Euro 2012: Stadiums of hate (panorama)
- Thread starter tar1984
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FabricLiveBaby!
Live Baby Fabric!
As I said, if we're going to play the blame game, I feel it lies with the totally corrupt police force out here. You are never going to stomp out racism, you overhear a plethora of racist comments everywhere in the UK, what you can do is make it less visible.
The visibility boils down to two things:
a) The police out here are a joke. Cowardly and corrupt. The more "finable" something is out here, the more likely they are to arrest you (and get a pay off). Simply put, if they can't fine you for it and they don't perceive it as serious - nothing is going to be done about it.
b) Poland never had an empire, so don't really have the history and inevitable guilt that comes with it. This can make it very hard to tackle on an individual scale.
Having said that the stuff Sol Campbell was saying about coming back in a coffin is a sensationalist sound-bite - you could say the same thing about London at times. If the BBC were that worried about football fans getting into shit, it would have been far better to run with corrupt policing, and what precautions to take as a tourist who doesn't know the law. I suspect that it didn't have enough of a shock factor.
FabricLiveBaby!
Live Baby Fabric!
Racists very rarely change to non-racists. They just shut the fuck up if the ramifications are big enough. I've saw it a few times when I was temping at the prison in the UK. Some dick-head with racist tattoos (one including a lynching!!!) moaning that he couldn't take his shirt off cos he'd get beaten up.
He was still a racist dickhead at the end of the day. He just shut the fuck up.
There's plenty of shit that I could pick up with a video camera if I came to London for a month.
So how do you get racist "fans" to change when there is an easily bribe-able police force quite happy to let you off for £20?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Apart from that Empire of course.
love detective
there's no love too small
from the baltic to the black sea
FabricLiveBaby!
Live Baby Fabric!
I take it you're talking about the Polish-Lituanian commonwealth?
It's hardly on par with the British, German or French Colonial Empires, of "savages and the civilised".
purenarcotic
Conveniently Pocket Sized
Well from Kemp's programe on it, it's the poverty and mass unemployment in his view that seems to encourage the far right views far more than corrupt police.
Certainly all the far right hooligan fans he visited were living in pretty shite conditions. I expect education will play a role too.
For sure, if the police do fuck all about it it becomes twice as visible, but I don't think it's the police who are totally to blame here. I am sure it's a whole variety of reasons.
You just seem to be a bit bizarrely defensive tbh, SBL. My opinion of Poland has not suddenly changed because I watched a half an hour show with some shocking footage. You seem desperate to point out that you know people who aren't white and they don't have a problem. And? Your point is? I know Asian people who've never experienced overt problems here in Birmingham, that doesn't mean that there aren't shocking levels of racism in some parts of the UK.
Not all of us are going to draw Daily Mail style conclusions about this you know.
Certainly all the far right hooligan fans he visited were living in pretty shite conditions. I expect education will play a role too.
For sure, if the police do fuck all about it it becomes twice as visible, but I don't think it's the police who are totally to blame here. I am sure it's a whole variety of reasons.
You just seem to be a bit bizarrely defensive tbh, SBL. My opinion of Poland has not suddenly changed because I watched a half an hour show with some shocking footage. You seem desperate to point out that you know people who aren't white and they don't have a problem. And? Your point is? I know Asian people who've never experienced overt problems here in Birmingham, that doesn't mean that there aren't shocking levels of racism in some parts of the UK.
Not all of us are going to draw Daily Mail style conclusions about this you know.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
FabricLiveBaby!
Live Baby Fabric!
I'll go watch the Kemp thing. It sounds interesting and a bit more honest.
My main concern was the inevitable conclusion that people will draw about the everyday Pole, and the fact that it will really put people off coming here without strong grounds. Yeah I know Urban isn't exactly the best place to point it out cos you're mainly all decent type chaps, with your thinking caps on. Other forums have not been so kind. A plethora of "send the Poles back home" and other types of ironic nonsense.
FabricLiveBaby!
Live Baby Fabric!
I think it does if you're going to look at tackling racism in different countries or if you're going to be looking at attitudes to other races and how it affects racism policies. You cannot compare a monarchistic commonwealth between two countries located in Europe, to the modern baggage that come with a colonialist empire. If you're going to tackle something effectively, then you have to take into account the history of the nation.
The colonial one. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_colonial_empire
goldenecitrone
post tenebras lux
Dhimmi
Half Man Half HobNob
Understandable but if you're going to worry about what idiots think you're in for a lot of worrying.
pppPenguin
Well-Known Member
What websites are those? EDL, NF?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
BT i think
pppPenguin
Well-Known Member
There's a trend I've noticed on the websites I use, people defending Poland and Ukraine assume all Brits see all Poles and Ukranians as racist, which is obviously a wide presumption in itself.
pppPenguin
Well-Known Member
editor
hiraethified
I know loads of really, really sound Poles, and many of them have been active in fighting racism and fascism.
WTF? Is he fucking serious? You get a ban for standing up in a football ground these days let alone doing Nazi salutes!
Classic denial and deflection tactics from ukranian authorities. I thought that police chief was maybe a loose cannon but now the top official?
There might end up being no trouble. I'm sure they'll have security locked down for the euros in a way it wouldn't be for domestic football. But denying there is a problem seems a bit far fetched.
There might end up being no trouble. I'm sure they'll have security locked down for the euros in a way it wouldn't be for domestic football. But denying there is a problem seems a bit far fetched.
alsoknownas
some bloke
That gag went down well till they found out that the kid was a jew - cue 3-day riot by both sets of fans.
Probably.
friedaweed
Me and me girl named Jane
There's a thread about hooliganism don't you know 
starfish
No dialogue. Just plot.
A Polish colleague of mine, who watched the programme, claimed that the people with the White Power banners/flags etc, did it because the wear white tshirts. He said if they wore blue tshirts they would have Blue Power banners/flags etc. Not sure how truthful he was being but he is going back for the tournament & he's a Lech Poznan fan. He also said thatthe trouble in Poland was nothing like that shown in the programme, the Ukraine on the hand.
PlaidDragon
We don't need money to have a good time
I may be way off on this (having never been to Poland/Ukraine) and if I am call me a clueless cunt, but my take is this: once the Berlin wall fell, the ex-Soviet countries were exposed to a level of multiculturalism and immigration that had previously not been an issue at all. In this instance, I'd opine that these countries are about 20/30 years behind "us" in accepting and welcoming (as they should be) immigrants to their country. Can anyone really say that the disgusting racism in these countries is that different to what was seen on the terraces here in the 70's/80's?
I think that exposure to a multicultural tournament comprising players of many nationalities and ethnic origins can only be a good thing in raising awareness of the benefits of multiculturalism. Of course there are some straight out fascist cunts, but they can just fuck off into a hole. Hopefully the majority of football fans in Poland and Ukraine will stop ignoring these vile bigots because of numbers, and rise up and smash them off the terraces.
I think that exposure to a multicultural tournament comprising players of many nationalities and ethnic origins can only be a good thing in raising awareness of the benefits of multiculturalism. Of course there are some straight out fascist cunts, but they can just fuck off into a hole. Hopefully the majority of football fans in Poland and Ukraine will stop ignoring these vile bigots because of numbers, and rise up and smash them off the terraces.
wtf? 'blue power'?
did he also think the people in the terraces giving out hitler salutes and shouting seig heil were 'pointing at the opposition fans' as the chief of police believes?
southside
Banned
wtf? 'blue power'?
did he also think the people in the terraces giving out hitler salutes and shouting seig heil were 'pointing at the opposition fans' as the chief of police believes?
Oh dear!
Athos
Well-Known Member
gabi said:wtf? 'blue power'?
did he also think the people in the terraces giving out hitler salutes and shouting seig heil were 'pointing at the opposition fans' as the chief of police believes?
Maybe we misheard them. Perhaps they were all keen ornatholigists, simply pointing out the seagulls.
