Extinction Rebellion

[chilango]

That really your best this morning? More coffee required.

Fwiw I agree it’s not a good strategy, it’s far from their only iffy strategy, but I understand them well enough to know that this will be their logic.

Just sitting down for first coffee.
...but there's more than a whiff of "wake up sheeple" in this kinda stunt. Intended or not.

 

[brogdale]

One thing; I don't think they'll try this tactic again next time.

 

[Plumdaff]

Haven't seen anyone actually in support of the action at Canning Town this morning....

 

[brogdale]

and it's given vermin cunts like this fella the opportunity to dog whistle his support of the kicking (whilst weasel wording it so that he could claim that really meant the well-meaning folk who stopped the kicking).

 

[Pickman's model]

Btw, I’ve just asked someone fairly influential in XR to check, just in case...

Edit: all I have so far is that huge numbers of XR members didn’t want this particular action to happen (not verified directly by my contact, but is part of the discussion I have butted into)

it's happened now and i wouldn't be surprised it'll be what this 'october rebellion' is most remembered for

 

[Pickman's model]

and it's given vermin cunts like this fella the opportunity to dog whistle his support of the kicking (whilst weasel wording it so that he could claim that really meant the well-meaning folk who stopped the kicking).

View attachment 187332

to be fair it's fairly fucking explicit so i don't think the dog whistle thing really applies

'this response in london has my full support' can't really mean anything else bar 'well done chaps for giving the green oik a bashing'

 

[brogdale]

to be fair it's fairly fucking explicit so i don't think the dog whistle thing really applies

worse, then.
I really think XR have blown it with this tactic.

 

[8ball]

Just sitting down for first coffee.
...but there's more than a whiff of "wake up sheeple" in this kinda stunt. Intended or not.

Yeah, guess there’s s a whiff of it with any major awareness-raising stunt involving large numbers of people trying to shuffle somewhere they don’t want to be while trying to remain as oblivious as possible for personal sanity reasons.

 

[kabbes]

No matter how uniform the beliefs and attitudes of a crowd, there will always be some within it that get an idea to do something outside of that crowd’s norms. The action at Canning Town looks like it was done by a handful of individuals, not XR en masse.

 

[8ball]

it's happened now and i wouldn't be surprised it'll be what this 'october rebellion' is most remembered for

Speaking to a mate the other night* it seems like a lot of their decision-making processes have issues.

* - I’m not mentioning photons again

 

[Pickman's model]

worse, then.
I really think XR have blown it with this tactic.

very much so. it's so inept, anyone could have seen people would be angry.

rather than attacking the public transport network they should have stuck to blocking roads.

 

[LDC]

The lack of control of demos and actions and messages is going to be an issue with XR's popularity and growth.

How (can or should you?) stop random people and small groups doing actions that are counter-productive?

 

[brogdale]

No matter how uniform the beliefs and attitudes of a crowd, there will always be some within it that get an idea to do something outside of that crowd’s norms. The action at Canning Town looks like it was done by a handful of individuals, not XR en masse.

Yer reckon?
They won't claim responsibility? Blame it on rogue elements?
Even bigger loss of cred.

 

[YouSir]

Bit surprised commuter v protestor clashes haven't been a constant throughout this whole thing, commuters have the numbers if push really comes to shove.

In London at least people can generally navigate stuff in places like Waterloo or Trafalgar Square. Anyone who does those trips regularly knows to walk around/take different bus/tube/whatever if there are delays for any reason. Early morning DLR not so much, going to be the only viable route for lots of people. Hard to think of a worse place and time to target.

 

[8ball]

The lack of control of demos and actions and messages is going to be an issue with XR's popularity and growth.

How (can or should you?) stop random people and small groups doing actions that are counter-productive?

It certainly is, and has been an issue for a while. You can’t be an entirely decentralised broad church agreeing on only a couple of fundamental things AND be decentralised in a manner where individual actions can be discussed but not vetoed AND be consistent and coherent the whole time.

 

[chilango]

Extinction Rebellion co-founder Clare Farrell defended the Tube action, saying "the public, I don't think, realise quite how serious this situation is"

BBC news story

 

[Pickman's model]

The lack of control of demos and actions and messages is going to be an issue with XR's popularity and growth.

How (can or should you?) stop random people and small groups doing actions that are counter-productive?

what i would do is to put on the website a summary of why some actions are good and resonate with the public and some are bad and drain support. i would also encourage a debate within the movement about what constitutes a good action, both in terms of how it goes and how it's portrayed. in addition, i would encourage discussions about personal safety on actions, because it's one thing to be nicked by the cops and quite another to risk being kicked to death (which must be fairly easy for a crowd to do inadvertantly). that ought to stop some of the more stupid actions.

 

[Pickman's model]

BBC news story

that's really fucking stupid

 

[brogdale]

It certainly is, and has been an issue for a while. You can’t be an entirely decentralised broad church agreeing on only a couple of fundamental things AND be decentralised in a manner where individual actions can be discussed but not vetoed AND be consistent and coherent the whole time.

So you're saying that they're going to disown these protestors?

 

[Pickman's model]

BBC news story

Climate protesters dragged from Tube train

 

[Pickman's model]

So you're saying that they're going to disown these protestors?

good luck with disowning them

 

[chilango]

It's the logical result of putting moralism ahead of more material analysis.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

No matter how uniform the beliefs and attitudes of a crowd, there will always be some within it that get an idea to do something outside of that crowd’s norms. The action at Canning Town looks like it was done by a handful of individuals, not XR en masse.

It was stated on the radio this morning (6 o'clock news) that XR intended to shut down the tube. That did sound like a silly thing to do, but they justified it in that it would draw attention to the whole protest. However AFAIK XR actions are not sent down from above, it is just individuals taking action(s), so some will be more useful than others.

Choosing Canning Town doesn't seem too clever, a more obscure station (like St John's Wood) would have shut down a line and wouldn't have had hoards of people ready to tear them down and duff 'em up...

 

[Pickman's model]

It's the logical result of putting moralism ahead of more material analysis.

yeh

 

[brogdale]

It's the logical result of putting moralism ahead of more material analysis.

devoid of class consciousness

 

[Pickman's model]

It was stated on the radio this morning (6 o'clock news) that XR intended to shut down the tube. That did sound like a silly thing to do, but they justified it in that it would draw attention to the whole protest. However AFAIK XR actions are not sent down from above, it is just individuals taking action(s), so some will be more useful than others.

Choosing Canning Town doesn't seem too clever, a more obscure station (like St John's Wood) would have shut down a line and wouldn't have had hoards of people ready to tear them down and duff 'em up...

if it was necessary to do a tube action they should have done something to the waterloo and city line, which would have pissed off city workers but so many people are ambivalent about city workers anyway that that wouldn't have been such an own goal as this stunt is proving.

 

[Pickman's model]

devoid of class consciousness

devoid of political nous in every way!

if they'd taken a walk around canning town they'd have seen a great constituency with whom they haven't really engaged, the residents of the keir hardie estate. and this isn't the way to introduce yourself if you want to make a positive impression.

 

[brogdale]

devoid of political nous in every way!

if they'd taken a walk around canning town they'd have seen a great constituency with whom they haven't really engaged, the residents of the keir hardie estate. and this isn't the way to introduce yourself if you want to make a positive impression.

the most powerful clip I've seen was the (peaceful) assertive questioning of the hand-glue women asking her where she'd come from and how she'd got to Canning Town. Damning stuff.

 

[chilango]

It illustrates neatly the limits of XRs current strategy.

You've got everyone's attention.

Now what?

 

[Pickman's model]

the most powerful clip I've seen was the (peaceful) assertive questioning of the hand-glue women asking her where she'd come from and how she'd got to Canning Town. Damning stuff.

i can't watch all i'd like to (work ) but the people on the train and that man getting pulled down and getting a hiding: and the xr there having the gall to effectively say 'we're doing this for you', it would have me spitting blood (both for the delay and the substitutionism)