Epistemology

[Jonti]

Ha. I never said learning is impossible.
How do you come to connect that with "having knowledge is impossible " is anyone's guess. (Maybe you could check the other thread.)

I never said you did. But the connection is obvious, if you give it a moment's thought. If knowledge is impossible, then so is learning.

 

[bluestreak]

?
Maybe he asked for a temp ban because he said in his thread he is far behind with his thesis.

salaam.

Cheers.

 

[Jonti]

Pfft. More like a failure to recognise the limitations of syntactical structures.

The world is more than language can say. There's all sorts of ways to get someone to experience this, including meditations and linguistic tricks, but that's all there is to it really.

 

[Jonti]

Itis not about word games. It is about what matters to get insight in the world *as is*.

salaam.

Couldn't agree more

 

[Jonti]

What the posts of other posters (whihc I only read fractional) have to do with me and/or mine is also anyone's guess.

salaam.

This sounds as if you're saying that you don't post in response to what other people have said. But that's not true, so I'm a bit confused as to what you're getting at. Perhaps you feel folk don't respond to *your* posts? But that's not true either. I for one have highlighted several times where we are saying much the same thing as each other, but from different perspectives, and in very different ways.

Not to worry. How are you enjoying Descartes?

 

[max_freakout]

It really comes down to whether you want to play empty word games of pseudo-profundity; or whether you want to learn about the world.

Amusing as word-games may be, I'm more interested in the real world.

imho, there is nothing at all 'pseudo' about the profundity at the heart of epistemology, to say that, is to entirely dismiss offhand the real value of philosophy

 

[max_freakout]

I never said you did. But the connection is obvious, if you give it a moment's thought. If knowledge is impossible, then so is learning.

only if you define learning as 'acquisition of facts'


learning is the development of belief structures

 

[Aldebaran]

I never said you did. But the connection is obvious, if you give it a moment's thought. If knowledge is impossible, then so is learning.

Jonti: Learning leads to knowledge.
Aldebaran: Learing induces suggestion of knowledge.

Look post 35 and 37 in the other thread (is going to die now that Dillinger banned himself)

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=7172264#post7172264


salaam

 

[max_freakout]

That's a claim, y'muppet.

i have repeatedly insisted that i am NOT making a claim


to understand what i mean this, go back through the thread, and for every single place where you understand a claim to have been made

replace 'max_freakout claims...' with 'a sceptic would argue....'


it is completely impossible, for a person to make the claim that knowledge is impossible

 

[max_freakout]

Jonti: Learning leads to knowledge.
Aldebaran: Learing induces suggestion of knowledge.

Absolutely, that is the perfect way to put it


You could also add:

learning properly understood, develops belief structures

 

[max_freakout]

I also don't understand why max has repeatedly resorted to using propositional logic

im using propositional logic, because the subject matter of modern epistemology is propositional knowledge, you hear that stated clearly in the first lecture of any undergraduate epistemology course


i know that p

p = any proposition

 

[Aldebaran]

This sounds as if you're saying that you don't post in response to what other people have said. But that's not true, so I'm a bit confused as to what you're getting at.

You posted as if I am responsible of how MF posts. I have nothing to see with his approach.

Perhaps you feel folk don't respond to *your* posts? But that's not true either. I for one have highlighted several times where we are saying much the same thing as each other, but from different perspectives, and in very different ways.

Well, sometimes but I don't think you follow my reasoning about what knowledge actual is (not what it means).
It is of course a matter of language and remember this one is not even remotely mine, so I am constantly translating myself. It is a bit difficult with subjects like this, but I though I was clear enough
(see? self-delusion at work)

Not to worry. How are you enjoying Descartes?

Good. Feels like you gave candy to a child with a sick stomach (not Descartes, the fact I'm reading Latin upsets Dyslex solmewhat more than usaul.)

salaam.

 

[Santino]

More claims. I'm going to call Claims Direct, they'll sort this out.

 

[Aldebaran]

You could also add:

learning properly understood, develops belief structures

That I said already, but I think it is in the other thread.

Information offers belief - or suggestion thereof - to be aquired. This can lead to the experience of suggested understanding. The cumulative result induces suggestion of knowledge.

salaam.

 

[max_freakout]

More claims. I'm going to call Claims Direct, they'll sort this out.

you are claiming that i am making claims, despite the fact i am repeatedly insisting that i'm not making claims

 

[Santino]

you are claiming that i am making claims, despite the fact i am repeatedly insisting that i'm not making claims

Is that a claim?

 

[max_freakout]

Is that a claim?

right, how could you possibly know if it was a claim or not?


the claim that i am not making a claim, is impossible, just as the knowledge that knowledge is impossible, is impossible


this is because the word 'claim' is really a veiled form of the word 'know'

you are merely restating the whole problem, with this insistence that there is a person, max freakout, who is 'making' a claim

this is not the case, because knowledge is impossible, you can't know anything, im not claiming to know anything, but it seems as if you are

 

[Jonti]

you are claiming that i am making claims, despite the fact i am repeatedly claiming that i'm not making claims

Fixed it for you.

 

[i-am-your-idea]

I never said you did. But the connection is obvious, if you give it a moment's thought. If knowledge is impossible, then so is learning.

learning is not impossible. you can learn beliefs.

or more accurately, you believe you can learn beliefs.

you can not be certain that the learning is taking place, or whether what you are learning is true

 

[Jonti]

What cannot you doubt?

 

[bodach]

What cannot you doubt?

everything apart from doudt.

 

[Kizmet]

Big Al says dogs can't look up....

 

[bodach]

What cannot you doubt?

everything apart from doubt.

 

[bluestreak]

Big Al says dogs can't look up....

He's not claiming it. He knows it as a fact.

 

[i-am-your-idea]

What cannot you doubt?

im interested to see where this is going

what do you think you cannot doubt?

 

[bodach]

what do you think you cannot doubt?

everything else.

 

[bodach]

Have I triple posted. So that's a triple thought.

 

[Pip]

I thought this was a thing doctors do to women in labour where they cut the bit between their minge and their bum, and was all like "what the hell is this doing in the philosophy forum?"
As you were.

 

[bluestreak]

One thing I can say I know then, is that I'm glad I never need to give birth.

 

[bodach]

I thought.

Me to.