the most rudimentary legal advice could have prevented this farce.
Uk forces are not going to be prosecuted with the on the runs let off thats never going to happen not that is was very likely in the first place.

i think the strategy behind this move is stop any more people coming forward and hanging dirty laundry out for the future . The British side has as much invested in the accepted narrative as Sinn Fein has . The peace process it has to be remembered wasnt simply about defeating the provos . That could have been acheived at any time . The prize at stake was the ideological defeat of republicanism . To prevent another uprising taking the provos place, as always happened . Keeping the sinn fein narrative intact is essential to that process . Its an end of history thing . Ideological victory, not just physical . The object of the game is having republicans at long last accept the legitimacy of British rule in Ireland . That way its a lot less likely Britin will see any further challenges.

 

[likesfish]

I dont think the Bitish give two shits about Northern ireland if they could hand it over to the south they would be out of there in a heartbeat.
But is been gerrymandered too well the south cant afford it and until the unionists decide to chance sides. The UK is stuck with it.
The problem for republicanism is its seen as part of a sectarian struggle kind of difficult when the other side is playing the sectarian game..
The UK doesnt want another armed conflict which has the minority attempting to impose its will on the majority that is never going to happen.

 

[Casually Red]

i bet Adams breaks like a plate too . Hes probably squealing the house down

 

[Sprocket.]

i bet Adams breaks like a plate too . Hes probably squealing the house down

''It wasn't me, it wor them big lads that made me''

 

[Casually Red]

I dont think the Bitish give two shits about Northern ireland if they could hand it over to the south they would be out of there in a heartbeat.
But is been gerrymandered too well the south cant afford it and until the unionists decide to chance sides. The UK is stuck with it.
.

i think your 500 percent wrong there, and each and every British action proves it

The problem for republicanism is its seen as part of a sectarian struggle kind of difficult when the other side is playing the sectarian game..
The UK doesnt want another armed conflict which has the minority attempting to impose its will on the majority that is never going to happen

its seen as a sectarian conflict because that is how Britian has consistently protrayed it in order to justify their own presence . Youd need to go back and revise that one .

 

[Casually Red]

''It wasn't me, it wor them big lads that made me''

thats pretty much what he did during his brothers trial, bringing it to a shuddering halt and almost getting his own solicitor arrested

if hes under pressure hell break like a plate.

itll be a fucking laugh if hes begging to get on the RIRA wing in maghaberry over the weekend . Either that or hell be stuck with the nonces . Mind you his brothers down there so hell be alright .

 

[framed]

with respect I disagree, and theres a real danger the sentiments being spread by the Adams party machine seep into public discourse as accepted fact . Theres far too many shades of the lies that were spread about poor Brendan finally being reconciled with Gerry on his death bed and admitting he was used by others in that narrative thats been dutifully spread all over the place by the party machine . It should be firmly rejected in my view. For starters Brendan Hughes wasnt the only respected republican who took part in that project . In my view its quite insulting to the man to suggest he was anyones dupe . Something Im quite sure you dont want to do .
This was a period were sinn fein were sending people to his flat posing as old friends in order to bug it . A period were Sinn Fein were literally jumping down the throats of anyone suggesting Adams had ever been a member , there were even legal threats, solicitors letters . The entire history of the struggle and what happened had been wholly crafted in order to fit in with Adams ego and a massive lie . That there had been no betrayal, that the provos had won . The leadership were superheros . A completely fake narrative supported not only by the party machine but the state organs as well in many cases . Gerry Adams has written about 20 books, each and every one of them about himself .
An alternative narrative has been a pressing necessity for a very long time . Particularly given the grand scale of the lies that are casually accepted as given truths.

In my view Brendan Hughes, like a few others, felt they owed it to the Irish people and most particularly those who had suffered most to at least set the record straight . To not have a massive rotten lie taking centre stage as the accepted historical narrative of our nation for the future.

And as regards his memory being sullied Id take the view that once the likes of Adams and McGuiness physically embrace the apparatus of occupation, become embedded within it and physically part of it. When they actively encourage Irish citizens to join the occupation forces, become informants for those forces and legitmise the very occupation itself...when they stand over a system that imprisons and criminalises Irish republicans, and when they themselves criminalise and demonise republicans for that system, then all bets on loyalty and secrecy are off .

Oaths are as defunct as the same oaths Adams and McGuinness themselves reneged upon . Such leaders fully deserve to be exposed in my view . Absolutely zero loyalty is owed to them . These are people who Mo Mowlam in 1998 publicly thanked from the steps of Stormont for the information they were passing on other republicans . And people who from the same steps of Stormont denounced Irish republicans as traitors to Ireland, while flanked by Sir Hugh Orde and Peter Robinson . Brendan Hughes owed such people nothing . And what he did owe to the Irish people was the responsibilty to set the record straight so they didnt spend the next 50 years celebrating them as heroes.


I think SF may have to rethink their whole attitude to Truth and Reconciliation and the possibility of negotiating an amnesty across the board. That's the only way to stop these historical investigations from impacting upon republicans of all shades. However, a change in strategy also throws up the unedifying prospect of the party losing the support of family justice campaigns which demand the prosecution of state forces.

Again with respect, Provisional Sinn Fein have nothing left to negotiate with . It was announced during the week the Ballymurphy families and others can go take a running jump . The reason they face such a conundrum is that central to the sinn fein strategy was the legitmisation of British rule and an attempt to rehabilitate it. An internal settlement they tried to portray like South Africa. Except the Irish struggle wasnt against aspects of British injustice, it was against British rule . Having accepted British rule theyre left with the fact people who resisted it commited crimes under British law .
Had there been an end to British rule then this would have been different . So its a circle that cant be squared . They built these peoples hopes up as a strategy to keep themselves afloat . Sooner or later theyll have to tell these people they shafted them . Its what happens when you lose .

As far as I know, Adams offered himself for questioning 6 weeks ago and the PSNI refused. Now, in the midst of an election campaign, they decide to call him in for questioning... draw your own conclusions.


Again with respect my only conclusion is Adams was advised beforehand he was likely to be questioned and issued a press statement for pr purposes in an attempt to convince public opinion he was being co operative and had nothing to hide . I draw that conclusion from the fact the British DPP was his long time personal and party solicitor up until quite recently . I believe he was afforded great courtesy and a softly softly approach, unlike Ivor Bell, a 77 year old in very poor health who was dragged from his bed at gunpoint by the same people and taken away in handcuffs.

As neither Gerry Adams or his bought and paid for party poses any threat whatsoever to British rule or British interests I cant draw any conclusion that theyd seek to damage him .When its clear theyve often protected them.

Remember Sinn Fein sit at the highest level on the PSNI board . Theyre supposed to be holding them to account .Everytime they cry politicial policing when one of their own is hauled in its worth asking what their role on that body really is .


Finally please dont take this reply as an attack yourself . Its the subject matter that gets me animated, nothing more .

I take all of those points on board, they are fair and well put.

My point about Brendan's misjudgement in this instance was not meant to mirror the 'death bed reconciliation' nonsense put about by SF after his death (a 'reconciliation' that didn't stop them labeling him a 'tout' when the Boston tapes and Voice From The Grave were published). You say that he wanted to set the record straight, but tbh I can't see any purpose served by revealing the details of the McConville killing.

 

[Sprocket.]

Is The Disappeared available to watch online anywhere?

Sadly not at this moment in time. But with the renewed interest RTE or the BBC may give this episode of Storyville another airing.
Well worth watching.

 

[toggle]

Voices from the grave was an unbeliably stupid move and decent legal advice at the beginning of the boston tapes might have helped.

which BC should have done if the project was being done in their name. but it was being run completely at arms length.

IIRC, there was a clear hint that one of the other tapes contained more info about Mconnville.

I take all of those points on board, they are fair and well put.

My point about Brendan's misjudgement in this instance was not meant to mirror the 'death bed reconciliation' nonsense put about by SF after his death (a 'reconciliation' that didn't stop them labeling him a 'tout' when the Boston tapes and Voice From The Grave were published). You say that he wanted to set the record straight, but tbh I can't see any purpose served by revealing the details of the McConville killing.

i think he wanted to make it very, very clear that adams was not the man that he was being portrayed as. he wasn't a man that had no actual connection with actual violence, he wasn't a man able to seek compromise, having accidently been in the right position at the right time. it was all about exploding the myth of adams the peacemaker. and making it known that he was the bloke who ordered a killing that was one of their more divisive/questionable acts among their own community (or at least that's the impression I've got) he hoped to make sure that he could get a fair few steps past the 'adams was in the ira- so fuckign what' thing.

i think your 500 percent wrong there, and each and every British action proves it
The problem for republicanism is its seen as part of a sectarian struggle kind of difficult when the other side is playing the sectarian game..
The UK doesnt want another armed conflict which has the minority attempting to impose its will on the majority that is never going to happen

its seen as a sectarian conflict because that is how Britian has consistently protrayed it in order to justify their own presence . Youd need to go back and revise that one .

you need to seperate gvt actions from the people, likesfish, i think is talking about the british people, you're talking about the gvt. the gvt has made it a matter of honour over a very long period that they had to protect the protestants from catholic ascendency in this delightful white man's burden thing - you just can't be trusted not to treat them like second class citizens, even after the dublin gvt prooved exactly how much that was bullshit.

apart from a small class of tory nationalist supremacists, the british people would be happy for anyhting that would make the place 'someone else's problem'. they feel no kinship to the Unionists. they are loyal to a nation that for the most part considers them an embarassment.

thing is though, gvts still play the same games over and over again. we let you have exactly what you want, and we make it open season for everyone else to make demands. I'm looking through the HR debate period and it was cycles of national pride and self protection, feeding off each other in demanding that we created perceptions that the gct did not capitulate. every imperial adventure created a new cycle. and this is till ongoing. because the only people that support the gvt policies in NI is the people who think the world really was a better place when Britannia rules the waves.

 

[Frankie Jack]

Some of Storyvilles The Disappeared here.

http://thedisappearedni.co.uk/the-disappeared-bbc-storyville-interviews/