Entirely unashamed anti car propaganda, and the more the better.

[Hollis]

Undoubtedly many would, but I reckon not as matas you might think. For every car nut who worships his mk. 5 Golf or wealthy bloke who enjoys having a high performance car in his garage there 3x more at least who see their car as a practical tool. I don’t own one right now but have in the past, and if availability of car club cars is reliable I would have absolutely no issue with transitioning to a share car only world.

There's also an element of designing the infrastructure so they become less attractive. E.g. I've worked in London 30 years, and every other place I've worked everyone has commuted using public transport because there's no car park. The place I'm at has a free car park. I get it's useful and needed for a few people with families, but equally I'd say about 75% of the people who choose to drive don't need to and wouldn't if the free parking wasn't available.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

You could maybe use of of those big shared cars that carries 50 people or so at a time.

 

[SpookyFrank]

There's also an element of designing the infrastructure so they come less attractive. E.g. I've worked in London 30 years, and every other place I've worked everyone has commuted using public transport because there's no car park. The place I'm at has a free car park. I get it's useful and needed for a few people with families, but equally I'd say about 75% of the people who choose to drive don't need to and wouldn't if the free parking wasn't available.

A lot of stuff is physically built in a way that means it doesn't work without private vehicles. A lot of work happens in business parks and industrial estates that aren't well served by general radial/hub setup of public transport networks based on urban centres.

 

[Tankus]

Never owned or used a car in the 30 years that I lived in the east end, coming back to Wales, bought a car to search for a house.

One main factor in choosing a house, was that it was within walking distance of a train station (and a beach) to the 'diff, as a backup to the car. But the cars the main form of transport in semi rural Wales.

I may have to live without one eventually, when I'm doddery, but I ain't there yet!

 

[farmerbarleymow]

My mother drives faster than that. This is a biker, late for work.

That's basically weltweit the fucking wrong 'un Bad as Spymaster and Bahnhof Strasse in their fucking twat cars

 

[teuchter]

Seattle will permanently close 20 miles of residential streets to most vehicle traffic

The streets had been closed temporarily to through traffic to provide more space for people to walk and bike at a safe distance apart during the coronavirus pandemic.

www.seattletimes.com

Even in America they are starting to get it. So our home-grown transport dinosaurs should start to worry.

Nearly 20 miles of Seattle streets will permanently close to most vehicle traffic by the end of May, Mayor Jenny Durkan announced Thursday.

The streets had been closed temporarily to through traffic to provide more space for people to walk and bike at a safe distance apart during the coronavirus pandemic.

Now the closures will continue even after Gov. Jay Inslee’s stay-at-home order is lifted.

 

[Saul Goodman]

Seattle will permanently close 20 miles of residential streets to most vehicle traffic

The streets had been closed temporarily to through traffic to provide more space for people to walk and bike at a safe distance apart during the coronavirus pandemic.

www.seattletimes.com

Even in America they are starting to get it. So our home-grown transport dinosaurs should start to worry.

Yeah, let's all copy America, because they've proven themselves over and over to be at the forefront of sane ideas.

 

[teuchter]

A lot of stuff is physically built in a way that means it doesn't work without private vehicles. A lot of work happens in business parks and industrial estates that aren't well served by general radial/hub setup of public transport networks based on urban centres.

There are various planning authorities, mainly outside of London who are still allowing this nonsense. They should be rounded up, and sent off to a boot camp where they are taught that it's not the 1970s any more. The boot camp should be located in one of these estates and they should all be forced to get there using public transport or on foot. Each day.

 

[WouldBe]

You could maybe use of of those big shared cars that carries 50 people or so at a time.

Last place I worked the busses weren't running at times needed to get to or from work for some shifts.

 

[not-bono-ever]

Yeah, let's all copy America, because they've proven themselves over and over to be at the forefront of sane ideas.

Seattle is in no way reflective of the rest of the USA. Lots of left history in the background of the NW. Mate is a cycling journo who lives there - a closing of streets to cars is not untypical of a seattle viewpoint

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Last place I worked the busses weren't running at times needed to get to or from work for some shifts.

An argument for more buses, not cars.

 

[teuchter]

Seattle is in no way reflective of the rest of the USA. Lots of left history in the background of the NW. Mate is a cycling journo who lives there - a closing of streets to cars is not untypical of a seattle viewpoint

They've even been doing it in California

Oakland to open up 74 miles of city streets to pedestrians and cyclists

The mayor’s ‘slow streets’ initiative will allow the California city’s residents to enjoy the outdoors ‘free of cars’

www.theguardian.com

 

[sleaterkinney]

A 20% to 30% reduction would still be a great improvement. Baby steps and all.

I guess I see car use like eating meat. Banning them completely wouldn't work but cutting down would be good both for individual people's health and for the environment in general.

For journeys of 1-2 miles over 60% are by car currently.

 

[Sue]

For journeys of 1-2 miles over 60% are by car currently.

Which is obvs nonsense. I'm always amazed by colleagues who baulk at walking 15 minutes to get somewhere. (And young, healthy, able-bodied types, not people with mobiIity issues or whatever.)

 

[WouldBe]

An argument for more buses, not cars.

That would still mean 3.5 hours traveling time added on to a 12 hour shift instead of just under an hour by car.

 

[teuchter]

That would still mean 3.5 hours traveling time added on to a 12 hour shift instead of just under an hour by car.

Make sure you keep fighting for your right to your 2.5 hour privilege over those who don't have a car.

 

[scifisam]

It's not difficult to arrange delivery of bulky and heavy items if you don't drive. I've somehow managed to refloor two rooms in this house without any of us being able to drive.

Those items come to your house in a van, or sometimes a car. They don't get carried to your door on public transport.

Bike for disabled people | Van Raam

Van Raam produces special needs bicycles for people with a disability or a limitation.

www.vanraam.com

Next.

I know people are well-meaning when they suggest this sort of thing, but it's really dismissive to post up one type of adapted bike and act as if that solves the problem - "next." Lots and lots of people with disabilities can't use adapted bikes. Many of the adaptations seem to assume that everyone with a disability is paraplegic due to a car crash and otherwise fine.

My knees can't bend well, my feet can't push the pedals, and my hands can't control the brakes. There's no adapted bike in the world that can adapt for that. And this is due to arthritis, not exactly an uncommon condition. I also occasionally phase out due to a sleep disorder, which is when cycling first started to become risky for me. My daughter has autism and can't focus well enough to cycle safely - we cycled a lot when she was a kid and I was mobile (cycling was my main mode of transport until I was 35), so it's not like she hasn't tried. Even with only other bikes on the road, she'd be a danger to herself and others. My stepdad had a stroke and is half blind and has dementia.

Your adapted bike solution is not the be all and end all, so please think again before posting that link and "next."

Anyway, this is how you do it:

1 - Ban all private cars from city centres, with limited exceptions for some blue badge holders
2 - Build large park and ride areas on the outskirts of cities
3 - Segregated cycleways everywhere
4 - Daytime HGV/van delivery in cities banned. Overnight access allowed. Daytime cargo bike delivery encouraged where possible.
5 - Massively increased investment in both public transport capacity and fare subsidy, based on a fully nationalised, integrated transport network.
6 - Increase in fuel costs, a switch to per mile charging for private car use, mandatory dash cams and speed trackers.
7 - Changed light sequences at most junctions, with pedestrians and bicycles given default priority

There's more, but that would be a good start.

Agreed with 3, with caveats, 5, 6 and 7. 2 is already happening, isn't it? Not sure why you'd say "some" blue badge holders should be allowed into the city - how do you choose which ones? And, um banning daytime delivery would be utterly shit for the workers and the people getting deliveries. Most supermarket deliveries to homes are in HGVs or vans. Don't think you've thought that one through.

Make sure you keep fighting for your right to your 2.5 hour privilege over those who don't have a car.

Also keep fighting for your privilege of being able to not need private transport ever.

Don't think anyone's suggested no cars for business use or to provide essential services where it is most efficient to use cars to do so. They're just saying you can't use it to drive to Hooters on your day off.

Teuchter has.

And I know I'm playing to his tune, like we all are. We're all bored.

 

[Saul Goodman]

Make sure you keep fighting for your right to your 2.5 hour privilege over those who don't have a car.

Or you could sell your nice house and buy cars for lots of people.

 

[Clair De Lune]

As things stand, many wouldn't be able to get to town centres without a car. There needs to be much more investment in public transport before people will wilingly give up their cars (or vote for a government that would ban them).

Yep. But we can all reduce our use of environment damaging things if we really give a shit right?

 

[SpookyFrank]

There are various planning authorities, mainly outside of London who are still allowing this nonsense. They should be rounded up, and sent off to a boot camp where they are taught that it's not the 1970s any more. The boot camp should be located in one of these estates and they should all be forced to get there using public transport or on foot. Each day.

Apart from anything else, 'business parks' are such desperate places. There are some currently being built round here in green belt land, miles from anywhere. Madness.

 

[platinumsage]

The most equitable solution is obviously a mandatory tracking device in every car linked to HMRC and to a database containing your medical records and other personal information. Then the government could punitively tax people for unnecessary journeys, as the system would know whether you could have feasibly made the journey by public transport. There would be an appeals system of course, with an opportunity to provide documentary evidence to prove necessity, and there would also be Revenue & Customs agents conducting surveillence to make sure e.g. you weren't bunking off your GP appointment to go to a house party across the road.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Bike for disabled people | Van Raam

Van Raam produces special needs bicycles for people with a disability or a limitation.

www.vanraam.com

Next.

As somebody whose work involves helping less able people to use bicycles and adapted bicycle-based machines I can confirm that, sadly, there is not a bike for everyone. With some training and practice you can take a blind person for a ride on a tandem, but it's never going to be solution for their independent, day-to-day transport needs. There are bikes and trikes you can power with hands rather than feet but they require a fair bit of strength.

Bikes are only ever going to be part of a solution. People here have posted in some detail about why they need to use private vehicles, and there's no reason a much reduced fleet of cars, vans etc can't remain in use without the unacceptable risks to public health and the environment they currently represent.

But 'I want three cars because I like driving' is not good enough. Cars that go at 150mph without breaking a sweat are not acceptable. It is time we behaved like a society of adults.

 

[maomao]

As I said earlier what they say and what they do can be different. A bit like the gov saying they have plenty of PPE when they don't and what they do have 45% is out of date. But never mind eh.

Stagecoach is a multinational company running thousands of routes and their published terms of carriage carry legal weight. If you or your imaginary friend feel you have been refused carriage unfairly please contact your local customer services department at yorkshire.enquiries@stagecoachbus.com (I'm aware Chesterfield is in Derbyshire but 'Stagecoach in Chesterfield' is a trading name of Stagecoach Yorkshire) as you are entitled to an apology and an explanation and in some cases compensation (don't get too excited, I once managed to get a score out of tfl but it was all oyster credit).

You might want to get the above information printed on a leaflet to hand to the throngs of people marching up your road carrying paint tins.

 

[WouldBe]

Stagecoach is a multinational company running thousands of routes and their published terms of carriage carry legal weight.

Like airlines are legally required to issue full cash refunds if a flight is cancelled yet a lot are trying to fob customers off with credit notes which will be worth jackshit if they go bust.

 

[Athos]

Yep. But we can all reduce our use of environment damaging things if we really give a shit right?

Yes, to a point. Then we can't without better infrastructure.

 

[teuchter]

Those items come to your house in a van, or sometimes a car. They don't get carried to your door on public transport.



I know people are well-meaning when they suggest this sort of thing, but it's really dismissive to post up one type of adapted bike and act as if that solves the problem - "next." Lots and lots of people with disabilities can't use adapted bikes. Many of the adaptations seem to assume that everyone with a disability is paraplegic due to a car crash and otherwise fine.

My knees can't bend well, my feet can't push the pedals, and my hands can't control the brakes. There's no adapted bike in the world that can adapt for that. And this is due to arthritis, not exactly an uncommon condition. I also occasionally phase out due to a sleep disorder, which is when cycling first started to become risky for me. My daughter has autism and can't focus well enough to cycle safely - we cycled a lot when she was a kid and I was mobile (cycling was my main mode of transport until I was 35), so it's not like she hasn't tried. Even with only other bikes on the road, she'd be a danger to herself and others. My stepdad had a stroke and is half blind and has dementia.

Your adapted bike solution is not the be all and end all, so please think again before posting that link and "next."



Agreed with 3, with caveats, 5, 6 and 7. 2 is already happening, isn't it? Not sure why you'd say "some" blue badge holders should be allowed into the city - how do you choose which ones? And, um banning daytime delivery would be utterly shit for the workers and the people getting deliveries. Most supermarket deliveries to homes are in HGVs or vans. Don't think you've thought that one through.



Also keep fighting for your privilege of being able to not need private transport ever.



Teuchter has.

And I know I'm playing to his tune, like we all are. We're all bored.

I suppose no-one's actually watched the video in the first post, but it very specifically says that exceptions should be made for those with disabilities, as does pretty much every single proposal along these lines.

Of course the ideal system is one that provides proper access for people with disabilities whether or not they own a car.

If you want to reduce the number of people driving around to collect heavy items then something like a cargo bike can be part of the solution. Obviously it can't be the only solution but maybe it can make a significant dent in the amount of trips, which in turn can allow things that make things in general better for those with disabilities, like streets that are easier to cross, or wider pavements. Just beacause a cargo bike is not the solution for everyone, doesn't mean it's not a potential solution for quite a lot of people.

Let's talk about elderly people. They'll often have reduced mobility. You can provide them with a car and a shop 5 miles away. Then they become unable to drive, and there's no supermarket deliveries in their area. They become totally dependent on others (with cars) to bring them their basic needs. Or you try and build a system where there is a shop 5 minutes walk away. When they can no longer drive, it might well be that it's still possible for them to do at least some of their shopping on foot maybe with a trolley. Maybe that's not possible for them and they still need help. But they don't need an able bodied person to do a ten mile round trip - they just need someone who can walk 5 or 10 minutes, maybe even someone can do it with a cargo bike. It all helps to keep traffic off the roads and it helps people stay independent as long as possible. The reason local shops have disappeared in many places is that 90% of their former customers own cars and drive miles to a big supermarket. The other 10% make do with rubbish public transport or rely on help from others. And that's a direct result of us giving up and letting private car ownership drive what's offered not just to those who do own one, but a massive degradation in what's offered to those who don't.

 

[Saul Goodman]

. It is time we behaved like a society of adults.

No, it isn't

Let's talk about elderly people. They'll often have reduced mobility. You can provide them with a car and a shop 5 miles away. Then they become unable to drive, and there's no supermarket deliveries in their area. They become totally dependent on others (with cars) to bring them their basic needs. Or you try and build a system where there is a shop 5 minutes walk away. When they can no longer drive, it might well be that it's still possible for them to do at least some of their shopping on foot maybe with a trolley. Maybe that's not possible for them and they still need help. But they don't need an able bodied person to do a ten mile round trip - they just need someone who can walk 5 or 10 minutes, maybe even someone can do it with a cargo bike. It all helps to keep traffic off the roads and it helps people stay independent as long as possible. The reason local shops have disappeared in many places is that 90% of their former customers own cars and drive miles to a big supermarket. The other 10% make do with rubbish public transport or rely on help from others. And that's a direct result of us giving up and letting private car ownership drive what's offered not just to those who do own one, but a massive degradation in what's offered to those who don't.

What's your plan? Build a supermarket within 5 minutes walk of (next door to) every old person's house? That's a lot of supermarkets.

 

[Athos]

Local shops wouldn't provide the range if goods, and would likely be significantly more expensive. At the end of the day, for most people the loss of a car would be a big hit to their quality of life (even with improvements to public transport). It's a hard sell.

 

[teuchter]

Local shops wouldn't provide the range if goods, and would likely be significantly more expensive. At the end of the day, for most people the loss of a car would be a big hit to their quality of life (even with improvements to public transport). It's a hard sell.

Have you ever actually met or talked to a human who doesn't own a car - and/or visited a place where it's quite straightforward to live without one?

 

[SpookyFrank]

A hard sell. Note how people who want to drive cars don't have to 'sell' the idea to anyone, depsite the costs to public health. It is the assumed position, the default setting, and not for reasons relating to the general public good.