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Full employment, without costing the taxman a penny?

TremulousTetra

prismatic universe
Have I got this right?

The total cost of jobseekers allowance to the government is 5 billion. The total cost of tax breaks to the big corporations is 25 billion.

Take the 25 billion off the people who can afford it, and give it to those who have no money, TO WORK. Full employment.
 
Have I got this right?

The total cost of jobseekers allowance to the government is 5 billion. The total cost of tax breaks to the big corporations is 25 billion.

Take the 25 billion off the people who can afford it, and give it to those who have no money, TO WORK. Full employment.

Why would they want to do that?
 
What chilango said. Businesses benefit from unemployment as it drives down wages. That's why they're always complaining of 'labour shortages'; in reality there is no such thing - just an unwillingness by them to train people on the job and pay a wage decent enough to attract workers from other industries.
 
What do you mean by "tax breaks to the big corporations", and how do you get to £25bn?

There are all sorts of ways in which taxation is tweaked, of course, but you can't just tot up the ways in which headline rates of corporation tax are mitigated and count that as available cash.
 
The tax breaks are bribes to make sure business stays here. They'd all be off like a shot without it (allegedly).
 
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The doc says that £25bn was given in tax breaks in the last budget. Perhaps the author means the reduction in corporation tax to 20%, but the cost for that was £400m a year at first, rising to £800m over time. And corporation tax reductions are hardly a "tax break". No idea otherwise. £25bn is the figure some tout for the total tax avoidance bill, although that's a completely different issue.

It's possible that the author of this deck is unreliable on some matters of fact.
 
The doc says that £25bn was given in tax breaks in the last budget. Perhaps the author means the reduction in corporation tax to 20%, but the cost for that was £400m a year at first, rising to £800m over time. And corporation tax reductions are hardly a "tax break". No idea otherwise. £25bn is the figure some tout for the total tax avoidance bill, although that's a completely different issue.

It's possible that the author of this deck is unreliable on some matters of fact.
yeah, think he might be referring to this http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...irms-25bn-taxes-As-families-chased-penny.html

The Daily Mail :-D
 
And Margaret Hodge. Not a woman to worry about accuracy when there's the chance of a good headline and some PAC grandstanding.
 
You are a such complacent , Daily Mail spouting, ignorant twat, Loom. All recent studies into the growing massive scale of (often perfectly "legal") tax avoidance by the superrich and multinational corporations come up with "tax avoided" figures which dwarf the sums mentioned by Resistance MP3. eg, From an article in the New Statesman way back in 25th November 2011;


"........ as nations across Europe feel the sting of reduced living standards, the true extent of global tax avoidance -- as revealed today by the Tax Justice Network -- will act to bolster feelings that such injustice can no longer be swept aside with the kind of insouciance Hayn displays.
The research, based on data from 145 countries, shows that tax evasion costs those nations $3.1 trillion annually. In the UK's case £69.9 billion is lost on a yearly basis in what the Tax Justice Network call the "shadow economy." That figure, they point out, "represents 56% of the country's total healthcare spend."
On the back of this report the Tax Justice Network has launched its campaign to Tackle Tax Havens. An initiative aimed at propelling tax avoidance up the political agenda by highlighting, in simple terms, the sheer scale of the sums involved and how they translate into increased cuts in public services for the rest of us."

This is obviously pretty guesstimated stuff. How could it be otherwise given the complex smoke and mirrors concealment surrounding the wealth hidden by the capitalist class from the tax authorities of our planet -and the complicity of their bribed placemen of the political class and the tax authorities themselves in this daylight robbery. But the conclusions are supported by many other research studies estimating how much superrich loot is hidden safe from the taxman in the many tax havens all over the world - many being British dependencies of one sort or another.

The important point is that the superrich and big corporations use legal and illegal means across the world to avoid contributing to the general social expenditure of individual states (eg, education, healthcare, roads, policing, welfare support, defence, etc, etc) without which their businesses simply couldn't function. Walmart for instance, one of the very wealthiest corporations on the planet, not only minimises its taxpaying liabilities through all the usual dodges, but its entire "business model" of minimum wage paying is predicated on exploiting "top-up" welfare payment systems like Family Credit in every state in which it operates and makes its massive profits. Silas Loom and his complacent ilk may wish to minimise and pooh pooh the significance of the ever accelerating escape of the superrich class and their corporations from contributing to the social costs of civilised society - but the long term consequences are of course profoundly civilisation destroying- as welfare systems and education and public infrastructure provision collapse from the lack of tax revenues to fund them.

Who you gonna call when the impoverished vengeful majority of citizens finally overrun the gated mansion communities of the rich ? Not the police for sure -- they'll have long ago been replaced by minimum wage private security guards, who will simply join the crowds in hustling the superrich forward to the waiting Madame Guillotine. Bring on the day ! hopefully there'll be a place for you in the queue too , Silas.
 
I'm quite sure we'd be on different sides of the barricades CTR, ayatollah, but you seem to be a little confused.

The source the OP used seemed to conflate tax breaks, tax reductions, tax mitigation and tax avoidance. That was the only point I was making. I wasn't commenting on - or seeking to minimise - the actual extent of either tax mitigation or evasion. Although Hodge certainly got some figures wrong and misunderstood others in having a pop at HMRC.
 
Why would they want to do that?
What chilango said. Businesses benefit from unemployment as it drives down wages. That's why they're always complaining of 'labour shortages'; in reality there is no such thing - just an unwillingness by them to train people on the job and pay a wage decent enough to attract workers from other industries.
so you don't believing using propaganda either?

it is the Tories who are claiming this is an issue spiralling out of control, so control it. The cost of doing so, is minimal to the budget.

You can go on then to make the Keynesian benefits of employing people, the multiplier effects.

I would you be against this, because it is "sowing illusions in the system"???
 
I'm quite sure we'd be on different sides of the barricades CTR, ayatollah, but you seem to be a little confused.

The source the OP used seemed to conflate tax breaks, tax reductions, tax mitigation and tax avoidance. That was the only point I was making. I wasn't commenting on - or seeking to minimise - the actual extent of either tax mitigation or evasion. Although Hodge certainly got some figures wrong and misunderstood others in having a pop at HMRC.
You are a such complacent , Daily Mail spouting, ignorant twat, Loom. All recent studies into the growing massive scale of (often perfectly "legal") tax avoidance by the superrich and multinational corporations come up with "tax avoided" figures which dwarf the sums mentioned by Resistance MP3. eg, From an article in the New Statesman way back in 25th November 2011;


"........ as nations across Europe feel the sting of reduced living standards, the true extent of global tax avoidance -- as revealed today by the Tax Justice Network -- will act to bolster feelings that such injustice can no longer be swept aside with the kind of insouciance Hayn displays.
The research, based on data from 145 countries, shows that tax evasion costs those nations $3.1 trillion annually. In the UK's case £69.9 billion is lost on a yearly basis in what the Tax Justice Network call the "shadow economy." That figure, they point out, "represents 56% of the country's total healthcare spend."
On the back of this report the Tax Justice Network has launched its campaign to Tackle Tax Havens. An initiative aimed at propelling tax avoidance up the political agenda by highlighting, in simple terms, the sheer scale of the sums involved and how they translate into increased cuts in public services for the rest of us."

This is obviously pretty guesstimated stuff. How could it be otherwise given the complex smoke and mirrors concealment surrounding the wealth hidden by the capitalist class from the tax authorities of our planet -and the complicity of their bribed placemen of the political class and the tax authorities themselves in this daylight robbery. But the conclusions are supported by many other research studies estimating how much superrich loot is hidden safe from the taxman in the many tax havens all over the world - many being British dependencies of one sort or another.

The important point is that the superrich and big corporations use legal and illegal means across the world to avoid contributing to the general social expenditure of individual states (eg, education, healthcare, roads, policing, welfare support, defence, etc, etc) without which their businesses simply couldn't function. Walmart for instance, one of the very wealthiest corporations on the planet, not only minimises its taxpaying liabilities through all the usual dodges, but its entire "business model" of minimum wage paying is predicated on exploiting "top-up" welfare payment systems like Family Credit in every state in which it operates and makes its massive profits. Silas Loom and his complacent ilk may wish to minimise and pooh pooh the significance of the ever accelerating escape of the superrich class and their corporations from contributing to the social costs of civilised society - but the long term consequences are of course profoundly civilisation destroying- as welfare systems and education and public infrastructure provision collapse from the lack of tax revenues to fund them.

Who you gonna call when the impoverished vengeful majority of citizens finally overrun the gated mansion communities of the rich ? Not the police for sure -- they'll have long ago been replaced by minimum wage private security guards, who will simply join the crowds in hustling the superrich forward to the waiting Madame Guillotine. Bring on the day ! hopefully there'll be a place for you in the queue too , Silas.
stick to your usually good posts ayatollah, they carry more weight than abuse. :)
 
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