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General Dulwich Hamlet chat

Christian Burt said:
I could be wrong here, but the 12th Man scheme is separate from the club.
It has no contractual obligation to the club, and conversely, it is not down to the club to advertise anyone to "take over" the 12th Man scheme. I believe it's main function was that Gav could approach the 12th Man scheme for funding for a targeted player(s).
Considering we are financially healthy with a decent playing budget (compared to many others in the NLS), the 12th Man being on a hiatus is not really a major issue.
Happy to be told I'm talking out of my backside!
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Think these are all fair points which I'd overlooked when making my original post above re. advertising for roles.
 
StephenMac said:
Peter Taylor is Welling's new manager having presumably found himself at a loose end. This despite zany owner Mark Goldberg himself presiding over an impressive 6-0 home defeat to Dartford on Saturday.

This probably doesn't go here, does it? I couldn't find a thread specifically about egocentric club owners appointing well-known managers of yesteryear.
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We're away to Welling on Boxing Day. I wonder how many times Dulwich have faced sides coached by ex-England managers?
 
Al Crane said:
Think these are all fair points which I'd overlooked when making my original post above re. advertising for roles.
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Agree - but it does seem odd to me that a long-running scheme that fans have contributed a lot of money to over the years appears to have vanished without anything being communicated to the fans. Perhaps it's still felt that taking change from fans isn't Covid-safe, which is totally fair enough (that's what was spoken about in their last tweet, albeit that was from from 18 months ago), and a lot of people don't even carry change any more. Still, they do still have their PayPal donation link at the top of their page.
 
I wonder if they'll ever include a link to this 'unofficial forum' anywhere on their website.

It's probably one of the biggest/busiest forums at this level (nearly 80,000 posts on 1,300 topics in 7 years) so it seems strange to have no mention of it anywhere at all.
 
Probably not. I used to do the match reports and the website for a fans site for a non-league club in Scotland. We were unofficial unless we were prepared to hand over editorial control. I once got called into the managers office to explain myself....I'm not saying the DHFC people are cut from the same cloth but it presents challenges for them to be fair.
 
Stuart Fordyce said:
Probably not. I used to do the match reports and the website for a fans site for a non-league club in Scotland. We were unofficial unless we were prepared to hand over editorial control. I once got called into the managers office to explain myself....I'm not saying the DHFC people are cut from the same cloth but it presents challenges for them to be fair.
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I've seen plenty of links to unofficial forums from club websites, eg this one). Given (a) the relative extreme politeness of this forum (b) its popularity (c) its moderation policies that swiftly remove any racist loons (d) the extensive coverage and comment each game gets and (e) Hamlet's claims to be an inclusive, welcoming and different sort of club, I do remain a little baffled why it continues to have zero references on their site (with the usual disclaimers) .

If it was my club, I'd see it as a useful asset that I may not always agree with but one that adds interesting colour, debate and engagement to the club, particularly given its links to all the Brixton Buzz coverage.
 
blueheaven said:
Agree - but it does seem odd to me that a long-running scheme that fans have contributed a lot of money to over the years appears to have vanished without anything being communicated to the fans. Perhaps it's still felt that taking change from fans isn't Covid-safe, which is totally fair enough (that's what was spoken about in their last tweet, albeit that was from from 18 months ago), and a lot of people don't even carry change any more. Still, they do still have their PayPal donation link at the top of their page.
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The 12th Man was a completely independent initiative set up by two supporters. If anything needs to be communicated to the supporters regarding its status or future that message should originate from Neil & Shaun, not DHFC or DHST.
 
editor said:
I've seen plenty of links to unofficial forums from club websites, eg this one). Given (a) the relative extreme politeness of this forum (b) its popularity (c) its moderation policies that swiftly remove any racist loons (d) the extensive coverage and comment each game gets and (e) Hamlet's claims to be an inclusive, welcoming and different sort of club, I do remain a little baffled why it continues to have zero references on their site (with the usual disclaimers) .

If it was my club, I'd see it as a useful asset that I may not always agree with but one that adds interesting colour, debate and engagement to the club, particularly given its links to all the Brixton Buzz coverage.
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I'd question whether or not this forum is at all "polite" after some of the comments I've seen in recent weeks; it's resembled a rantfest for malcontents at times. Even accepting points b, c, d and e, I don't think many clubs of our stature will accept a direct link to an unofficial/independent fans forum on their website. (Poole and Royston are both much smaller clubs with a fraction of our average attendance, and I suspect they're the exception even at their own level.) The main issue is likely to be the probability of complaints from other clubs, which may well be very petty or spurious, and the escalating of such complaints to the National League or FA. I'm not especially saying the forum should not be linked, just giving the likely reasons why any club might not wish to link it.
 
Pink Panther said:
The 12th Man was a completely independent initiative set up by two supporters. If anything needs to be communicated to the supporters regarding its status or future that message should originate from Neil & Shaun, not DHFC or DHST.
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Totally appreciate that, but wasn't suggesting it should be the club or supporter's trust who say anything. Just that it's odd that nothing has been said.
 
Pink Panther said:
I'd question whether or not this forum is at all "polite" after some of the comments I've seen in recent weeks; it's resembled a rantfest for malcontents at times. Even accepting points b, c, d and e, I don't think many clubs of our stature will accept a direct link to an unofficial/independent fans forum on their website. (Poole and Royston are both much smaller clubs with a fraction of our average attendance, and I suspect they're the exception even at their own level.) The main issue is likely to be the probability of complaints from other clubs, which may well be very petty or spurious, and the escalating of such complaints to the National League or FA. I'm not especially saying the forum should not be linked, just giving the likely reasons why any club might not wish to link it.
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They never included a link when we lurking in the lower leagues either, with much smaller attendances.

And I can't see any substance to your suggestion that other clubs will complain if there is a clear disclaimer on the link.
 
Pink Panther said:
I'd question whether or not this forum is at all "polite" after some of the comments I've seen in recent weeks; it's resembled a rantfest for malcontents at times. Even accepting points b, c, d and e, I don't think many clubs of our stature will accept a direct link to an unofficial/independent fans forum on their website. (Poole and Royston are both much smaller clubs with a fraction of our average attendance, and I suspect they're the exception even at their own level.) The main issue is likely to be the probability of complaints from other clubs, which may well be very petty or spurious, and the escalating of such complaints to the National League or FA. I'm not especially saying the forum should not be linked, just giving the likely reasons why any club might not wish to link it.
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Criticism of the club dismissed as rantfests. Not sure when you became such an apologist for the club, but presumably since taking helping out with the club on matchdays.
 
editor said:
I've seen plenty of links to unofficial forums from club websites, eg this one). Given (a) the relative extreme politeness of this forum (b) its popularity (c) its moderation policies that swiftly remove any racist loons (d) the extensive coverage and comment each game gets and (e) Hamlet's claims to be an inclusive, welcoming and different sort of club, I do remain a little baffled why it continues to have zero references on their site (with the usual disclaimers) .

If it was my club, I'd see it as a useful asset that I may not always agree with but one that adds interesting colour, debate and engagement to the club, particularly given its links to all the Brixton Buzz coverage.
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Presume you have asked relevant people, and been told no?
 
editor said:
They never included a link when we lurking in the lower leagues either, with much smaller attendances.

And I can't see any substance to your suggestion that other clubs will complain if there is a clear disclaimer on the link.
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What was the club's response when you asked them, back when we were in the 'lower leagues'?
 
pettyboy said:
What was the club's response when you asked them, back when we were in the 'lower leagues'?
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Their previous website had a link to the old, very basic forum that was around and I asked if this one could be added.

I was told it would be, but it never was.

I'll admit that I'm clearly biased here as I'm involved in the running of this forum, but I honestly do find it odd that with Hamlet's values of doing things differently, this is one community they have little interest in engaging with in any way at all. And it is literally full of their fans and the people putting money into the club every week.

After all it was good enough for the commander of Lambeth Police!
 
editor said:
They never included a link when we lurking in the lower leagues either, with much smaller attendances.

And I can't see any substance to your suggestion that other clubs will complain if there is a clear disclaimer on the link.
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Surely we've been through all this before, probably some years back now? You'll forgive me if I don't trawl through the forum to find it but I don't remember much enthusiasm for the suggestion.

I get that it might boost traffic to an extent to what is your website, and that obviously appeals to you but I can't see any other benefit.

An agreement to meet your request would surely and understandably come with conditions from the club which couldn't possibly strengthen the independence of this forum.

Also, does the club website see much traffic these days anyway? I literally never use it and can't remember when I last did. I think it's still that identikit Pitchero nightmare and anything useful on it either ends up being available via social media eg match previews. If I want to know who we're playing three weeks in advance I just type 'dhfc fixtures' into my search engine and voila.

And I'm fairly sure that I found this forum with ease on my way home from my first game as well and I'm no (insert name of famous internet person here).

It's to your credit that you provide an entirely independent, easy-to-find forum here full of, cough, irreverence. I don't see an argument to change that.
 
StephenMac said:
Surely we've been through all this before, probably some years back now? You'll forgive me if I don't trawl through the forum to find it but I don't remember much enthusiasm for the suggestion.

I get that it might boost traffic to an extent to what is your website, and that obviously appeals to you but I can't see any other benefit.

An agreement to meet your request would surely and understandably come with conditions from the club which couldn't possibly strengthen the independence of this forum.

Also, does the club website see much traffic these days anyway? I literally never use it and can't remember when I last did. I think it's still that identikit Pitchero nightmare and anything useful on it either ends up being available via social media eg match previews. If I want to know who we're playing three weeks in advance I just type 'dhfc fixtures' into my search engine and voila.

And I'm fairly sure that I found this forum with ease on my way home from my first game as well and I'm no (insert name of famous internet person here).

It's to your credit that you provide an entirely independent, easy-to-find forum here full of, cough, irreverence. I don't see an argument to change that.
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No idea why a non league football club has to draw up a contact with conditions to add a caveat-laden link to an outside website (the BBC, for example, have linked to this forum many times), and no, my primary goal is absolutely not to increase traffic to this site (which I make no money from, however high the traffic is).

You might think it odd, but I'm actually proud of this forum. I think it's one of the best non-league forums and - to repeat myself - I remain baffled why it's something that a club like Hamlet want nothing to do with.

You - and the club - clearly have a different opinion, so that's the end of the discussion, really.
 
B.I.G said:
Criticism of the club dismissed as rantfests. Not sure when you became such an apologist for the club, but presumably since taking helping out with the club on matchdays.
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Give it a fucking rest Michael. You're my mate and all but you just keep pushing it for reasons that only you will know.

You will argue up is down if it suits your needs.

Example 1: You used to piss and moan about the existence of the hammer and sickle stencil. Now it suits your agenda you are outraged that it's been removed.

Example 2: We've discussed the club linking to this forum in the past. You thought it was a bollocks idea then. Now you're a fan of the idea?

And now you're slandering PP, the personification of someone who bleeds pink and blue, who has stepped up to do match day announcing while it's not possible for the usual announcer to carry out their duties for very good reason. Fucking hell.

I've lost count of the number of people who've said to me that you often have a kernel of something worth saying and then entirely undermine yourself and any genuine point with all the ad hominem bullshit. It happens every fucking game, like I'm your match-going ambassador or something, and all too often I defend you out of what increasingly feels like misplaced loyalty.

No idea what you're looking to achieve other than alleviating your boredom but it's all got very old.
 
editor said:
No idea why a non league football club has to draw up a contact with conditions to add a caveat-laden link to an outside website (the BBC, for example, have linked to this forum many times), and no, my primary goal is absolutely not to increase traffic to this site (which I make no money from, however high the traffic is).

You might think it odd, but I'm actually proud of this forum. I think it's one of the best non-league forums and - to repeat myself - I remain baffled why it's something that a club like Hamlet want nothing to do with.

You - and the club - clearly have a different opinion, so that's the end of the discussion, really.
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Man starts discussion-
man doesn't like discussion - so man ends discussion. Right you are.

I didn't say you make money from the forum, I know that you don't. If you weren't so puzzlingly defensive you'd see that I all but said you should be proud of it. Jeez.
 
StephenMac said:
Man starts discussion-
man doesn't like discussion - so man ends discussion. Right you are.

I didn't say you make money from the forum, I know that you don't. If you weren't so puzzlingly defensive you'd see that I all but said you should be proud of it. Jeez.
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Sorry what more is there to add? You think Hamlet should have absolutely nothing to do with this forum. I disagree and have explained why, in some detail. That is why there is no point continuing the discussion, but feel free to point out what essential points I've missed that are worthy of further debate.

And you seem puzzlingly argumentative about it all, to be honest.
 
Pink Panther said:
I'm not an apologist for the club. Criticism can be constructive, or it can be ludicrous and irrational, and I don't like people standing outside the tent pissing in.
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So if you aren't going to games you are "pissing in". I look forward to you mentioning this everytime Roger D makes a comment or indeed asking anyone when the last time they went to a game.

A ludicrous and irrational opinion was when you wanted the Dulwich game to go ahead immediately before lockdown.

The problem with the club hierarchy is that they aren't interested in alternative points of view, which is why things like the Peter Crouch documentary occurs because they didn't seek opinions from anyone that would have opposed it, and that's because Clasper is only interested in surrounding himself with people just like him.
 
StephenMac said:
Give it a fucking rest Michael. You're my mate and all but you just keep pushing it for reasons that only you will know.

You will argue up is down if it suits your needs.

Example 1: You used to piss and moan about the existence of the hammer and sickle stencil. Now it suits your agenda you are outraged that it's been removed.

Example 2: We've discussed the club linking to this forum in the past. You thought it was a bollocks idea then. Now you're a fan of the idea?

And now you're slandering PP, the personification of someone who bleeds pink and blue, who has stepped up to do match day announcing while it's not possible for the usual announcer to carry out their duties for very good reason. Fucking hell.

I've lost count of the number of people who've said to me that you often have a kernel of something worth saying and then entirely undermine yourself and any genuine point with all the ad hominem bullshit. It happens every fucking game, like I'm your match-going ambassador or something, and all too often I defend you out of what increasingly feels like misplaced loyalty.

No idea what you're looking to achieve other than alleviating your boredom but it's all got very old.
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No doubt you will be able to point to examples of this criticism of the hammer and sickle stencil, since I know who put it there, and not once did I tell them it was rubbish I must have somehow forgotten to have expressed this opinion.

And I have no opinion on the club linking to the forum and haven't even expressed an opinion on here since it came up.

I wouldn't talk to these people if I were you that want to discuss what I have to say, I assume they aren't capable of messaging me themselves.
 
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