Football Lads Against Fascism
- Thread starter Red About Town
- Start date
On the 31st October a gathering of neo-Nazis in SevenOaks, Kent was confronted and smashed by #FLAF, London Antifascists and others.
During 2020 a new party has emerged on the far-right, Patriotic Alternative. Founded and led by former members of the BNP, its ideology includes the repatriation of non-whites as well as heavy doses of anti Semitic conspiracy. A key part of their strategy for growth is hosting hikes and outings with a view to radicalising and organising fascists and bringing people from online into real life activism.
It was at one of these jolly jaunts in the countryside that a firm of twenty FLAF and a similar number of other like-minded folk decided to throw a spanner in their works. PA’s hapless regional organiser and his pals were left strewn on the floor; battered, outgunned and utterly humiliated. What was supposed to be a scene from Country Living ended up more like Stalingrad (with the Nazis losing again!).
FLAF was formed to counteract attempts by the far-right to hijack our sport for their own ideology and football will always remain our primary focus. However, we remember the BNP and many of us remember the National Front and we’ll be damned if we will allow a bunch of would-be Hipster Hitlers to rebuild a neo-Nazi party in Britain. Not on our watch. We are fully prepared to tackle fascism wherever it tries to gain a foothold.
Today was a warning, Patriotic Alternative and their mates are put on notice. Expect us
During 2020 a new party has emerged on the far-right, Patriotic Alternative. Founded and led by former members of the BNP, its ideology includes the repatriation of non-whites as well as heavy doses of anti Semitic conspiracy. A key part of their strategy for growth is hosting hikes and outings with a view to radicalising and organising fascists and bringing people from online into real life activism.
It was at one of these jolly jaunts in the countryside that a firm of twenty FLAF and a similar number of other like-minded folk decided to throw a spanner in their works. PA’s hapless regional organiser and his pals were left strewn on the floor; battered, outgunned and utterly humiliated. What was supposed to be a scene from Country Living ended up more like Stalingrad (with the Nazis losing again!).
FLAF was formed to counteract attempts by the far-right to hijack our sport for their own ideology and football will always remain our primary focus. However, we remember the BNP and many of us remember the National Front and we’ll be damned if we will allow a bunch of would-be Hipster Hitlers to rebuild a neo-Nazi party in Britain. Not on our watch. We are fully prepared to tackle fascism wherever it tries to gain a foothold.
Today was a warning, Patriotic Alternative and their mates are put on notice. Expect us
splonkydoo
Well-Known Member
IN THE LAST MONTH, BLACK LIVES MATTER PROTESTS HAVE SPREAD TO EVERY CORNER OF WALES, WITH THOUSANDS MOBILISING TO TAKE A STAND AGAINST STRUCTURAL RACISM. YET WALES HAS A RICH HISTORY WHEN IT COMES TO PROTEST, PARTICULARLY ANTI-FASCISM, YET IT IS ONE - OF MANY HISTORIES - LEFT OUT OF SCHOOL CURRICULA. GLYN OWEN WEAVES TOGETHER A VIBRANT TAPESTRY OF WALES’ PAST AND THE LEGACY OF ANTIFA IN WALES...
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
New t-shirt from Calton Books in Glasgow.
www.calton-books.co.uk
Subbuteo FLAF t-shirt
UNITED WORKING CLASS, radical, bookshop, books, clothing, flags, , Anarchist, Irish Republican, Marxist, Communist, Socialist, Enviroment,
www.calton-books.co.uk
ENGLAND BELONGS TO US
By Jim – London FLAF [Leeds & England fan]
For many on the left, supporting the England football side hasn’t been easy. Particularly in the years when following England away was associated with football violence and the far-right. I haven’t always found it easy either, having been born in a different country. The year I attended my first England game was 1995, the same year neo-Nazi gang Combat 18 started a riot among England fans at Landsowne Road in Dublin. My school had been offered tickets for a game against Switzerland and a load of kids from my class went.
The following year, Euro ‘96 was hosted in England. “Football’s Coming Home” was sung everywhere, at games, in playgrounds and homes. Adapted to a chant, this gave us a way to express our support for the side without expressing nationalistic or jingoistic sentiments.
I only managed to get tickets for one game, but having been in the third row at the end Gazza scored his goal against Scotland is a memory I’ll treasure for the rest of my life. The rest of the matches I watched with school friends. Even though we supported different clubs, supporting England gave us a way of watching football where we could all share in the highs and lows of the same team. I still talk to those friends about England, 25 years on.
When I first got involved in the left in the early ’00s there was a pressure not to support the England team, to adopt the ‘Anyone But England (ABE)’ position which comes so easily to our Irish, Scottish and Welsh friends and comrades. But I was lucky enough to meet some anarchists through anti-fascism who supported England in football, partly out of not wanting to totally concede that cultural space to the right, but also because we had all grown up supporting the team and because watching international football together is an enjoyable experience [especially when we’re winning].
Around that time, British National Party (BNP) youth leader Mark Collett appeared in a documentary with Russell Brand, appropriately called “Naziboy”, which was filmed during the 2002 World Cup. In one scene, Brand accompanies Collett to a pub to watch the England vs Argentina group game. Collett is filmed knocking back pints of Carling, going on racist and homophobic diatribes before the game, then watching the match closely, celebrating Beckham’s penalty and then closely clutching his skinhead friend when England won.
Back then the British far right were still closely associated with supporting England. But since then, things have been changing. The BNP rose, fell and is now irrelevant. The EDL went through the same processes, introducing an estimated 35,000 people to far-right street politics and plenty of anti-fascists to the chant “You’re Not English Anymore”. But as all this was happening, the ability of the far right to organise at football was gradually fading away.
Campaigns to drive fascists out of football, like Leeds Fans United Against Racism and Fascism, which were set up in the 80s found some success in the 90s. Those grassroots campaigns coincided with the launch of the Premier League in 1992, the release of Fever Pitch that year, which contributed to opening up of the game to the middle-classes, and the launch of ‘Let’s Kick Racism Out of Football’ the following year, which was supported and funded by the game’s governing bodies. Racism was becoming unacceptable at football.
None of those developments have ended racism at football. It might be less common in stadiums, although anybody who goes to games regularly will be able to tell you of occasions they’ve heard racist abuse, but social media has made it happen 24/7. Racist fans don’t even need to go to matches to abuse players, they can just open an app and tweet their abuse directly onto the phones of the players they’re trying to harass. But this technological shift has happened after decades of struggle against racism in football.
These past struggles have empowered players to stand up for themselves, but one of the main reasons has simply been a refusal to accept racist treatment. There was a racist attack on Raheem Sterling outside his training ground in December 2017, the following year he started to speak out, criticising the media for the role they play in stoking racism. This appears to have been the start of the England team publicly opposing racism. By the time of the October 2019 away game in Bulgaria, the team were openly saying they might walk off the pitch if they suffered racist abuse. During the game, they very nearly did and the travelling fans chanted “You racist bastards, you know what you are” at the Bulgarian fans.
George Floyd was murdered in Minneapolis in May 2020, which sparked the latest wave of the global Black Lives Matter (BLM) anti-racism movement, many of the black players in the England side expressed their support for the movement. Leeds United’s Kalvin Phillips wrote an opinion piece for the club’s website encouraging fans to support BLM, other players used their social media accounts and media profiles to throw their backing behind BLM. But a lot of this happened while football was suspended because of the pandemic.
When football returned, with games being held in empty stadiums, nearly every level of English football saw players take the knee in solidarity with the BLM movement. This continued through the pandemic and when England’s players met ahead of their September 2020 game against Iceland, they decided they would take the knee, as they had been doing in their domestic games, and continue expressing this solidarity in empty grounds.
At the start of December fans were allowed back into some stadiums. This gave racist fans at a handful of clubs the opportunity to boo players taking the knee. At a time when culture wars are being pushed by the ruling class and dividing working class communities, this should come as little surprise. It also gave some of the ruling class politicians who are keenly trying to push culture war narratives an opportunity to portray a minority of racist football fans as being broadly representative of working class concerns about anti-racism.
When England played two friendlies ahead of the Euros in Middlesbrough, this was the first time they had played in front of a crowd since the start of the pandemic and the first opportunity for any England fans to register their opposition to players taking the knee. Inevitably a minority of fans booed when the players took the knee and this was keenly reported on by the media, looking for a controversial story ahead of the Euros. Ahead of Euro ‘96 it was the England players and the dentist’s chair, today it’s players being ‘woke’.
The right-wing of the Tories and Farage hubristically decided to attack the England team for taking the knee, accusing them of endorsing a Marxist organisation. These were rugby types who thought England would get knocked out early in the tournament and when this happened they could claim it was because the players alienated the fans by taking the knee. A political gamble made by people who aren’t football people and underestimated the team.
Tory MP Lee Anderson hasn’t watched any of the England games this tournament because the players are taking the knee. Prime Minister Boris Johnson and Home Secretary Priti Patel both publicly defended the minority of racist fans who were booing the players anti-racist gesture, putting themselves at odds with the team and the majority of the country.
Former BNP youth leader Mark Collett – who was filmed supporting England in World Cup 2002 – and leads a new fascist party called Patriotic Alternative, now actively wants England to lose. Collett has said on a number of livestreams recently that he no longer supports the England team because half of them aren’t white and he instead wanted “Russia or Hungary or the Czech Republic” to win the Euros which he claimed would be “absolutely fantastic”.
A lot of British racists don’t feel they can support the current England team. Which is great, these people need to be alienated from football grounds.
It’s going to be funny watching Marcus Rashford and the rest of the “woke babies” saunter into Downing Street for the inevitable post-tournament reception, however the final goes, their performances in this tournament have done enough that all the politicians who criticised the team for their passion for social justice ahead of the tournament will now be desperate to try and bask in the collective glory the players have earnt for themselves.
When the England and German players took the knee ahead of their memorable round-of-16 clash last week, England captain Harry Kane was wearing a rainbow flag armband in solidarity with the LGBT community ahead of Pride Month. This was because the German captain Manuel Neuer had been wearing such an armband all tournament and been investigated by UEFA. After the game Liverpool captain Jordan Henderson tweeted his support and has since worn rainbow laces. These might just be gestures but coming from such prominent players they speak volumes and show how much society is changing.
There’s one thing which has become clear to every England fan who has ever opposed racism, opposed homophobia and fought for a better world. This England side belongs to us.
By Jim – London FLAF [Leeds & England fan]
For many on the left, supporting the England football side hasn’t been easy. Particularly in the years when following England away was associated with football violence and the far-right. I haven’t always found it easy either, having been born in a different country. The year I attended my first England game was 1995, the same year neo-Nazi gang Combat 18 started a riot among England fans at Landsowne Road in Dublin. My school had been offered tickets for a game against Switzerland and a load of kids from my class went.
The following year, Euro ‘96 was hosted in England. “Football’s Coming Home” was sung everywhere, at games, in playgrounds and homes. Adapted to a chant, this gave us a way to express our support for the side without expressing nationalistic or jingoistic sentiments.
I only managed to get tickets for one game, but having been in the third row at the end Gazza scored his goal against Scotland is a memory I’ll treasure for the rest of my life. The rest of the matches I watched with school friends. Even though we supported different clubs, supporting England gave us a way of watching football where we could all share in the highs and lows of the same team. I still talk to those friends about England, 25 years on.
When I first got involved in the left in the early ’00s there was a pressure not to support the England team, to adopt the ‘Anyone But England (ABE)’ position which comes so easily to our Irish, Scottish and Welsh friends and comrades. But I was lucky enough to meet some anarchists through anti-fascism who supported England in football, partly out of not wanting to totally concede that cultural space to the right, but also because we had all grown up supporting the team and because watching international football together is an enjoyable experience [especially when we’re winning].
Around that time, British National Party (BNP) youth leader Mark Collett appeared in a documentary with Russell Brand, appropriately called “Naziboy”, which was filmed during the 2002 World Cup. In one scene, Brand accompanies Collett to a pub to watch the England vs Argentina group game. Collett is filmed knocking back pints of Carling, going on racist and homophobic diatribes before the game, then watching the match closely, celebrating Beckham’s penalty and then closely clutching his skinhead friend when England won.
Back then the British far right were still closely associated with supporting England. But since then, things have been changing. The BNP rose, fell and is now irrelevant. The EDL went through the same processes, introducing an estimated 35,000 people to far-right street politics and plenty of anti-fascists to the chant “You’re Not English Anymore”. But as all this was happening, the ability of the far right to organise at football was gradually fading away.
Campaigns to drive fascists out of football, like Leeds Fans United Against Racism and Fascism, which were set up in the 80s found some success in the 90s. Those grassroots campaigns coincided with the launch of the Premier League in 1992, the release of Fever Pitch that year, which contributed to opening up of the game to the middle-classes, and the launch of ‘Let’s Kick Racism Out of Football’ the following year, which was supported and funded by the game’s governing bodies. Racism was becoming unacceptable at football.
None of those developments have ended racism at football. It might be less common in stadiums, although anybody who goes to games regularly will be able to tell you of occasions they’ve heard racist abuse, but social media has made it happen 24/7. Racist fans don’t even need to go to matches to abuse players, they can just open an app and tweet their abuse directly onto the phones of the players they’re trying to harass. But this technological shift has happened after decades of struggle against racism in football.
These past struggles have empowered players to stand up for themselves, but one of the main reasons has simply been a refusal to accept racist treatment. There was a racist attack on Raheem Sterling outside his training ground in December 2017, the following year he started to speak out, criticising the media for the role they play in stoking racism. This appears to have been the start of the England team publicly opposing racism. By the time of the October 2019 away game in Bulgaria, the team were openly saying they might walk off the pitch if they suffered racist abuse. During the game, they very nearly did and the travelling fans chanted “You racist bastards, you know what you are” at the Bulgarian fans.
George Floyd was murdered in Minneapolis in May 2020, which sparked the latest wave of the global Black Lives Matter (BLM) anti-racism movement, many of the black players in the England side expressed their support for the movement. Leeds United’s Kalvin Phillips wrote an opinion piece for the club’s website encouraging fans to support BLM, other players used their social media accounts and media profiles to throw their backing behind BLM. But a lot of this happened while football was suspended because of the pandemic.
When football returned, with games being held in empty stadiums, nearly every level of English football saw players take the knee in solidarity with the BLM movement. This continued through the pandemic and when England’s players met ahead of their September 2020 game against Iceland, they decided they would take the knee, as they had been doing in their domestic games, and continue expressing this solidarity in empty grounds.
At the start of December fans were allowed back into some stadiums. This gave racist fans at a handful of clubs the opportunity to boo players taking the knee. At a time when culture wars are being pushed by the ruling class and dividing working class communities, this should come as little surprise. It also gave some of the ruling class politicians who are keenly trying to push culture war narratives an opportunity to portray a minority of racist football fans as being broadly representative of working class concerns about anti-racism.
When England played two friendlies ahead of the Euros in Middlesbrough, this was the first time they had played in front of a crowd since the start of the pandemic and the first opportunity for any England fans to register their opposition to players taking the knee. Inevitably a minority of fans booed when the players took the knee and this was keenly reported on by the media, looking for a controversial story ahead of the Euros. Ahead of Euro ‘96 it was the England players and the dentist’s chair, today it’s players being ‘woke’.
The right-wing of the Tories and Farage hubristically decided to attack the England team for taking the knee, accusing them of endorsing a Marxist organisation. These were rugby types who thought England would get knocked out early in the tournament and when this happened they could claim it was because the players alienated the fans by taking the knee. A political gamble made by people who aren’t football people and underestimated the team.
Tory MP Lee Anderson hasn’t watched any of the England games this tournament because the players are taking the knee. Prime Minister Boris Johnson and Home Secretary Priti Patel both publicly defended the minority of racist fans who were booing the players anti-racist gesture, putting themselves at odds with the team and the majority of the country.
Former BNP youth leader Mark Collett – who was filmed supporting England in World Cup 2002 – and leads a new fascist party called Patriotic Alternative, now actively wants England to lose. Collett has said on a number of livestreams recently that he no longer supports the England team because half of them aren’t white and he instead wanted “Russia or Hungary or the Czech Republic” to win the Euros which he claimed would be “absolutely fantastic”.
A lot of British racists don’t feel they can support the current England team. Which is great, these people need to be alienated from football grounds.
It’s going to be funny watching Marcus Rashford and the rest of the “woke babies” saunter into Downing Street for the inevitable post-tournament reception, however the final goes, their performances in this tournament have done enough that all the politicians who criticised the team for their passion for social justice ahead of the tournament will now be desperate to try and bask in the collective glory the players have earnt for themselves.
When the England and German players took the knee ahead of their memorable round-of-16 clash last week, England captain Harry Kane was wearing a rainbow flag armband in solidarity with the LGBT community ahead of Pride Month. This was because the German captain Manuel Neuer had been wearing such an armband all tournament and been investigated by UEFA. After the game Liverpool captain Jordan Henderson tweeted his support and has since worn rainbow laces. These might just be gestures but coming from such prominent players they speak volumes and show how much society is changing.
There’s one thing which has become clear to every England fan who has ever opposed racism, opposed homophobia and fought for a better world. This England side belongs to us.
editor
hiraethified
ENGLAND BELONGS TO US
By Jim – London FLAF [Leeds & England fan]
For many on the left, supporting the England football side hasn’t been easy. Particularly in the years when following England away was associated with football violence and the far-right. I haven’t always found it easy either, having been born in a different country. The year I attended my first England game was 1995, the same year neo-Nazi gang Combat 18 started a riot among England fans at Landsowne Road in Dublin. My school had been offered tickets for a game against Switzerland and a load of kids from my class went.
The following year, Euro ‘96 was hosted in England. “Football’s Coming Home” was sung everywhere, at games, in playgrounds and homes. Adapted to a chant, this gave us a way to express our support for the side without expressing nationalistic or jingoistic sentiments.
I only managed to get tickets for one game, but having been in the third row at the end Gazza scored his goal against Scotland is a memory I’ll treasure for the rest of my life. The rest of the matches I watched with school friends. Even though we supported different clubs, supporting England gave us a way of watching football where we could all share in the highs and lows of the same team. I still talk to those friends about England, 25 years on.
When I first got involved in the left in the early ’00s there was a pressure not to support the England team, to adopt the ‘Anyone But England (ABE)’ position which comes so easily to our Irish, Scottish and Welsh friends and comrades. But I was lucky enough to meet some anarchists through anti-fascism who supported England in football, partly out of not wanting to totally concede that cultural space to the right, but also because we had all grown up supporting the team and because watching international football together is an enjoyable experience [especially when we’re winning].
Around that time, British National Party (BNP) youth leader Mark Collett appeared in a documentary with Russell Brand, appropriately called “Naziboy”, which was filmed during the 2002 World Cup. In one scene, Brand accompanies Collett to a pub to watch the England vs Argentina group game. Collett is filmed knocking back pints of Carling, going on racist and homophobic diatribes before the game, then watching the match closely, celebrating Beckham’s penalty and then closely clutching his skinhead friend when England won.
Back then the British far right were still closely associated with supporting England. But since then, things have been changing. The BNP rose, fell and is now irrelevant. The EDL went through the same processes, introducing an estimated 35,000 people to far-right street politics and plenty of anti-fascists to the chant “You’re Not English Anymore”. But as all this was happening, the ability of the far right to organise at football was gradually fading away.
Campaigns to drive fascists out of football, like Leeds Fans United Against Racism and Fascism, which were set up in the 80s found some success in the 90s. Those grassroots campaigns coincided with the launch of the Premier League in 1992, the release of Fever Pitch that year, which contributed to opening up of the game to the middle-classes, and the launch of ‘Let’s Kick Racism Out of Football’ the following year, which was supported and funded by the game’s governing bodies. Racism was becoming unacceptable at football.
None of those developments have ended racism at football. It might be less common in stadiums, although anybody who goes to games regularly will be able to tell you of occasions they’ve heard racist abuse, but social media has made it happen 24/7. Racist fans don’t even need to go to matches to abuse players, they can just open an app and tweet their abuse directly onto the phones of the players they’re trying to harass. But this technological shift has happened after decades of struggle against racism in football.
These past struggles have empowered players to stand up for themselves, but one of the main reasons has simply been a refusal to accept racist treatment. There was a racist attack on Raheem Sterling outside his training ground in December 2017, the following year he started to speak out, criticising the media for the role they play in stoking racism. This appears to have been the start of the England team publicly opposing racism. By the time of the October 2019 away game in Bulgaria, the team were openly saying they might walk off the pitch if they suffered racist abuse. During the game, they very nearly did and the travelling fans chanted “You racist bastards, you know what you are” at the Bulgarian fans.
George Floyd was murdered in Minneapolis in May 2020, which sparked the latest wave of the global Black Lives Matter (BLM) anti-racism movement, many of the black players in the England side expressed their support for the movement. Leeds United’s Kalvin Phillips wrote an opinion piece for the club’s website encouraging fans to support BLM, other players used their social media accounts and media profiles to throw their backing behind BLM. But a lot of this happened while football was suspended because of the pandemic.
When football returned, with games being held in empty stadiums, nearly every level of English football saw players take the knee in solidarity with the BLM movement. This continued through the pandemic and when England’s players met ahead of their September 2020 game against Iceland, they decided they would take the knee, as they had been doing in their domestic games, and continue expressing this solidarity in empty grounds.
At the start of December fans were allowed back into some stadiums. This gave racist fans at a handful of clubs the opportunity to boo players taking the knee. At a time when culture wars are being pushed by the ruling class and dividing working class communities, this should come as little surprise. It also gave some of the ruling class politicians who are keenly trying to push culture war narratives an opportunity to portray a minority of racist football fans as being broadly representative of working class concerns about anti-racism.
When England played two friendlies ahead of the Euros in Middlesbrough, this was the first time they had played in front of a crowd since the start of the pandemic and the first opportunity for any England fans to register their opposition to players taking the knee. Inevitably a minority of fans booed when the players took the knee and this was keenly reported on by the media, looking for a controversial story ahead of the Euros. Ahead of Euro ‘96 it was the England players and the dentist’s chair, today it’s players being ‘woke’.
The right-wing of the Tories and Farage hubristically decided to attack the England team for taking the knee, accusing them of endorsing a Marxist organisation. These were rugby types who thought England would get knocked out early in the tournament and when this happened they could claim it was because the players alienated the fans by taking the knee. A political gamble made by people who aren’t football people and underestimated the team.
Tory MP Lee Anderson hasn’t watched any of the England games this tournament because the players are taking the knee. Prime Minister Boris Johnson and Home Secretary Priti Patel both publicly defended the minority of racist fans who were booing the players anti-racist gesture, putting themselves at odds with the team and the majority of the country.
Former BNP youth leader Mark Collett – who was filmed supporting England in World Cup 2002 – and leads a new fascist party called Patriotic Alternative, now actively wants England to lose. Collett has said on a number of livestreams recently that he no longer supports the England team because half of them aren’t white and he instead wanted “Russia or Hungary or the Czech Republic” to win the Euros which he claimed would be “absolutely fantastic”.
A lot of British racists don’t feel they can support the current England team. Which is great, these people need to be alienated from football grounds.
It’s going to be funny watching Marcus Rashford and the rest of the “woke babies” saunter into Downing Street for the inevitable post-tournament reception, however the final goes, their performances in this tournament have done enough that all the politicians who criticised the team for their passion for social justice ahead of the tournament will now be desperate to try and bask in the collective glory the players have earnt for themselves.
When the England and German players took the knee ahead of their memorable round-of-16 clash last week, England captain Harry Kane was wearing a rainbow flag armband in solidarity with the LGBT community ahead of Pride Month. This was because the German captain Manuel Neuer had been wearing such an armband all tournament and been investigated by UEFA. After the game Liverpool captain Jordan Henderson tweeted his support and has since worn rainbow laces. These might just be gestures but coming from such prominent players they speak volumes and show how much society is changing.
There’s one thing which has become clear to every England fan who has ever opposed racism, opposed homophobia and fought for a better world. This England side belongs to us.
The players and manager are certainly trying but there's a bit of a reality-shifting, rosy tint in that article
Revealed: shocking scale of Twitter abuse targeting England at Euro 2020
Exclusive: over 2,000 abusive posts directed towards footballers during games, including scores of racist messages
Euro 2020: fans ‘boo the knee’ again but England will continue anti-racism stance
Gareth Southgate says the Three Lions are ‘more determined than ever’ to take the knee
www.theweek.co.uk
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
The players and manager are certainly trying but there's a bit of a reality-shifting, rosy tint in that article
Revealed: shocking scale of Twitter abuse targeting England at Euro 2020
Exclusive: over 2,000 abusive posts directed towards footballers during games, including scores of racist messageswww.theguardian.com
Euro 2020: fans ‘boo the knee’ again but England will continue anti-racism stance
Gareth Southgate says the Three Lions are ‘more determined than ever’ to take the knee
Just to put that in perspective - that Guardian article talks about 44 explicitly racist tweets, and 58 criticising players for taking the knee/anti racist actions.
Just under 31,000,000 people in the UK watched the final last night.
Its notable that those booing the knee have been drowned out by everyone else as well as the tournament has progressed.
I can see how that article might seem just a little rose tinted, and of course even one incident of racist abuse is one too many. But I do agree that attitudes among England fans as a whole have shifted a lot in the last decade or so.
It's worth remembering as well that people sending tweets are not necessarily watching games in public or attending games. People might remember the disgusting Chelsea fans a few years ago convicted of racially abusing a black man on the Paris metro. It turned out some of them had already been banned from attending games in the UK.
editor
hiraethified
I don't think you appreciate how widespread the racist abuse was.
Outrage After Bukayo Saka’s Instagram Is Flooded With Racist Abuse
<p>Fans have rallied behind Bukayo Saka after his Instagram account was flooded with racist abuse in the wake of England’s Euros defeat. England’s historic tournament came to a heartbreaking close last night. While Luke Shaw’s early goal showed promise for the final, Italy eventually equalised...
www.unilad.co.uk
Dogsauce
I’ve got Skol but I’m not a Scholar
Don’t forget that there are also paid trolls out there stirring the culture war pot in order to divide/weaken societies, so the racism may in some cases be a performance rather than a genuine belief (though I guess from the receiving end it makes no difference).
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
I think the people , like FLAF , on the ground doing the actual work at clubs and actually confronting groups like the FLA and others are in a slightly better position to judge what’s rosy tinted or not tbh . I don’t think they are under any illusions as to the scale of the problem .The players and manager are certainly trying but there's a bit of a reality-shifting, rosy tint in that article
Revealed: shocking scale of Twitter abuse targeting England at Euro 2020
Exclusive: over 2,000 abusive posts directed towards footballers during games, including scores of racist messages
Euro 2020: fans ‘boo the knee’ again but England will continue anti-racism stance
Gareth Southgate says the Three Lions are ‘more determined than ever’ to take the knee
editor
hiraethified
Oh right. So anything they post up has to be taken as total facts and can not be challenged, because only they really know what's going on.
Right you are., then. There's clearly no point contributing any other opinions or viewpoints to this thread.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
The complicated reasoning some offer to explain the upsurge in footy violence and racist shit amuses me. It's quite simple. It's cocaine. The same twats yelling racist shit at matches and generally being the Eng-ger-lund arsehole embarrassments that they are will be the same twats buying heavily cut cocaine and sniffing it on match day to enable them to consume more Stella than they can normally tolerate. The bright side of this is of course that many will die from heart related illnesses earlier than expected.
My local MP Natalie Elphicke said the following about Marcus Rashford yesterday: "They lost -would it be ungenerous to suggest Rashford should have spent more time perfecting his game and less time playing politics."
Just the sort of utterance that encourages the racist abuse received by non white players. I think she has apologised for the comment now, because she didn't really have a choice not to. But I just thought I'd share that with you guys.
She's a vile bastard for her comments about refugees aswell, and for defending her husband.
Here's her e mail address: natalie.elphicke.mp@parliament.uk
And her constituency phone number is: 01304 379669
Just the sort of utterance that encourages the racist abuse received by non white players. I think she has apologised for the comment now, because she didn't really have a choice not to. But I just thought I'd share that with you guys.
She's a vile bastard for her comments about refugees aswell, and for defending her husband.
Here's her e mail address: natalie.elphicke.mp@parliament.uk
And her constituency phone number is: 01304 379669
Last edited:
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
So your point is they're racists shits anyway but they would be quiet racist shits without the addition of alcohol and cocaine
hitmouse
music obfuscation technology
Tbf, I don't think editor's point about widespread abuse on social media has to contradict the main argument being made in the article, it sort of seems to me like you can fit both of them into a single explanation - as the culture's shifted so that racist abuse at matches and in-person gatherings becomes rarer and more likely to be challenged, racists are more likely to express themselves online instead. Also, thinking about it, I suppose there is something for the point that not all racist internet posts will necessarily be coming from UK/English posters, I'm sure that whenever the 4chan dicks and their like see that there's a racist bandwagon happening they'll be jumping on it.
hitmouse
music obfuscation technology
Also, looking at the data in that Guardian article: Revealed: shocking scale of Twitter abuse targeting England at Euro 2020
I mean, I want to be very careful how I phrase this, cos I'm not trying to say "oh, only 102 racist tweets, there's no problem at all" cos clearly that's 102 too many, and similarly I'm not trying to say "ah, the vast majority were abusive without being specifically racist, and so that's fine", but still like:
Given the sheer amount of chatter around those games, those numbers, especially the specifically racist ones, are probably lower than I would have expected. Again, I'm not trying to downplay how upsetting it must be for the people on the receiving end.
I mean, I want to be very careful how I phrase this, cos I'm not trying to say "oh, only 102 racist tweets, there's no problem at all" cos clearly that's 102 too many, and similarly I'm not trying to say "ah, the vast majority were abusive without being specifically racist, and so that's fine", but still like:
Given the sheer amount of chatter around those games, those numbers, especially the specifically racist ones, are probably lower than I would have expected. Again, I'm not trying to downplay how upsetting it must be for the people on the receiving end.
TopCat
Putin fanboy
Hahaha
the parameters are pretty narrow though - 5 hours around the three group stage matches, none of which were lost?
hitmouse
music obfuscation technology
Yeah, that's also true (also just twitter so no instagram, fb, reddit, etc). Although the article's from June so suppose that's all they had to go on?
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
I don't think you appreciate how widespread the racist abuse was.
Outrage After Bukayo Saka’s Instagram Is Flooded With Racist Abuse
<p>Fans have rallied behind Bukayo Saka after his Instagram account was flooded with racist abuse in the wake of England’s Euros defeat. England’s historic tournament came to a heartbreaking close last night. While Luke Shaw’s early goal showed promise for the final, Italy eventually equalised...
I know what happened on Sunday night. I was pointing out what was said in the link that you supplied.
Again, remember that people commenting on instagram are not necessarily representative of the almost 31 million watching the match.
I can't comment on the link you've shared here as it says its unavailable at the moment. But I do think - not that its possible to know - that there will have been more people online expressing support with Saka, Sancho and Rashford and disgust at the racism being expressed than there are people sending racist abuse.
Maybe that is rose tinted in your opinion but I suspect it's true.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Just to recall the pre- rose tinted 1996 Euro games
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
as i've said elsewhere the actual riot in the centre of london was over a rather wider area - i can cast my mind back to it because i saw it. and after england lost to west germany in 1990 there was a similar (tho perhaps lesser) wave of arsery - i was in germany at the time but heard of german cars being attacked etc.
RainbowTown
Well-Known Member
"In Brighton, seven fans were so distraught they threw themselves off the pier, like pissed lemmings, and had to be rescued by the coastguard."
A case then, in this instance, of England truly not fighting them on the beaches.
Winston would've been so disappointed.
A case then, in this instance, of England truly not fighting them on the beaches.
Winston would've been so disappointed.
hitmouse
music obfuscation technology
That unilad article actually has a link to an example of that:
Don't think many of the racist comments would've been getting five figures of likes either.
Yes, that is precisely my point. The cocaine gives them an inflated sense of importance and the inability to shut the fuck up, plus added aggression via alcohol.
Look we all know what these "lads" are about. They watched too many cheap football hoolie DVD's picked up from the local Esso garage on their way home from their dead end shitty jobs.
Films like "Football Factory" or "ID" or anything with that perennial bell-end Danny Dyer in it. They don't really even want to be "top boy" in their "firm" because that's too much work.
They want to feel the sense of "belonging" with the "lads" because they are incapable of opening up emotionally, so their ability to have successful relationships with women or any sorry children they manage to produce is scuppered. They are just damaged little men with fragile egos, and they invest whatever is swishing at the bottom of their emotionless husks into the idea of following the "lads" into "battle" over a sports game. It's the same all over the world. Little gangs of 7 year old kids in the playground of a primary school behave in the same way. You know this.
Of course you can pity these sad little boys all day, and refuse to invite them to nice things and refuse to introduce them to nice people.
You can reduce their influence on your life, and leave them to the inevitable lonely misery for which they are destined.
Comment about them on obscure websites. Avoid their England flag festooned white vans, and their beautician or "boss babe" women with their sluglike lips and orange flesh.
Watch as they actively drive a thriving trade in cocaine, which results in warfare between rival gangs eager to maintain the income from "DAZZA DA LEGEND" and his mates on match day.
Then watch as they post racist shit when some inner city kid is shot over an industry that they are directly fuelling.
And you'll be doing the same 40 years from now. We all know what they are. Cut them out of your life, and they will wither and vanish of their own accord.
It is important to document their behaviour, but as we see from Wembley security video, the police and security numbers for any football event involving the national team was less than half what is needs to be going forward. The coke binges or the spells in jail for domestic abuse or whatever they get up to will grind them into the ground.
Of course if Twitter and FB and all the others are keen to identify people for prosecution then we might be able to silence them more effectively. Not sure how keen I am on cancel culture but exposing people for what they are is only fair when they overstep the mark. It's 2021, it's very easy for people to go viral for some idiot comment posted somewhere. If you're still racially abusing people in 2021, expect to be doxxed, that then we can effectively silence them. Because that's all I want! Just to shut them the fuck up!
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Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
So let them be racist shits as long as they're quiet racist shits. Just perpetuating the problem rather than actually doing something to solve it. Sweeping all the shit under the carpet.
krtek a houby
Merry Xmas!
The Combat 18 masterminding the riot is debatable, though.
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