G20: Getting to the truth- the death of Ian Tomlinson RIP

[Callie]

I find that very hard to believe, considering the type of shops in the royal exchange. (tiffany, hermes and various other massively expensive establishments) that there is no CCTV keeping an eye on the passage at the rear of the building.

Every office building in the city has CCTV outside and inside. I've worked in a lot of them. i also find it difficult to believe there is no City of London CCTV in the area. It's just not right.

Mont Blanc to the left, Louis Vuitton to the left. Google streetview shows a camera on the building directly opposite (Cornhill Insurance). The question is were any cameras functioning and if they were could they capture the area where the incident occured - they don't always have a very large viewing area?

 

[William of Walworth]

Compare and spot the difference, if there is one:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...drunken-clash-officers-shortly-collapsed.html

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article2368505.ece

Innit. Where did this 'IT Worker Mr Hardy' emerge from?

Met or Col IT Department </speculation>

Or somewhere more subtle?

Alll the fingerprints of some Police Briefing, Mail and especially the Sun have long been NOTORIOUS for recycling Police tipoffs and spin uncritically ...

Why are you doing the same sonny61?

Your agenda being?

 

[William of Walworth]

I think they are both the same Media Corp who chummy up to Blair during the war years. I guess they are doing the same with Brown,

Sure but more interesting is the fairly obvious question of who's feeding them ....

 

[OneStrike]

Mont Blanc to the left, Louis Vuitton to the left. Google streetview shows a camera on the building directly opposite (Cornhill Insurance). The question is were any cameras functioning and if they were could they capture the area where the incident occured - they don't always have a very large viewing area?

Maybe i am being naive, i appreciate the shops cameras might only point to areas protecting the relevant premises. It's just that so close to the bank of England i'd assume all local streets are covered by an extensive camera network even on a normal day. You can't scratch your arse anywhere in my local town centre without being filmed. Maybe i should give the police more credit? clearly anyone with an interest in 'losing damning footage' had ample time to do so. As he stated, although it's now an independant enquiry City of London Police are still doing much of the investigating.

 

[xes]

Sure but more interesting is the fairly obvious question of who's feeding them ....

same lot who "feed" the BBC,CNN,FOX and pretty much all the MSM outlets. [/conspiraloon] (is it still a conspiracy?)

 

[FridgeMagnet]

There are so many cameras in the City that there are actually little cameras inside the bigger cameras, just in case anyone really tiny decides to do some terrorism behind the lens.

 

[maomao]

In which case he should be more honest about his deparately loaded agenda and SAY SO. Not doing so amounts to lying on his part ...

While Sonny is an arse and should be challenged (and even insulted) I think it's desperately unfair and not constructive to accuse every right wing poster of having 'an agenda'. It's a bit hysterical. It's a discussion board not a policy setting think tank.

 

[William of Walworth]

same lot who "feed" the BBC,CNN,FOX and pretty much all the MSM outlets. [/conspiraloon] (is it still a conspiracy?)

I was thinking more about 'Police sources', not always acknowleged in the meeja either.

 

[toblerone3]

I thought the protests were supposed to be about the big issues of the G20 and capitalism. Its got well and truly sidetracked now. This is going nowhere!

If you wanted to be conpiraloon about it. This whole thing could be seen as a diversion.

 

[William of Walworth]

I thought the protests were supposed to be about the big issues of the G20 and capitalism. Its got well and truly sidetracked now. This is going nowhere!

If you wanted to be conpiraloon about it. This whole thing could be seen as a diversion.

Mr Tomlinson's death is a diversion?

 

[laptop]

I think they are both the same Media Corp

It wouldn't have been worth spending the time writing a post if they were the same corporation, silly. Competing outlets running the same story is precisely what's interesting.

(I'm ignoring xes' well-known facility for understanding the internal structure of capitalist organisations and phenomena, for performing factual research and for seeing the difference between a stoned "what if, maan?" and an interesting discussion. Probably, I'm a lizard.)

 

[toblerone3]

Mr Tomlinson's death is a diversion?

The protests were not originally supposed to be about policing were they. So yes it is a diversion.

 

[Jon-of-arc]

I thought the protests were supposed to be about the big issues of the G20 and capitalism. Its got well and truly sidetracked now. This is going nowhere!

If you wanted to be conpiraloon about it. This whole thing could be seen as a diversion.

The press would have forgotten about the whole thing by now, if it weren't for this. This isn't really diversionary - it is a seperate story, connected but aside from the G20.

 

[OneStrike]

The protests were not originally supposed to be about policing were they. So yes it is a diversion.

I suppose I agree, the main effect had on parts of middle England is the apparent suprise at how police act and the powers they have in such incidents.

I'm not sure that the protests conveyed a clear enough message anyway to be honest.

 

[toblerone3]

The press would have forgotten about the whole thing by now, if it weren't for this. This isn't really diversionary - it is a seperate story, connected but aside from the G20.

I suppose I agree, the main effect had on parts of middle England is the apparent suprise at how police act and the powers they have in such incidents.

I'm not sure that the protests conveyed a clear enough message anyway to be honest.

I agree, I agree. I'll go away now.

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

I thought the protests were supposed to be about the big issues of the G20 and capitalism. Its got well and truly sidetracked now. This is going nowhere!

If you wanted to be conpiraloon about it. This whole thing could be seen as a diversion.

the protests might have been, this thread isn't. its fairly simple stuff tbh.

 

[Blagsta]

I thought the protests were supposed to be about the big issues of the G20 and capitalism. Its got well and truly sidetracked now. This is going nowhere!

If you wanted to be conpiraloon about it. This whole thing could be seen as a diversion.

You don't think how the police operate is connected?

 

[agricola]

Innit. Where did this 'IT Worker Mr Hardy' emerge from?

Met or Col IT Department </speculation>

Or somewhere more subtle?

Alll the fingerprints of some Police Briefing, Mail and especially the Sun have long been NOTORIOUS for recycling Police tipoffs and spin uncritically ...

Why are you doing the same sonny61?

Your agenda being?

Apologies for returning to the thread, but I think you credit sonny61 with too much influence - his earlier posts on this thread were just trolling. This is probably more of the same.

Compare and spot the difference, if there is one:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...collapsed.html

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...cle2368505.ece

They are both bad, but the Mail article is by some distance worse, especially the closing paragraph which must be one of the most vile statements ever committed by that paper to print. (edit: apologies, I must have read another mail article instead of the one you linked to - the one I was on about is this one)

 

[London_Calling]

The boss of the IPCC said on C4 news this evening that there are no CCTV cameras that can help their inquiry i.e. cctv doesn't cover the relevant area. I'm sure people will be checking that.

 

[e19896]

If the policeman is charged with anything, his defence team will use the fact that he was drunk and obstructing the police. They will allege he had a long history of alcoholism, and that he was drunk, was one of the reasons he fell so easily. If the prosecution use the video of him being pushed over, then the defence team will use the video of him drunk in the middle of the road blocking a police van, despite being asked to move. They will also jump on the fact , that it was not the first time he had obstructed the police, and may have possession of more videos of him.
The bummer about videos being used against the policeman, is that his defence can do the same to defend him.

Just pointing this fact out.

Something ive been giving a thought to likewise, look ive had a drink/drug addiction ive come into conflict with the police and others, now lets be clear on this because these are facts it dose not make the actions of The Police right in any circumstance, to judge a person or act to a person because of whom they are thought to be is wrong, therefore it is also wrong that the actions of The Police killed him no matter the fact or circumstance.

I posed the queston and ill ask you direct sonny61 if you was one of The Police in uniform would you have beaten the protesters? or would you have removed the uniform and refused to?

Ill give my honest reply here, i would have removed my uniform.

It remains a fact the actions of The Police and this means the whole, contributed or indeed killed Ian, and for me this proves direct the injustice of capitalism and why people was there protesting, i have an issue with there class, also an issue with some of what they was protesting about, but i will never have an issue in dealing with THE MURDERING SCUM who killed Ian on that day no matter the facts or circumstance.

 

[_pH_]

I thought the protests were supposed to be about the big issues of the G20 and capitalism. Its got well and truly sidetracked now. This is going nowhere!

If you wanted to be conpiraloon about it. This whole thing could be seen as a diversion.

The way the G20 policing was carried out is a huge part of the issue - the point of the police operation was to maintain the status quo and can't really be seen as impartial.

I've linked this one before on this thread, but to me the evidence is here:

http://www.cityoflondon.police.uk/CityPolice/Media/News/G20latest.htm

Who does it sound like the CoL Police were most concerned about? Protestors or captalism?

(sorry to quote this one at you again toblerone )

 

[laptop]

the Mail article is by some distance worse, especially the closing paragraph which must be one of the most vile statements ever committed by that paper to print.

They mentioned the blackshirts?

the last two pars of the story as I now have it are:

Brian Paddick, former deputy assistant commissioner at the Met, said the officer could potentially face a charge of manslaughter.

Labour MP David Winnick called for Home Secretary Jacqui Smith to make a full statement to the House of Commons after Easter. He said questions would be asked about 'misleading' police statements after Mr Tomlinson's death.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1168315

(url edited so it's quotable without screwing up)

It was the Ross Hardy quote that I find interesting. I should point out that quoting someone in print involves translating what they say from spoken to written English. So two publications of a quote are almost always different, until the canonical version is established. Here, they appear (though I haven't yet

 

[laptop]

Then there's the sidebar to the above-linked Mail story:

Against the law: Photographing a policeman

Anyone taking a picture of a police officer could, in theory, be arrested after a law was introduced earlier this year.

The legislation - section 76 of the Counter Terrorism Act - permits the arrest of anyone found 'eliciting, publishing or communicating information' relating to members of the Armed Forces, intelligence services and police officers, which is 'likely to be useful to a person committing or preparing an act of terrorism'.

The maximum jail sentence is ten years. Police say charges will only be brought when in the public interest.

Sweepstake on how long before someone's arrested for photographing an officer committing a crime? I give it a month - if it hasn't happened already.

 

[London_Calling]

So much speculation. Afaik, the key is the finding of the second post mortem. Especially if the photo journalist is correct in that Tomlinson was beaten by batons and knocked to the floor further up the passageway and before the filming began.

 

[toblerone3]

The way the G20 policing was carried out is a huge part of the issue - the point of the police operation was to maintain the status quo)

Maybe the police should be more radical!?

 

[agricola]

They mentioned the blackshirts?

the last two pars of the story as I now have it are

Sorry, I edited my post to add the story I was on about, got the two stories mixed up.

It was the Ross Hardy quote that I find interesting. I should point out that quoting someone in print involves translating what they say from spoken to written English. So two publications of a quote are almost always different, until the canonical version is established. Here, they appear (though I haven't yet

It could be that its just some reporter who has hawked the same story, with photos and quotes, to both papers - and the differences are just the filler that whichever work experience bod added to it to bulk it out.

 

[free spirit]

They mentioned the blackshirts?

the last two pars of the story as I now have it are:



It was the Ross Hardy quote that I find interesting. I should point out that quoting someone in print involves translating what they say from spoken to written English. So two publications of a quote are almost always different, until the canonical version is established. Here, they appear (though I haven't yet

agricola had quoted the wrong article... see his edit

had me a bit baffled too

 

[_pH_]

Maybe the police should be more radical!?

No, I'm not saying that, but a bit more impartiality would do!

 

[toblerone3]

The way the G20 policing was carried out is a huge part of the issue -

Who does it sound like the CoL Police were most concerned about? Protestors or captalism? )

I don't understand how a police force could possibly be concerned with capitalism.

Protestors were a physical presence in the City of London on the day. Capitalism is not really a policing issue.

What would you expect them to be doing?

 

[_pH_]

I don't understand how a police force could possibly be concerned with capitalism.

Protestors were a physical presence in the City of London on the day. Capitalism is not really a policing issue.

What would you expect them to be doing?

did you read the CoL police article i linked to?