Entirely unashamed anti car propaganda, and the more the better.

[platinumsage]

No it doesn't. Bicycles tend to be safer when there are more of them. There's nothing inherently dangerous about a large increase in cycling or buses.

There were more bicycles during the pandemic yet lots more fatalities, so that's clearly wrong. As to buses they are more dangerous to pedestrians per mile than any other vehicle type. Asserting that a massive increase in bicycle use and bus use wouldn't be "fundamentally unsafe" is clearly wrong.

 

[maomao]

buses they are more dangerous to pedestrians per mile than any other vehicle type.

Passenger mile or vehicle mile? You don't get a bus each you know.

 

[Orang Utan]

There were more bicycles during the pandemic yet lots more fatalities, so that's clearly wrong. As to buses they are more dangerous to pedestrians per mile than any other vehicle type. Asserting that a massive increase in bicycle use and bus use wouldn't be "fundamentally unsafe" is clearly wrong.

Tell that to the Dutch/Danish/Belgians/Melbas and wait for the laughter and mocking (though that will probs just be from the Melbas, as the North Europeans would probably just confine their mocking feelings to a wry quizzical look)

 

[sleaterkinney]

There were more bicycle during the pandemic yet lots more fatalities, so that's clearly wrong. As to buses they are more dangerous to pedestrians per mile than any other vehicle type. Asserting that a massive increase in bicycle use and bus use wouldn't be "fundamentally unsafe" is clearly wrong.

What you’re also missing is motorists speeding on the emptier roads, during a time of great pressure on the NHS.

 

[platinumsage]

Tell that to the Dutch/Danish/Belgians/Melbas and wait for the laughter and mocking (though that will probs just be from the Melbas, as the North Europeans would probably just confine their mocking feelings to a wry quizzical look)

Funny you should mention Belgium. That’s a high outlier for both pedestrian fatalities per km and cycling fatalities per km, a far more dangerous place to do either activity than the UK.

I don’t have bus data to hand so can’t comment on the rest of your conjecture.

 

[maomao]

I don’t have bus data to hand so can’t comment on the rest of your conjecture.

Luckily I do. Despite buses being more dangerous to pedestrians per vehicle kilometre, cars are four times as dangerous per passenger kilometre.

Traveling by Bus Instead of Car on Urban Major Roads: Safety Benefits for Vehicle Occupants, Pedestrians, and Cyclists

Some studies have estimated fatality and injury rates for bus occupants, but data was aggregated at the country level and made no distinction between bus types. Also, injured pedestrians and cyclists, as a result of bus travel, were overlooked. We compared ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Orang Utan]

Funny you should mention Belgium. That’s a high outlier for both pedestrian fatalities per km and cycling fatalities per km, a far more dangerous place to do either activity than the UK.

I don’t have bus data to hand so can’t comment on the rest of your conjecture.

Perhaps look at the cycle-friendly towns then - such as Antwerp

 

[edcraw]

They’ve made changes to a junction in Edinburgh but tons of drivers happily ignoring it and driving the wrong way down a one way street. Selfish bastards.

 

[mojo pixy]

Nah, only dickheads do advanced driving courses, so they can boast about it in order to impress absolutely no one apart from maybe Alan Partridge

I have to admit I did an advanced driving course years ago. I'd had crashes and I decided I needed and wanted to drive better. I wanted better habits and to feel safer. It honestly helped me, even though now I don't have a car and only occasionally drive for work. I don't brag about it, but I can say for sure it made me a more attentive, cautious driver. I think it made me a more attentive, cautious cyclist too, the road awareness benefits are the same for both. I wouldn't recommend the IAM, who I did mine with, because I got a really cunty vibe from almost everyone except this one instructor, but there are other courses. Personally, I'd always recommend doing one because knowing what I know now, it's clear the standard test really is bare-minimum stuff. A lot of this very thread testifies to that anyway.

So yeah, cunty braggart car dickheads are one thing but actually better drivers are another.

 

[sleaterkinney]

On the danger side of things, cycling is very beneficial for your health:

 

[teuchter]

So you’re pointing out that at a time when loads more people cycled, some extra cyclists died? Surely this needs measuring as a proportion of cyclist-miles, not pure deaths. If there were twice as many cyclists but only 40% more deaths, that would suggest the inverse of your inference.

Guess what - the inverse of platinumsage's inference is indeed suggested.

Reported road casualties Great Britain, provisional results: 2020

www.gov.uk

According to that report, some facts about 2020, the year when everyone drove less:

• total number of fatalities by road user type went down for every type except cyclists
• total number of casualties by road user type went down for every type including cyclists
• looking at total fatalities: although 40 additional cyclists were killed, 112 fewer car occupants were killed, 54 fewer motorcyclists were killed, 115 fewer pedestrians were killed.
• in total 25,219 fewer car occupants were injured. 2,654 fewer motorcyclists were injured. 654 fewer cyclists were injured. 7,053 fewer pedestrians were injured.
• cycling became safer, with a 4% reduction in deaths per mile travelled and a massive 34% reduction in casualties per mile travelled
• bus and coach travel became significantly safer at least in terms of casualties.

So as far as I can see, the main finding of the "experiment" was that if everyone drives less, and lots more people cycle, much fewer people get killed (about 241 fewer people) or injured (about 35,500 people), and cycling becomes a significantly safer mode of transport.

platinumsage's conclusion:

encouraging drivers to switch to cycling should be done very cautiously, perhaps with due regard to cyclist training

 

[platinumsage]

A gentle commuting comparison, (or insidious propaganda):

 

[bcuster]

 

[maomao]

A gentle commuting comparison, (or insidious propaganda):

Tokyo looks more livable. I've lived in an Asian megacity and a US sprawl and the US was much harder. Even though we had a car (not mine, I was 12-13) it always felt so isolated. I'd been round London on buses and tubes but couldn't really get anywhere without a lift.

 

[stethoscope]

Last time I stayed with my Aunt and Uncle in Connecticut, they had to drive everywhere - groceries, doctors... And they're hitting their mid 70s with no family and having to think about what happens if they're unable to drive. Felt proper isolating to me.

 

[platinumsage]

Lots of brief clips at the start of this video but I'm interested in the longer one from 00:48 onward where the cyclist is interviewed. What do you think were the things done wrong before the crash, and how could each of the parties involved avoided it and what can they both learn for the future?

Driver and cyclist near misses caught on camera

New research by BBC Panorama highlights the strained relationship between the road users.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[edcraw]

Lots of brief clips at the start of this video but I'm interested in the longer one from 00:48 onward where the cyclist is interviewed. What do you think were the things done wrong before the crash, and how could each of the parties involved avoided it and what can they both learn for the future?

Driver and cyclist near misses caught on camera

New research by BBC Panorama highlights the strained relationship between the road users.

www.bbc.co.uk

What are your views?

And why are you so focused on that one rather than any of the others?

 

[platinumsage]

What are your views?

And why are you so focused on that one rather than any of the others?

Apparently people are bored of my views so I’m in interested in how others would approach this.

I’m focused on that one clip because it’s the only one that is longer than a couple of seconds and for which a person involved is interviewed.

 

[teuchter]

Lots of brief clips at the start of this video but I'm interested in the longer one from 00:48 onward where the cyclist is interviewed. What do you think were the things done wrong before the crash, and how could each of the parties involved avoided it and what can they both learn for the future?

Driver and cyclist near misses caught on camera

New research by BBC Panorama highlights the strained relationship between the road users.

www.bbc.co.uk

From the limited oblique view available in the video, it appears that neither of them were using the roundabout properly. It seems the cyclist thought he had priority, but it looks like he might not have. It seems strange he did not go around the back of the car. Exactly what happened is impossible to discern. I imagine there is lengthy discussion elsewhere on the internet.

 

[edcraw]

Apparently people are bored of my views so I’m in interested in how others would approach this.

 

[edcraw]

Love that they had to scrap the barrel with Rod Liddell when finding folks to rant about cyclists!

 

[platinumsage]

From the limited oblique view available in the video, it appears that neither of them were using the roundabout properly. It seems the cyclist thought he had priority, but it looks like he might not have. It seems strange he did not go around the back of the car. Exactly what happened is impossible to discern. I imagine there is lengthy discussion elsewhere on the internet.

As I see it they both committed three violations of the law as set out in the Traffic Sign Regulations and General Directions 2016 -

Car driver violates:

"a vehicle entering the junction must give priority to vehicles coming from the right at the transverse road marking"

Cyclist violates:

"vehicular traffic approaching [such] a junction should give way at, or immediately beyond, the line to traffic circulating on the carriageway of the roundabout"

Both violate:

"a vehicle proceeding through the junction must keep to the left of the white circle"

"no vehicle is to proceed past the [white circle] in a manner, or at a time, likely to endanger any person, or to cause the driver of another vehicle to change its speed or course in order to avoid an accident."

I think the words of the cyclist at the end are important: "I now don't trust any drivers so I'm much more twitchy around vehicles until the moment I'm sure they've stopped, seen me and are not pulling out." That's probably how most sensible novice cyclists approach things.

Who'd have thunk it was so hard for two people to use a junction? I assume therefore that when self-driving cars (and tricycles or whatever) become the norm, cyclists will have to be banned from most roads.

 

[edcraw]

As I see it they both committed three violations of the law as set out in the Traffic Sign Regulations and General Directions 2016 -

Car driver violates:

"a vehicle entering the junction must give priority to vehicles coming from the right at the transverse road marking"

Cyclist violates:

"vehicular traffic approaching [such] a junction should give way at, or immediately beyond, the line to traffic circulating on the carriageway of the roundabout"

Both violate:

"a vehicle proceeding through the junction must keep to the left of the white circle"

"no vehicle is to proceed past the [white circle] in a manner, or at a time, likely to endanger any person, or to cause the driver of another vehicle to change its speed or course in order to avoid an accident."

I think the words of the cyclist at the end are important: "I now don't trust any drivers so I'm much more twitchy around vehicles until the moment I'm sure they've stopped, seen me and are not pulling out." That's probably how most sensible novice cyclists approach things.

Who'd have thunk it was so hard for two people to use a junction? I assume therefore that when self-driving cars (and tricycles or whatever) become the norm, cyclists will have to be banned from most roads.

Come on mate - that didn’t last very long

Apparently people are bored of my views so I’m in interested in how others would approach this.

 

[platinumsage]

Come on mate - that didn’t last very long

I invited you to engage but you repeatedly deflected. You can still redeem yourself and comment on the incident should you actually want to.

 

[edcraw]

I invited you to engage but you repeatedly deflected. You can still redeem yourself and comment on the incident should you actually want to.

I just want you to stick to your earlier promise but a troll’s gotta troll I guess

 

[platinumsage]

I just want you to stick to your earlier promise but a troll’s gotta troll I guess

Where did I promise anything

 

[teuchter]

As I see it they both committed three violations of the law as set out in the Traffic Sign Regulations and General Directions 2016 -

Car driver violates:

"a vehicle entering the junction must give priority to vehicles coming from the right at the transverse road marking"

Cyclist violates:

"vehicular traffic approaching [such] a junction should give way at, or immediately beyond, the line to traffic circulating on the carriageway of the roundabout"

Both violate:

"a vehicle proceeding through the junction must keep to the left of the white circle"

"no vehicle is to proceed past the [white circle] in a manner, or at a time, likely to endanger any person, or to cause the driver of another vehicle to change its speed or course in order to avoid an accident."

I think the words of the cyclist at the end are important: "I now don't trust any drivers so I'm much more twitchy around vehicles until the moment I'm sure they've stopped, seen me and are not pulling out." That's probably how most sensible novice cyclists approach things.

Who'd have thunk it was so hard for two people to use a junction? I assume therefore that when self-driving cars (and tricycles or whatever) become the norm, cyclists will have to be banned from most roads.

Thanks for contributing your fascinating commentary to the thread. It took the number of replies from 9,351 to 9,352.

 

[platinumsage]

Thanks for contributing your fascinating commentary to the thread. It took the number of replies from 9,351 to 9,352.

Have another one, although I can’t compete with edcraw who turned your attempts at assembling a coherent argument for banning cars globally into a succession of third-rate videos of cyclists committing minor traffic violations.

 

[edcraw]

 

[platinumsage]

It was a shit program, typical BBC "impartiality" where they grab some randoms from each side of an absurd divide, call that "balance", and make out that they the two groups are representive of the general population. See Brexit etc.