Fat White Family & various offshoot bands (Moonlandingz, Insecure Men, Warmduscher, Pregoblin etc)

[smiler747]

My name is Stuart Green, and I am the manager of Fat White Family. I have been managing bands a long time now.

One of the things that has continually disappointed this old punk is how apolitical bands are these days. They rarely even talk about politics; the closest I got with one very well regarded band I worked for was a moan about how the economic climate meant that it was likely he would never be able to buy his own home. So it was a delight to meet the Fat Whites, a bunch of politically engaged people who are angry about the world and want it to change.

I am not going to say that talullah is lying about what went on in The Grosvenor that night. I have known her too long and have too much respect for her to do that. No doubt Saul said something wrong, but having spent a lot of time with him it inconceivable to me that he is racist. I would ask that you judge Saul and the band not by some drunken hearsay but by their actions, for instance their participation in the Thatcher death party and their being a driving force behind the Brixton Yuppies Out protests. Then have a listen to their songs and you will get an idea of where their politics really lie: Heaven On Earth, Bomb Disneyland, and Garden Of The Numb should do the job.

 

[TruXta]

So is it hearsay or not? You contradict yourself. Furthermore no-one has called the band racist, rather a nasty episode on the part of one band-member has been told. Plus some more stories of vague unpleasantness, which in itself is no crime.

 

[editor]

Furthermore no-one has called the band racist....

Err, yes they have. Right here.

 

[TruXta]

Err, yes they have. Right here.

Come on, that's him taking the piss.

 

[gabi]

You've never met them or heard them. You've never heard anyone accuse them of being racist. You have no interest or involvement whatsoever, in this small underground rock band on the other side of the planet from you. I am just going to assume you are drunk and belligerent right now.

Probably. My home is brixton though.

I can't excuse racism as easily as some though it would seem. Their manager's denial up there is pretty weird though. Tacitly acknowledging what was said was said and then excusing it on the basis they went to a thatcher is dead party. If that's the kind of shit you're into, then so be it.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

Furthermore no-one has called the band racist.

Even you said it
#368

 

[story]

Probably. My home is brixton though.

I can't excuse racism as easily as some though it would seem. Their manager's denial up there is pretty weird though. Tacitly acknowledging what was said was said and then excusing it on the basis they went to a thatcher is dead party. If that's the kind of shit you're into, then so be it.

That's not how I read that post.

It looks like smiler747 is acknowledging that Saul may have said something, but he can't comment on what was said, or how it was reported by tallulahj, because he wasn't there to witness it himself, and since he knows tallulahj IRL he's not going to declare her a liar.

So it's not a denial. But nor is it a tacit acknowledgement of Saul's reported "racism".

He is, however, clearly denying that Saul is in any way racist.

A Thatcher Death party and Yuppies Out is hardly proper Leftie politics. It doesn't look to me as if Smiler747 is using that to justify or excuse anything, only to indicate that they tend towards the Left rather than the Right.

Having spent some time with them myself, I'd be really staggered to find any of them is racist. They are young, rude, reactive, pushy, passionate, but they have never exhibited anything while in my company that would lead me to think any of them hold racist views.

You seem pretty certain that he is racist, having never met any of them or seen them play. You're judging Saul's thoughts and ideas and attitudes based on one report. You're not accepting that there may be some question about it, as suggested by the several reports from people who actually know them.

 

[rutabowa]

Even you said it
#368

Yeh and he said it in really snide innuendo way on an unlinked thread... really not cool.

 

[rutabowa]

Come on, that's him taking the piss.

Really not a funny thing to take the piss about, if it was taking the piss which I doubt. These are real people being slandered.

 

[TruXta]

Yeh and he said it in really snide innuendo way on an unlinked thread... really not cool.

Snide? Nothing snide about it. Anyway, I'm not giving these guys anymore of my time.

 

[rutabowa]

Snide? Nothing snide about it. Anyway, I'm not giving these guys anymore of my time.

It was extremely snide. It's there for anyone to read in the link above. You said you wouldn't give them any more time repeatedly about 4 months ago, I dunno why you can't resist.

 

[redsquirrel]

I would say that that is a pretty robust and unambiguous reply from them.

Yes, because people who have been guilty of using racial language always admit it and state that they were being racist when confronted by it.

And the point isn't whether they "are racists". I don't think anybody is claiming/believes that they are long term ideological racists but rather than one of the band members made a racist remark.

 

[TruXta]

It was extremely snide. It's there for anyone to read in the link above. You said you wouldn't give them any more time repeatedly about 4 months ago, I dunno why you can't resist.

Because some of you are too easily riled up.

 

[rutabowa]

Because some of you are too easily riled up.

ah right so you have been implying people that you don't know are racist as a wind up. how post modern.

 

[Badgers]

I have only met Saul once and he was a rude cunt. Not actually racist but shouted at a shy Greek lad 'DOES NOBODY HERE SPEAK ENGLISH' while banging his fist on the bar. When I called him on it he got aggressive.

Racist? Maybe. Cunt? Definitely.

 

[butchersapron]

ah right so you have been implying people that you don't know are racist as a wind up. how post modern.

A bit like using racist language to wind people who don't know that you're not in fact, a massive racist, just a massive twat - wouldn't you say?

 

[gabi]

Really not a funny thing to take the piss about, if it was taking the piss which I doubt. These are real people being slandered.

Slandered? Their own manager admits this guy Saul said something dodgy but excuses as the guy was drunk.

The complainant (who the manager says he trusts) claims he said that 'niggers cant read'. not quite sure how good the band has to be to get away with that kind of shit.

 

[rutabowa]

A bit like using racist language to wind people who don't know that you're not in fact, a massive racist, just a massive twat - wouldn't you say?

yes, that would be a similar thing.

 

[rutabowa]

Slandered? Their own manager admits this guy Saul said something dodgy but excuses as the guy was drunk.

The complainant (who the manager says he trusts) claims he said that 'niggers cant read'. not quite sure how good the band has to be to get away with that kind of shit.

there is no comment on this thread (or anywhere as far as i know) from anyone who was actually there, no first hand witnesses whatsoever, none have come forward either. who knows the context? you just said the words yourself, in the context of describing what someone else is alleged to have said.

what there is are lots of first hand reports of people coming forward saying there is no way that none of them are racist, and a robust total refutation from the band themselves, and offer to go ask them about it if you want to talk further.

 

[Badgers]

no first hand witnesses whatsoever

I have only met Saul once and he was a rude cunt. Not actually racist but shouted at a shy Greek lad 'DOES NOBODY HERE SPEAK ENGLISH' while banging his fist on the bar. When I called him on it he got aggressive.

Racist? Maybe. Cunt? Definitely.

^

 

[butchersapron]

there is no comment on this thread (or anywhere as far as i know) from anyone who was actually there, no first hand witnesses whatsoever, none have come forward either. who knows the context? you just said the words yourself, in the context of describing what someone else is alleged to have said.

what there is are lots of first hand reports of people coming forward saying there is no way that none of them are racist, and a robust total refutation from the band themselves, and offer to go ask them about it if you want to talk further.

There is no refutation of the claims from the band or their manager of the incident whatsoever. What there are are general non-specific claims from the former and their chums like you that the band members are not racist. These are two different things.

 

[rutabowa]

^

?? witnesses to the night gabi was talking about, obviously.

 

[killer b]

tbf there isn't a total refutation by the band itself, or their manager. just a lot of noise about them not being racists.

 

[rutabowa]

There is no refutation of the claims from the band or their manager of the incident whatsoever. What there are are general non-specific claims from the former and their chums like you not to be racist. These are two different things.

it is an anonymous, second hand, unclear accusation on a bulletin board that they don't frequent.

 

[butchersapron]

it is an anonymous, second hand, unclear accusation on a bulletin board that they don't frequent.

I don't care. I don't care if they attempt to refute it or not. My post was directed at your claim that they had refuted it. And this isn't about your potential misuse of the term 'refute' either, it's that your claim contained the idea they had addressed the accusations about the incident on here - they haven't.

 

[Badgers]

tbf there isn't a total refutation by the band itself, or their manager. just a lot of noise about them not being racists.

Only noise seems to be from members of another band who have played on the same night as FWF

 

[gabi]

it is an anonymous, second hand, unclear accusation on a bulletin board that they don't frequent.

Is it anonymous? Sounds like tallulah works at the pub where this dude allegedly racially abused somebody. And was subsequently barred.

 

[rutabowa]

Sounds like tallulah works at the pub where this dude allegedly racially abused somebody. And was subsequently barred.

This is 100% lie, and tallulah themself has said so on this very thread. not one single person has claimed this, whatever else they might have claimed. please take that back.

 

[redsquirrel]

what there is are lots of first hand reports of people coming forward saying there is no way that none of them are racist, and a robust total refutation from the band themselves, and offer to go ask them about it if you want to talk further.

Are you really this stupid? Do you really think that racism is such a simple binary thing? That either people are "racists!" (and admit it whenever asked ) or that they are "not racists!".

You don't think that people might be not be ideological racists but still behave in a way that many might consider racist? That people might not be aware how their behaviour might be construed as racist by others?

 

[gabi]

This is 100% lie, and tallulah themself has said so on this very thread. not one single person has claimed this, whatever else they might have claimed. please take that back.

I must have misread the thread. Page 3 and 4 sounds like she works there. Apologies if that's not the case. She certainly does say he was spouting racist shit and was barred though.