Feedback on the delayed progress of Loughborough Junction

[corporate whore]

Agree with Mr BC - I take Thameslink daily and when it's good it's great - when it's bad it's soul destroying.

The trouble comes because Thameslink don't run any of the stations south of Blackfriars - even LJ AFAIK, which no other company services (privatisation, don'tchajustluvit?). Thus, if delays occur, staff are under no obligation to dish out information. The electronic boards are extremely unreliable.

I don't 'get' Thameslink 2000. Why try and push through the new stuff over Borough Market - with all the hassle and anger and cost that entails - when there's absolutely no need for Thameslink to run a fast service from London Bridge to East Croydon? That route's well provided for out of London Bridge/Charing Cross.

They should just put more trains to East Croydon and beyond via LJ/Herne Hill/Tulse Hill. This would ease some of the London Bridge bottleneck, provide better, more regular links through LJ and HH - why not 8 trains an hour instead of 4? There's no other traffic on those lines...

 

[hendo]

They should just put more trains to East Croydon and beyond via LJ/Herne Hill/Tulse Hill. This would ease some of the London Bridge bottleneck, provide better, more regular links through LJ and HH - why not 8 trains an hour instead of 4? There's no other traffic on those lines...

Apart from the Eurostar, which gets priority, causing more lateness to long suffering Thameslinkies.

 

[corporate whore]

Ah true nuff, L'Eurostar.... What's the deal with that, BTW? When the St. Pancras Eurostar terminal's finished, will they still run out of Waterloo?

The HH cross-over's the only sticking point preventing my mad plan, er, grand transport blueprint, taking shape.

I maintain it could be done. Two southbound TL trains an hour sit at HH for 10 minutes. A swift timetable rejig could be all that's needed, and if TL stopped running so many trains via London Bridge that wouldn't be soooo tricky.

 

[Domski]

I haven't posted on here for quite some time as I got pretty fed up with the 'holier than thou' attitude that many of the regular Brixton Forum posters appear to have. I also couldn't stand the way that the consistent rantings on here by the 'dominant few' implied that people like myself should be made to feel guilty for the fact that they have recently moved to Brixton and 'worse' bought a flat here. The stereotypes that have been bandied around are about as small minded as the worst article the Sun has ever written

The reason I feel compelled to post is that I'm frankly fucking gobsmacked that the whole Green Man/Warrior saga is still continuing, SOME TWO YEARS after they got bought for development, largely as a result of some of the absurd and bureaucratic actions of the local planning committees and this bizarre campaign to the retain the ground floor of the Green Man as retail space.

The Green Man and the Warrior/Junction were shut down for good reasons and not because of some sinister plot to undermine the local community and put cash into the hands of developers. I completely agreed with the sentiment that both buildings shouldn't just become 'luxury flats' (another grotesque and pathetic stereotype by the way), and one of the first things to come out of the original discussion was that YES, the Warrior would be better off (for everyone) to be restored as a pub, GREAT, so WHY (oh why?) the best part of a year and half later are both places still largely unworked on, with the net result being that LJ has simply become an even worse ghost town than it ever was before.

The answer to that has been because of the continuing 'concern' that renovating the Green Man completely would lose the area the chance to have ANOTHER pub, or this supposed holy grail of 'further retail space'... Tell me, what is the point? LJ needs more people to give it more atmosphere, and it needs people right at it's epicentre, i.e. people who are living there, rather than staggering pissed out of another boozer, whilst incidentally, they'll be one over the road (Ahem, The Warrior), and as for shops, well LJ isn't brilliant, but what other shops do you want, there's already a convenience store in the form of Sunstar... shit, maybe you want another Chicken place, oh, there's already Alberts place next door which at my last recollection isn't exactly doing a roaring trade...

My point being, how the hell do you expect ANYTHING to be done if it takes two years, TWO YEARS, to get past the usual gang of Nimby's (sorry dogooders) - Tell you what, why don't you let everyone who invests in the area have to stomach two years of interest payments without any payback at all - I'm surprised that the developer hasn't accepted several hundred thousand pounds in non sequential bills from the local crack lords so he can just have the places off his hands and the very serious business of turning the Green Man and Warrior into utter shitholes again can begin in earnest.

I would have thought turning the Warrior into a decent pub again was good enough for the area and a pretty good concession in the first place - but no, not enough for the 'Brixton Action Committee'

I just think its a fucking shame. LJ needs development and investment, and if things go on as they are no-one's going to touch the place with a barge pole. But, hang on, that's what you want isn't it?

 

[hatboy]

I'm sure you'll be pleased to hear that despite confused planning permissions and delays (which is down mainly to Lambeth not residents) that the Green Man/Warrior development is due to start in the next month or so.

Thru the Brixton Area Forum and a couple of what you'd maybe call "nimbys" the ground floor of the Green Man now looks like being a medical centre or doctor's surgery - something much needed locally.

I think you've got some of your facts and the direction of your aggression a bit mixed up.

 

[Domski]

I'm sure you'll be pleased to hear that despite confused planning permissions and delays (which is down mainly to Lambeth not residents) that the Green Man/Warrior development is due to start in the next month or so.

Thru the Brixton Area Forum and a couple of what you'd maybe call "nimbys" the ground floor of the Green Man now looks like being a medical centre or doctor's surgery - something much needed locally.

I think you've got some of your facts and the direction of your aggression a bit mixed up.

Please explain to me why it has taken two years to get to this stage Hatboy?

Is it (disorganised as they are) actually Lambeth's fault...? Or is it down to the continued blocking and re-start of the application process?

BTW - I think it's great it's going to be a doctors surgery - but is it worth the going through this process every time? Because if so, there is going to be considerably reduced investment in area's like LJ that badly need it, and fast.

I appreciate your point on the aggression side of things - I hadn't actually noticed that this thread was started as far back as October last year, and it was your comments on 'can you give us continued assurances' that raised my bile late last night.

 

[THE WARRIOR]

Please explain to me why it has taken two years to get to this stage Hatboy?

Is it (disorganised as they are) actually Lambeth's fault...? Or is it down to the continued blocking and re-start of the application process?

BTW - I think it's great it's going to be a doctors surgery - but is it worth the going through this process every time? Because if so, there is going to be considerably reduced investment in area's like LJ that badly need it, and fast.

I appreciate your point on the aggression side of things - I hadn't actually noticed that this thread was started as far back as October last year, and it was your comments on 'can you give us continued assurances' that raised my bile late last night.

The delay was primarily because the developers resubmitted their planning application last August to get further residential accommodation in the form of a mansard floor - presumably so that the development would stack up financially. They had permission for some time before that for a smaller development but chose to wait and put in the further application. Only 6 months has passed since - probably only 2 months more than if the community had supported their new scheme. Instead now as Hatboy says, there is a plan to incorporate a much needed public facility as well. Populating an area is not just about flats anywhere (bums in slums - would be created if the ground floor were converted to residential)

Incidentally the only station south of the Thames managed by Thameslink is LJ. A visit to any Thameslink station in N London - (where investment and maintenance occur) would suggest that they have forgotten this.

To avoid the cross over issue - couldn't trains run as a more frequent shuttle from Herne Hill (Sutton bound platform) to Blackfriars - as the line has ample capacity.

8 trains would be better than 4 ph but an improvement on 1 per hour in the evening would be better.

Still with no subsidy (Thameslink has to pay the government £millions for the priviledge of running the service) it is no wonder there is no investment/increase in services.

 

[Domski]

The delay was primarily because the developers resubmitted their planning application last August to get further residential accommodation in the form of a mansard floor - presumably so that the development would stack up financially. They had permission for some time before that for a smaller development but chose to wait and put in the further application. Only 6 months has passed since - probably only 2 months more than if the community had supported their new scheme. Instead now as Hatboy says, there is a plan to incorporate a much needed public facility as well. Populating an area is not just about flats anywhere (bums in slums - would be created if the ground floor were converted to residential)

Incidentally the only station south of the Thames managed by Thameslink is LJ. A visit to any Thameslink station in N London - (where investment and maintenance occur) would suggest that they have forgotten this.

To avoid the cross over issue - couldn't trains run as a more frequent shuttle from Herne Hill (Sutton bound platform) to Blackfriars - as the line has ample capacity.

8 trains would be better than 4 ph but an improvement on 1 per hour in the evening would be better.

Still with no subsidy (Thameslink has to pay the government £millions for the priviledge of running the service) it is no wonder there is no investment/increase in services.

I'm afraid I haven't been sticking tooth and nail with the exact detail of the case although I find it very very hard to believe that it is the developer who is at fault for the amount of time it has taken given that financially, these sorts of things have to be truned round quite quickly to guarantee that the bank doesn't call in your loans. On the roof issue, I'm not sure I see the problem of adding one as long as it's not made of steel girders and painted bright orange Was there an objection to it, and if so why?

Basically, I've lived down in LJ for a bit and have mates down there who are fed up with the place, especially with the boarded up state of the pubs - I'm really not sure you can convince me that the delays have

a. Been worthwhile
b. Not been caused by an absurd 'holier than thou' attitude amongst a 'minority' of the local community

As for trains, LJ needs more of them as the LJ/Camberwell area struggles without better transport links. But we all know that.

 

[aurora green]

As a long-term local resident, It's your attitude Domski thats a bit grating. You seem to be suggesting that in the interests of speedy development, we should let developers do what they want with no thought for the long term future of our area. I am delighted about the doctors surgery, its far far better than just turning it all into flats, of benefit to the whole community. Definately worthwhile.
I do not agree with your view that just because the pub had a bad name, our area should be deprived of one, forever.
Taking an interest in long term issues cannot be dismissed as 'holier than thou'.

 

[Domski]

My attitude is a bit grating... come off it, I appreciate that you're a long term local resident, but my re-collection is that one of the earliest things to come out of this long and wasteful process was that the Warrior was going to be reinstated as a proper pub (rather than flats, a 'style bar', or a seedy underground rave venue) - to me this more than represented a good attitude to the community, I know that achieving a doctors surgery is a good outcome, but how many other potential investors in the area have decided that they simply can't be arsed because of the stalling attitude of both the council and certain (I'd say unrepresentative pushy voices) within the local community. I remember speaking to the lady in the cafe over the road when they were first shut down and her being thrilled about it, but also saying that she hoped they now got on and did something rather than leave it boarded up.

One thing I'm certainly not saying is that developers should be allowed to do exactly what they want, but there's a balance here that has NOT (IMO) been got right, and IT IS the 'holier than thou' attitude, continuing re-discussion and the spinelessness of the council that has made a laughing stock of the whole process. The Green Man was bad news (I'm pretty sure that's the majority opinion), and I'm afraid NOTHING ever gets done if every last person has to be catered for - or if they do, it takes years!

 

[Brixton Hatter]

...how many other potential investors in the area have decided that they simply can't be arsed because of the stalling attitude of both the council and certain (I'd say unrepresentative pushy voices) within the local community

Well, hopefully a strong, vocal local community WILL put off the developers who are more interested in making money than putting something into the community. And I don't care if the voices are "unrepresentative" - all people are allowed to have their say. If you've got a strong opinion on something you really believe in - say it. And say it loud.

...I remember speaking to the lady in the cafe over the road when they were first shut down and her being thrilled about it, but also saying that she hoped they now got on and did something rather than leave it boarded up.

You can't really have it both ways. If you want somewhere closed down you can't expect it to be opened again overnight. And who is the "they" that should sort things out anyway? You have to find a buyer, draw up the plans etc. These things take time...

 

[THE WARRIOR]

My attitude is a bit grating... come off it, I appreciate that you're a long term local resident, but my re-collection is that one of the earliest things to come out of this long and wasteful process was that the Warrior was going to be reinstated as a proper pub (rather than flats, a 'style bar', or a seedy underground rave venue) - to me this more than represented a good attitude to the community, I know that achieving a doctors surgery is a good outcome, but how many other potential investors in the area have decided that they simply can't be arsed because of the stalling attitude of both the council and certain (I'd say unrepresentative pushy voices) within the local community. I remember speaking to the lady in the cafe over the road when they were first shut down and her being thrilled about it, but also saying that she hoped they now got on and did something rather than leave it boarded up.

One thing I'm certainly not saying is that developers should be allowed to do exactly what they want, but there's a balance here that has NOT (IMO) been got right, and IT IS the 'holier than thou' attitude, continuing re-discussion and the spinelessness of the council that has made a laughing stock of the whole process. The Green Man was bad news (I'm pretty sure that's the majority opinion), and I'm afraid NOTHING ever gets done if every last person has to be catered for - or if they do, it takes years!

What none of you seem to have grasped is that the developer having received planning permission for the Warrior decided to hold off development until they had a revised permission for the Green Man as a matter of economy. This was submitted last August - the earliest it could have been considered was late Nov as it is - just 2 - 3 months of (including the non active xmas period) further consultation with the community has got the possibility of a Doctors surgery - as a resident I think that is time well spent.

Get your facts right before launching an attack on the community - it may look one way but is not as negative as you try to portray - there is a will to improve the area - support it.

 

[Domski]

I'm not making an attack on 'the community' FFS, that's just bollocks. I AM saying that I'm fed up with the people who make it their life's work to create unneccesary delays and endless (usually pointless) discussion. LJ has been a dive for too long because of it.

Mr Warrior - AFAIK, both the Warrior and Green Man were bought TWO years ago and nothing has happened. In my street in Brixton, two utterly fucked houses were bought at auction 6 months ago and they're both finished now, but I suppose people aren't happy about that because they'll be let out to people who aren't marginals . I appreciate that the Warrior and GM are bigger jobs but everything I've read about them has suggested a culture of delay among a small sectional interest who wanted the Green Man (pointlessly) saved as a pub. An utter (and irresponsible) waste of time. I may have a few of my facts wrong because I don't spend my days trawling through all the detail, sorry, I've better things to do, BUT, you can't tell me with a straight face that a good fair few of these re-consultations have been an utter waste of time.

 

[hatboy]

Domski - the delays are a shame but you can't blame people such as myself who fought to keep something useful for the community (and look like being rewarded for that tenacity by a medical centre - hardly a wasted effort). Blame the confusion around the whole planning process for the delay. It was mainly down to Lambeth Council red-tape getting in the way of common sense and to the developers own choice to submit their first revised application. (And less so to BAF and people like me wanting ground floor facilities at the GM although that will have added an extra month or two).

Also your point about the Green Man being all round "bad news" shows how little you know because the Green Man was a very decent pub (mainly serving the older West Indian community) until a few years ago. Majority opinion eh? - you can't know that, you weren't even aware of the Green Man's recent history apart from the last two years so who's "holier than thou" now then?

My "holier than thou" intention therefore was to try and influence things to re-instate the pub as previous to the rough/dealing recent era of LJ. Or if that wasn't possible or more locals would be happier without the pub, to get something, anything useful at ground floor level. This looks succeeding as a medical centre/surgery.

I might remind you with your "bad news" comment about the Green Man that one of the biggest fuck-ups in this whole thing initially was the short-termist reaction to the problems at the Green Man, ie "close it down now and forever, it's a drugs pub".

 

[hatboy]

By the way, the "marginals" comment is clearly a dig at me but irrelevant to this subject. Although I'd prefer you'd say criticisms of me to my face please.

No-one with any sense wants to deliberately obstruct or waste time Domski. That is just what happens when local authorities are involved. Believe me it's been a pain in the arse from this side too. But finally everything should be going ahead.

Tonight (yes this very day!) the council planning officers are due to reject the Green Man app with no ground-floor use and approve the one with provision for a medical centre/surgery. Let's hope they get this simple decision right.

 

[sun man]

It's refreshing to know that someone else shares my frustration at the amount of time it's taking to process the planning apps. on these buildings Domski.

Mr. Warrior and Hatboy, you have missed the point that had the original application for the GM been approved in October, residential use on the Ground floor would only have been an option rather than a certainty. An option for example if there hadn't been a forthcoming trade use during the build process.

It may seem like it was worth the wait to delay the process in exchange for certainty of A3 use on the ground floor but it merely increases pressure on the decision to abandon the entire project on financial grounds.

You could not have been expected to know this and I respect your determination to ensure LJ develops properly. Please also consider that the application was only made for residential use on the ground floor as it was what the council had just approved unanamously at committee level on the previous submission (i.e it should have gone through).

There should be news in a month or so as to whether the build process will go ahead.

In the meantime I apologise to everyone for the continued appearance of the two properties looking so abandoned and boarded on the ground floors. All I can say is that every effort is being made to bring them back to life and restore the incredibly beautiful facades hidden behind all the years of dirt and neglect.

 

[hatboy]

What do you mean "whether it goes ahead". I heard the only reason that you weren't granted permission yesterday was because you, sun-man (the developer) didn't attend the meeting and insisted the decision was postponed again until you could. You did that.

Let me emphasize once again that the main delay is down to the council planners previous confusion and the developers own revision of plans. Me and other local residents slight interference makes little difference.

If it all doesn't go ahead this is down to the developer's choice. And that's all. I'm sorry but it's time to get on with it now and that is entirely up to you, sun-man.

Think positive. It's a great development. The pub (The Warrior) will be popular, the flats will sell or rent and the local community will have a medical centre/surgery we didn't have before.

You'll be in the vanguard of regeneration there sun-man, and the prospect of the East London Line (there's alot of local pressure to push for this, it's not really decided that it won't come) will make this an even more worthwhile project.

 

[Domski]

What's happened now? As I've said I haven't really got time to keep thoroughly up to date on things in minute detail, but does this mean it's been delayed AGAIN... Jesus H Christ I'm not pointing a finger of blame at anyone because I've got no idea why but I can't believe this is being dragged out further...

Hatboy - I apologise for my obvious dig at you, this is probably about as close to telling something like that to your face as possible - as I don't know you I'm afraid. The reason for the dig is that I was just a bit fed up with the discrimination (and gross generalisations) that you (and some others) make against certain sections of the Brixton populous... all this crap about young, hip and trendy people, tallulahs, claphamites, olivers, yuppies and such similar bollocks is pretty offensive to a fairly substantial proportion of people who call Brixton their home - and frankly I got a bit fucked off with being made to feel guilty about living here by the 'repetative sanctanimity' (sic) of some of the posters on here. I'm truly sorry that the market works in the way that it does but I'm afraid that's life, if you really want to change the way things work go and get yourself elected onto the local council and cause some proper internal rucus rather than posturing around on these boards about 'what should happen' and 'how unfair it all is'...

Anyway - I would just like to see LJ get the investment it requires without death from 1000 cuts at committee stage - that's all... and as for the Green Man, once a pub turns into a frankly dangerous drug dealing outpost (tell me with a straight face it wasn't), then it either needs to be pulled down or turned into something that will prevent it returning to that state - with all the options considered, developing the Warrior into a proper pub and the GM into flats looked to me to be the best option, AND ONE that could have been carried out with minimum fuss and with at least majority support from the local community... as it happens, like I said, a few storm in a teacup speacialists have delayed the whole process and I wouldn't be surprised if they were left to become dillapidated shitholes whilst the centre of LJ rotted alongside it....

 

[lang rabbie]

the prospect of the East London Line (there's a lot of local pressure to push for this, it's not really decided that it won't come) will make this an even more worthwhile project.

I wouldn't hold your breath on this, despite what various people who want to be (re)elected as Mayor or to the GLA may promise between now and June. The ELL project is so strapped for cash that extra stations will only happen if they are funded by development.

Despite the fine words on "design for a sustainable city" in the Mayor's new London Plan - I reckon that will require high density, and probably high rise, new development at LJ to pay the £multi-million costs that have been suggested for a new station, not just a few pubs converted to flats.

This may not be a bad thing per se (that probably depends on your view of the realism of Ken's target of 28,910 extra homes in Lambeth by 2016 - page 56 of the plan) but it implies transformation of the area on a scale that some people may find daunting.

 

[hatboy]

Domski - you haven't really listened, just repeated your accusations.

"if you really want to change the way things work go and get yourself elected onto the local council and cause some proper internal rucus rather than posturing around on these boards about 'what should happen' and 'how unfair it all is'..."

I stood for the Greens a couple of years ago. We came second.

Yuppies etc - My personal approach to people is to speak as I find really, but no I don't especially like market-forces gentrification, extreme divisions in wealth, racists, snobs and conservative young professionals, sorry.

Here's a long essay about gentrification:

http://www.socresonline.org.uk/7/3/butler.html

It argues that many posher middle-class people in London do not mix.

Here's some previous posts from "Reubeness" on this forum:

The white yuppie community in Brixton/Stockwell/Clapham:

It's not a hypothetical question - it's not rocket science - it's fact! What is also fact is that many of the 'new' residents of Brixton are nowhere to be seen at the weekend, have enough money to use fee-paying schools, private health clubs, exclusive pre-school education. Many higher income earners have two or more cars (further clogging up the already limited car parking spaces). No stake in the community, no interest in much that is not affecting them personally.

Lambeth Driving Me Crazy:

Can anyone help? I am beginning to feel powerless in my community! I've lived in Brixton on and off all my life, I love the place and the people but I am increasingly 'powerless' here. How do ordinary people change the status quo?
The parking problem: I buy a permit, but have to park miles away from my house. Traffic wardens put tickets on my car even with the permit but I have to appeal (and then the appeals are refused).
Greedy property developers want to spoil my view and the light to my house with yet another block of flats. My schools choices are non-existent; I can't afford to buy the house I've lived in for 22 years because the discount now offered in London is only £18,000. The council is quick to send bailiff's to collect debt on parking and council tax - these bailiff's charge 600% interest on a £250 fine and treat us like rubbish. Bus lane cameras in Brixton are cited a few metres away from traffic lights - they effectively trap motorists (£100 fine).
Local community facilities are left by the council to dilapidate and then pulled down - new facilities emerge but the community can no longer afford to use them (Ferndale Community Sport Centre in Nursery Road is a case in point now under new 'Fusion' management the 5-a-side pitches cost £60 per hour!). The cycle begins again - look at Brixton Recreation Centre, seriously look around at the state of repair! Children within the community are seriously lacking in facilities - there are no Lambeth football pitches with proper changing rooms or stadia. Schools with the facilities needed were sold off to property developers a long time ago, there are no lambeth funded youth clubs - nor are there Lambeth people in positions of power within many of the existing sports related facilities.

Any and everything I need as a resident in Lambeth I have to fight for - nothing comes without endless correspondence and usually - screaming and shouting or getting legal advice and threatening - or time-consuming voluntary action. Endless stress and potential ill health to just live in a community. How can this be right and what can I do to change any of it!

Breakdown imminent
(Yeah, move!) Not possible!

End quote.

 

[Mr BC]

Yuppies etc - My personal approach to people is to speak as I find really, but no I don't especially like market-forces gentrification, extreme divisions in wealth, racists, snobs and conservative young professionals, sorry.

Problem is hatboy, you talk a lot of sense, even about gentrification, and then you go and spoil it with invective. Can you not see how appearing to equate 'yuppies'/ 'conservative young professionals' with snobs and racists might be tinsy bit offensive to, well, conservative young professionals? And it's hardly a scientific observation is it?

 

[hatboy]

It will offend some and ring true with others. I don't mind that.

 

[Mr BC]

It will offend some and ring true with others. I don't mind that.

Yep. I just think 'racist' is not a label to be thrown around so liberally.

 

[hatboy]

Well, lets be honest, nearly everyone has some racism in them. It's what you do about it that counts. But the reason why I mention it is that some of my black/mixed friends say they really notice that some of the "more conservative young professionals" (my words, others have different descriptions!) round here look at them suspiciously and treat them a bit second class. (Nothing new there really, but possibly newer in Brixton's recent history).

Yes, this might be uncomfortable to hear for some, but there are people who think that since Brixton has become more gentrified it has become more divided... and I'm one of them.

 

[Mr BC]

Hatboy said:

"Well, lets be honest, nearly everyone has some racism in them. It's what you do about it that counts. But the reason why I mention it is that some of my black/mixed friends say they really notice that some of the "more conservative young professionals" (my words, others have different descriptions!) round here look at them suspiciously and treat them a bit second class. (Nothing new there really, but possibly newer in Brixton's recent history).

Yes, this might be uncomfortable to hear for some, but there are people who think that since Brixton has become more gentrified it has become more divided.. and I'm one of them".

I suggest that you knock on a few doors on some Lambeth estates and listen to the views of some white working-class tenants.

 

[Domski]

I didn't know you'd stood for the Green's hatboy - so I now appreciate that you've tried...

I still can't stand your labels though - being labelled as anything creates division in the first place but unfortunately it's a system that appears to propagate through everything and encourages generalisation, and shitty stereotyping - christ, I've labelled you as a whingeing, posturing, tinkering storm in a teacup specialist but at least I've tried to make it ring true as opposed to just saying 'conservative young professionals' - Well, if I guess being young and being a professional deserves to get me strung up by the Lambeth community then so be it.

For your information - I suffer from a great deal of the same problems as 'Lambeth Driving me Crazy' - I had awful Sinusitis for the first three weeks of this year but couldn't get an appointment at the Pavilion medical centre, I found it nigh on impossible to get through the bureacracy of buying a permit for my car, and have been busted by those wretched traffic lane camera's on more than one occassion - I struggle to pay the mortgage on my flat, and lament the way that people hassle you and piss on the street in the town centre. I sympathise with those who can't get affordable housing because of these 'bloody market forces' but if anything is going to sort out Brixton it's investment in the area from both the local community, and from outside. If that means that the area is going to gentrify then so be it - the way to maintain the local community is for the council to stop flogging off social housing - in places like the dreaded Clapham and Battersea (Shock HORROR ) there seems to be a far more peaceful coexistence of social housing and gentrification than there is in Brixton despite the inequalities - this so called holy grail of 'maintaining the community' AS IT STANDS is a crock of shit I reckon...

As for 'conservative young professionals' like myself not taking a stake in the community - I find this deeply offensive. Brixton is my home and I spend the vast majority of my time here, I've drunk (and got drunk) in the Albert, Eat at least once a week in the Noodle bar where the guy knows my order and had tea in the Phoenix most days when I didn't have to disappear off to work... I know plenty of people in the area and am not afraid to go anywhere and do anything - WHAT MORE MUST I DO not to be made to feel like an evil pawn of capitalism by people like you... Sheesh! I guess what I'm trying to say is that you should try and accept the new face of the community without dismissing it out of hand in the way that you and many others have done, be it on these boards or in snide little conversations with the 'in crowd' down the pub....

Anyway - I'm sorry this has degenerated into some sort of slanging match... I did come on here to vent some frustration after not posting for near on a year after seeing all this stuff that was BLATANTLY offensive, and was also shocked and appalled by the lack of progress at LJ which in my opinion would be a great area if only it were given half a chance.

 

[hendo]

Domski - a top post.

 

[hatboy]

Mr BC said: "I suggest that you knock on a few doors on some Lambeth estates and listen to the views of some white working-class tenants".

Why? Is that how to talk to "the public" Mr Councillor? I just talk to any old person. And I also know what I feel, I'm not looking in from outside. Lots of people are gonna agree with me about divisions in wealth in Brixton which impact both on race and class anyway.

Domski and Hendo - don't worry about it, you're not accountable to me. You know if you're nice or not. I didn't say "conservative young professionals like you", but you seem to have decided the description is you yourself Domski.



Never been in an "in crowd" btw.

Anyway, yeah I totally agree about LJ. I wish they'd get on with it now.

 

[hatboy]

"....Clapham and Battersea (Shock HORROR ) there seems to be a far more peaceful co-existence of social housing and gentrification than there is in Brixton despite the inequalities."

My impression is that Battersea is so divided the posh people don't even see, let alone talk to the people on the big estates.

 

[hatboy]

"if anything is going to sort out Brixton it's investment in the area from both the local community, and from outside. If that means that the area is going to gentrify then so be it".

So "gentrification" is the negative thing that comes with the positive of outside investment is it? Then we agree on that. What I'm arguing against is not change or investment, both are good. What I don't like are the "improvements" that only cater for the monied: such as expensive, bland bars and, as previously mentioned, the revamp of Ferndale Sports Centre, which sounds good until you realise it's inaccessible to many because all the prices have gone up loads. While simultaneously things that really matter, like affordable housing and genuinely accessible youth facilites are diminishing.

The clean-up of some of the pubs is about forcing conformity too IMO.