Stuart Fordyce
Well-Known Member
We've been at this level for a few years now - when do we stop harking back to promotions?
Gavin Rose leaves Dulwich Hamlet and new interim coach appointed
- Thread starter sleaterkinney
- Start date
ska invita
back on the other side
Dulwich have gone up two flights in a decade! Incredible achievement.
The moan driven drive for constant promotion will be the death of whats good about the club - arguably it already is.
There was a good point a few years ago when everyone was cheering and singing whatever the results. Moaning about results brings you in with all the other drab football teams out there. Reliance on constant winning and promotion dont bring happiness in football - the vast majority of teams regularly dont win leagues!! If people want endless good results support Man City or whatever.
What do people want from this club? What level in your wildest dreams would you like the club to play at?
ska invita
back on the other side
Probably get what appears a more competent team if went back down a division playing against lesser teams.
Gavin's record - back to back playoffs and promotions:
2011-12 Not promoted after play-offs (SF Dulwich Hamlet 2 Folkestone
Invicta 1, F Bognor Regis Town 1 Dulwich Hamlet 0)
2012-13 Isthmian League Division One South Champions
Promoted to Premier Division
2014-15 Not promoted after play-offs (SF Margate 2 Dulwich Hamlet 1)
2015-16 Not promoted after play-offs (SF Bognor Regis Town 0 Dulwich Hamlet 1,
F East Thurrock United 3 Dulwich Hamlet 1)
2016-17 Not promoted after play-offs (SF Dulwich Hamlet 4 Enfield Town 1,
F Bognor Regis Town 2 Dulwich Hamlet 1)
2017-18 Isthmian League runner-up
Promoted to National League South after play-offs (SF Dulwich Hamlet 1
Leiston 0, F Dulwich Hamlet 1 Hendon 1, Dulwich Hamlet won 4-3 on
penalties)
2019-20 Season ended early to due Covid-19 virus. League decided on a
points per game basis
Gavin's record - back to back playoffs and promotions:
2011-12 Not promoted after play-offs (SF Dulwich Hamlet 2 Folkestone
Invicta 1, F Bognor Regis Town 1 Dulwich Hamlet 0)
2012-13 Isthmian League Division One South Champions
Promoted to Premier Division
2014-15 Not promoted after play-offs (SF Margate 2 Dulwich Hamlet 1)
2015-16 Not promoted after play-offs (SF Bognor Regis Town 0 Dulwich Hamlet 1,
F East Thurrock United 3 Dulwich Hamlet 1)
2016-17 Not promoted after play-offs (SF Dulwich Hamlet 4 Enfield Town 1,
F Bognor Regis Town 2 Dulwich Hamlet 1)
2017-18 Isthmian League runner-up
Promoted to National League South after play-offs (SF Dulwich Hamlet 1
Leiston 0, F Dulwich Hamlet 1 Hendon 1, Dulwich Hamlet won 4-3 on
penalties)
2019-20 Season ended early to due Covid-19 virus. League decided on a
points per game basis
editor
hiraethified
I'll never forgive him for drafting in two journeymen players on the eve of the Carlisle FA Cup tie. That was a really fucking shitty thing to do.
Ben Caldecourt
Well-Known Member
It's not about promotion and if you think it is then you've got the complete wrong end of the stick.
I think the fans (those that bother to pay attention to the football anyway) want a team that looks structured and well organised. Nobody is asking to win every game of football, that's impossible. But we look spineless and have done the majority of our time in the NLS. Passion seems to have completely disappeared from the pitch and the connection between fans and players is so far from what it previously was it's actually unappealing. The football is not attractive and quite frankly not enjoyable.
I think what partly annoys fans (and rightly so) is that this isn't a free day out at the football. If you're going to these games you're typically look at a ticket between £12-18, travel money, money on refreshments and alcohol. Some go large, some don't. Saturday was a complete waste of an afternoon and I've said that so many times over the last few years it has lead me to not wanting to club that I've been supporting since I was 6 years old. That is a problem? Why are loyal fans falling out of love with a club that they have supported and followed since early ages.
tonysingh
Random Clever and Witty Strapline
So basically be quiet and just accept getting tubbed regularly? Well, be quiet aside from erupting into orgasmic applause when we've lost 1-4 to a team much worse than us again.
There's an obvious difference between getting humped by a team that's clearly miles ahead of us and then doing it at teams we really should be at least competing with.
I appreciate Gavin and his staff for what they've done but all that shows is that with him at the helm we've reached a level he can't push past
It's time for someone new to take over.
Not sure that was luck. Think it was Gavin's contacts and reputation. Erhun respected him enough to take Gavin's advice to spend an extra year with DHFC getting used to men's football before turning pro. I believe Erhun had opportunities to leave the summer before he did.
Not suggesting signing Erhun years ago should be the deciding point in any managerial debate, but also I'm not sure it's fair to call the signing / retention of Erhun luck.
blueheaven
Well-Known Member
Sorry but when I support a football team I want that team and the people running it to do their best to win games and be successful. I don't necessarily expect success, but I do expect a club to do its best to attain it. Personally I think it's reasonable to expect this club to be aiming for the top half of the table and to be challenging for the play-off positions.
If we're all just going to say we're happy regardless of results on the pitch, then what's really the point of being involved in competitions at all?
tonysingh
Random Clever and Witty Strapline
I meant more luck he was able to attract that quality at that point. No Erhun= no promotion was more my point I think.
Depends what the targets are whether it’s success or failure. If most of the time since promotion there has been an agreed target of the play offs then that’s not success.
Cyclodunc
Where's the slam tent, mate?
Ah, righto
Cyclodunc
Where's the slam tent, mate?
You’ve missed seasons ‘13-‘14, ‘18-‘19, ‘20-‘21 and ‘21-‘22.
Under a different manager, you might get more impressive results. If Gavin’s “level” is the Isthmian then he’s shown he can manage well there. Why do you have to return to a lower league to get a more competent team when you can change coaching/managerial staff?
It’s actually a board decision on which Ben doesn’t always vote. Still let’s bring back McCormack, Mudroglu and Dye. Those were the days
I am certainly relieved that Ben "doesn't always vote". It certainly explains the fact we will have Gavin in charge for this season and next.
scousedom
Well-Known Member
I think it’s just a technicality. Convention has it that the Chairman doesn’t vote until he eventually gives the manager his football-cliche Vote of Confidence. Then he votes the other way a week later.
pitchfork
Well-Known Member
The club has forgotten its core business which is football. The balance has shifted now, when it doesn’t matter what happens on the pitch the numbers turning up keep going up. This means those overseeing the club have no real concern regarding results as the gate money, publicity etc… keeps rolling in.
I wonder what would happen if the fans started moving away I’m sure you would see a response then!
I wonder what would happen if the fans started moving away I’m sure you would see a response then!
ska invita
back on the other side
average would 33% win, 33% draw, 33% lose. soi a little below average in a better league
Nottingham Forest are going to get worst results than that this season but their fans will love it
to the comment about tickets are expensive we deserve wins, i say pray for relegation, get the ticket price down a bit and get more chances to see some goals
scousedom
Well-Known Member
Nottingham Forrest’s squad turnover will be far lower than Hamlet’s though.
As somebody who sits with the board I’ll cover a couple of points
1 I can assure you there is no loss of focus on winning football matches and many discussions take place about the need to please those who pay good money to come to games. After all, we are almost uniquely reliant on those fans coming to earn income and be able to compete on the pitch.
2. For scousedom. Having sat with and on the board/committee for many years, it is actually normal for the chairman to vote in all matters. They will normally have a second casting vote if the result is tied. The current Chairman does not intend to use his vote that way and relies on concensis amongst the other (currently 4) members.
It is obvious that the subject of winning matches and management are almost constant. Everybody wants to see a drastic improvement but the club also values loyalty and that works both ways. However nobody is untouchable.
The new one
Active Member
Well said liamdhfc
scousedom
Well-Known Member
Thanks Liam. I was being entirely serious so it’s good to have that cleared up.
pitchfork
Well-Known Member
Hmmm are we sure on the last point. What are the accountability lines regarding performance? Do you sit down with Gav and review his performance and set targets etc..? Or is left to his own devices whilst the club have responsibility for off the field matters?
Excellent point.
vornstyle76
Dundela FC, Transpontine Diaspora Brigade
Viewing from afar, the club as a whole has obviously hit a wall in Conference South, enough to extinguish the thrilling momentum that saw Dulwich constantly compete for promotion from March 2011 to 2018. That's the nature of getting promoted I guess. How much of this is because of the team management being better suited to the Isthmian, and how much because of the club being unable to compete with other teams' funding through owners and other non-gate receipt means?
Monkeygrinder's Organ
Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
In general (and not specific to Dulwich - as a Lincoln fan this is something I'm very familiar with) I tend to think the constant 'sack the manager' shouts are often a bit pathetic to be honest, and also that blaming the manager often covers up a multitude of other issues with the club. Specific to Dulwich for me getting two promotions (and just generally being part of the fabric of the club for so long) gets quite a lot of loyalty as far as I'm concerned. I also think you have to bear in mind that it's not like higher up the football pyramid where a sacked manager gets a big sack of cash and goes to play golf until the next spot opens up on the merry go round - these are people (assuming his team would go with him) who aren't making particularly big money I'd assume.
As Liam says nobody is untouchable but I'm not getting on a sack the manager bandwagon.
As Liam says nobody is untouchable but I'm not getting on a sack the manager bandwagon.
tonysingh
Random Clever and Witty Strapline
So how much time do we give Gavin? Enough that we get relegated? I'm not trying to be argumentative, honestly. I'm just curious how much he can dine out on two promotions etc?
ska invita
back on the other side
What would really be so wrong with that? What difference does it make?
Finished top half last season, an achievement in itself. No doubt will finish mid table again this year
