Gatwick Airport closed, because idiots are flying drones close to it.

[Saul Goodman]

The other day I helped someone book travel to the south of Germany going by train rather than flying.

What happened at Gatwick wasn't irrelevant to their decision.

They'll be travelling next week. If we're about to get into some extended disruption at Heathrow (I hope we are) then I'll be proven doubly right in my advice (not they needed a lot of persuading). Not only will it be less harmful for them to go by train but possibly less inconvenient too.

Have you been helping your imaginary friends catch imaginary trains, again?

 

[editor]

That was before these lot all bought Audis, took up golf and generally settled down to a quiet life of noshing off the status quo.

I don't even own a fucking car and do you see any cash-ins or adverts here?

 

[editor]

Indeed.

If, and it's a massive if at this point, this is done sort of eco/climate action, then there are many valid criticism s to be made of it as a tactic.

Causing inconvenience, however upsetting this may be for some hit by it, is fairly low down the list of reasons why this might not be be a good tactic.

Except no one has stepped up to take credit for the drone, so this is one big pointless 'what if' wankoff for the terminally beef laden.

 

[binka]

It's really not, but whatever. If you want to celebrate some twat with a drone making people's lives miserable for no good reason, you go right ahead.

I don't know if celebrating is the right word. If it is a climate protestor then it's pretty audacious because they are absolutely fucked when they get caught. I suppose I have to respect someone taking huge personal risk for a cause they believe in

 

[Pickman's model]

I wonder who reported the initial sighting today

 

[editor]

I don't know if celebrating is the right word. If it is a climate protestor then it's pretty audacious because they are absolutely fucked when they get caught. I suppose I have to respect someone taking huge personal risk for a cause they believe in

Except IT'S NOT HAPPENING.

 

[binka]

Except no one has stepped up to take credit for the drone, so this is one big pointless 'what if' wankoff for the terminally beef laden.

I hope you don't think my motivation is any sort of beef, I'm genuinely interested to know why people who might support climate / environmental non-violent direct action in the past wouldn't in this case (if that's what it is if course)

 

[binka]

Except IT'S NOT HAPPENING.

Yeah now it's not but when you first replied you thought it was so I was just curious why you were so angry about it

 

[SpookyFrank]

Except IT'S NOT HAPPENING.

Probably still worth getting upset about though, just in case it is.

 

[editor]

I hope you don't think my motivation is any sort of beef, I'm genuinely interested to know why people who might support climate / environmental non-violent direct action in the past wouldn't in this case (if that's what it is if course)

I support all sorts of direct action. But not this particular kind because I think it's counter-productive. Is that OK with you? Or does not endorsing every single possible action somehow make me some kind of beastly hypocrite?

 

[editor]

Probably still worth getting upset about though, just in case it is.

No need for you to get upset.

 

[Pickman's model]

I hope you don't think my motivation is any sort of beef, I'm genuinely interested to know why people who might support climate / environmental non-violent direct action in the past wouldn't in this case (if that's what it is if course)

chilango put his finger on it, mass action better than individual substitution. If I planted a bomb on a plane to be found and said there were hundreds of others I'd be vilified and rightly so, partly on the grounds of it being at best akin to terrorism, but also on the grounds of it having no lasting effect. If thousands of people act against air travel it will have more effect, even if I grounded 2000 flights and they ground 200 - they'll be able to discuss with friends and colleagues and the wider public while they took action but I'd have silenced myself, no one wants to be told what to do at the barrel of a gun or under threat of bomb attacks.

 

[teuchter]

chilango put his finger on it, mass action better than individual substitution. If I planted a bomb on a plane to be found and said there were hundreds of others I'd be vilified and rightly so, partly on the grounds of it being at best akin to terrorism, but also on the grounds of it having no lasting effect. If thousands of people act against air travel it will have more effect, even if I grounded 2000 flights and they ground 200 - they'll be able to discuss with friends and colleagues and the wider public while they took action but I'd have silenced myself, no one wants to be told what to do at the barrel of a gun or under threat of bomb attacks.

Quoted for the record and for future reference.

 

[Pickman's model]

Quoted for the record and for future reference.

One day it'd be nice to see you read something and think about it and offer a considered response. But - sadly - we both know that'll never happen.

 

[chilango]

Except no one has stepped up to take credit for the drone, so this is one big pointless 'what if' wankoff for the terminally beef laden.

Yeah. It's Its lack of "transparency" (who done it and why) is a valid criticism.

But, I think the "what if" is worth discussing, 'cos it raises interesting questions about means and ends that may need rethinking for the modern age. In the '90's we just didn't have access to this kinda tech.

 

[MickiQ]

Yup!

Easy for people used to driving around in their own cars and taking international flights to get behind strikes that disrupt public transport that they personally aren't completely reliant on. See how they react when something happens that actually totally stops them from doing stuff they want to though!

I totally and uneqivocally support the right of anyone to withdraw their labour. Any kind of fair employment law, indeed the concept of a free society is imperilled without such a right. Doesn't in way restrict my right to be pissed off with them when the fuckers stranded me at Euston Station overnight.

 

[Artaxerxes]

I don't know if celebrating is the right word. If it is a climate protestor then it's pretty audacious because they are absolutely fucked when they get caught. I suppose I have to respect someone taking huge personal risk for a cause they believe in

Bet the fucker eats Vegan sausage rolls as well! THE MONSTER!!!

 

[TopCat]

For me, the main reason that the comparison between this and RTS falls is not the inconvenience. That's fair (to a point) imho. I was party to some discussions about plans to gridlock London entirely. It didn't happen. But not because we wanted to avoid inconvenience. There were many of us who would've relished causing more disruption, more inconvenience, than we managed.

No, it's the individual nature of this versus the mass, collective nature of RTS. And that RTS was an open, transparent action.

...

 

[chilango]

But RTS was run by a small clique...

The organisation, in London, might well have been. But the concept, idea, action, manifestation etc. wasn't.

 

[TopCat]

The organisation, in London, might well have been. But the concept, idea, action, manifestation etc. wasn't.

agreed

 

[Spymaster]

That was before these lot all bought Audis, took up golf and generally settled down to a quiet life of noshing off the status quo.

What's wrong with noshing off Status Quo?

 

[Pickman's model]

What's wrong with noshing off Status Quo?

there was no need to nosh poor rick parfitt to death

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

That was before these lot all bought Audis, took up golf and generally settled down to a quiet life of noshing off the status quo.

An anarchist with an Audi is still a fucking Anarchist

 

[ElizabethofYork]

What's wrong with noshing off Status Quo?

 

[T & P]

An anarchist with an Audi is still a fucking Anarchist

In fact, given the usual regard for the laws of the road displayed by Audi drivers, one could say that an Audi is THE car for any self-respecting anarchist.

 

[kebabking]

In fact, given the usual regard for the laws of the road displayed by Audi drivers, one could say that an Audi is THE car for any self-respecting anarchist.

I must admit, having recently aquired a VAG car, that I have enjoyed enormously my new freedom to travel on A roads and motorways at the speed I deem appropriate rather than being constrained laws that no longer apply to me...

 

[skyscraper101]

I just had to google what a VAG car is

 

[mojo pixy]

I must admit, having recently aquired a VAG car, that I have enjoyed enormously my new freedom to travel on A roads and motorways at the speed I deem appropriate rather than being constrained laws that no longer apply to me...

That's why they want all of us in audis and they're always like get an audi, man. They hate being stuck behind us and want us driving like them
Bodysnatchers 21st century style...

 

[kebabking]

That's why they want all of us in audis and they're always like get an audi, man. They hate being stuck behind us and want us driving like them
Bodysnatchers 21st century style...

Good lord no, we don't want the executive lane getting clogged up with all the oiks - you stick to public transport and Vauxhalls, and be happy in your place.

 

[twentythreedom]

Don't buy an Audi ffs. Know your place; which is behind me