Entirely unashamed anti car propaganda, and the more the better.

[platinumsage]

Nah, only dickheads do advanced driving courses, so they can boast about it in order to impress absolutely no one apart from maybe Alan Partridge

Funny how the most dangerous thing most people do regularly apparently warrants no further study or reflection beyond a simple test X decades ago.

 

[Orang Utan]

Fun

Funny how the most dangerous thing most people do regularly apparently warrants no further study or reflection beyond a simple test X decades ago.

Funny how the worst most dangerous roadhogs like to boast of their advanced driving quals - put your beige gloves away, brrrm-brrrm boy

 

[platinumsage]

Fun

Funny how the worst most dangerous roadhogs like to boast of their advanced driving schools. put your beige gloves away

Funny how people just make up random insults instead of address the issue. May as well say "funny how pedestrians need a slap" or something.

 

[platinumsage]

Might be worth distinguishing between a "driving test" where you concentrate for half an hour on not exposing your bad habits, and some kind of knowledge test which is basically about ensuring everyone is up to date on changes to the highway code every few years. And yes there's an argument for cyclists and scooterists doing the latter, but probably no practicable way of enforcing it. Perhaps there could be a motorist funded incentive scheme.

Yes, the poor standard of training and testing is why we have to have television adverts telling drivers to stop on the hard shoulder and not the outside lane if they have a mechanical problem on the motorway.

 

[platinumsage]

If anyone wants to think a bit more about their driving without doing a police-derived Alan Partridge wankers course this book might be a good start, written by a software engineer not an ex-police interceptor or whatever:

9781873371169: Mind Driving: New Skills for Staying Alive on the Road - Haley, Stephen: 1873371160 - AbeBooks

Mind Driving: New Skills for Staying Alive on the Road by Haley, Stephen at AbeBooks.co.uk - ISBN 10: 1873371160 - ISBN 13: 9781873371169 - DIA Publishing - 2006 - Softcover

www.abebooks.co.uk

 

[teuchter]

Yes, the poor standard of training and testing is why we have to have television adverts telling drivers to stop on the hard shoulder and not the outside lane if they have a mechanical problem on the motorway.

The level of training and testing is where it is in order that pretty much anyone can pass, because we have built ourselves a fundamentally unsafe system of transport and then made lots of things dependent on nearly anyone being able to use it.

 

[sleaterkinney]

"I'm a special driver, I took an advanced driving course"

 

[maomao]

Platinumsage getting his IAM certificate. He put his best tie and fleece combo on for the test.

 

[sleaterkinney]

The level of training and testing is where it is in order that pretty much anyone can pass, because we have built ourselves a fundamentally unsafe system of transport and then made lots of things dependent on nearly anyone being able to use it.

Of course, and you don’t need an advanced driving course or a big powerful car to do your weekly shop at some grim out of town tesco. It's just Ego.

 

[maomao]

There are several things that worry me about advanced motoring courses. Drivers that have done them have told me they've been instructed to drive slightly above the speed limit and 'take a commanding position on the road'. No organisation should be teaching non adherence to the Highway Code or telling people that they should behave differently from other drivers.

More worryingly, because it's a small, motivated group of drivers it sets them up as 'experts' giving out dodgy advice to other drivers, often many years after they did the silly course.

There should be a single testing authority and it should start with absolute adherence to the Highway Code.

 

[Elpenor]

And don’t forget there was a study where 88% of men rated themselves above average drivers. Presumably their self-diagnosed giftedness allows them to drive faster and more dangerously …

 

[platinumsage]

The level of training and testing is where it is in order that pretty much anyone can pass, because we have built ourselves a fundamentally unsafe system of transport and then made lots of things dependent on nearly anyone being able to use it.

Obviously your ideal scenario of a hundred-fold increase in bus movements combined with a hundred-fold increase in cycling wouldn't be fundamentally unsafe at all.

 

[platinumsage]

And don’t forget there was a study where 88% of men rated themselves above average drivers. Presumably their self-diagnosed giftedness allows them to drive faster and more dangerously …

Yes as I've said previosuly on this thread most people posting on it appear not just to be above-average drivers, but exceptionally gifted drivers who despite claiming to drive only occasionally never make any sort of mistake at all.

 

[platinumsage]

There are several things that worry me about advanced motoring courses. Drivers that have done them have told me they've been instructed to drive slightly above the speed limit and 'take a commanding position on the road'. No organisation should be teaching non adherence to the Highway Code or telling people that they should behave differently from other drivers.

More worryingly, because it's a small, motivated group of drivers it sets them up as 'experts' giving out dodgy advice to other drivers, often many years after they did the silly course.

There should be a single testing authority and it should start with absolute adherence to the Highway Code.

I've never heard of that or encoutnered anything like it, although it probably happens a lot on advanced motorbike courses.

 

[maomao]

Obviously your ideal scenario of a hundred-fold increase in bus movements combined with a hundred-fold increase in cycling wouldn't be fundamentally unsafe at all.

I'm not sure anyone's planning on 380% of Londoners commuting by bike, much less 4600% of them using public transport.

 

[platinumsage]

I'm not sure anyone's planning on 380% of Londoners commuting by bike, much less 4600% of them using public transport.

I was talking vehicle miles, rather than proportions or journey numbers or whatever.

 

[maomao]

I was talking vehicle miles, rather than proportions or journey numbers or whatever.

That makes even less sense. People who already rely on bicycles and public transport would have to increase their mileage.

 

[platinumsage]

That makes even less sense. People who already rely on bicycles and public transport would have to increase their mileage.

No, all the existing car drivers would enter the fray, travelling far more by bus and by cycle than existing bus and cycle users.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Oh, so you are a keen motorist despite your earlier protestation that you only blat down the M5 on holiday occasionally in your highly damaged death trap.

Not quite sure why my car is a "damaged death trap" but hey ho.

As for keen motorist - I've always said I like cars. I love the history, the design, the engineering. I've done loads of track days in everything from Caterhams to various supercars to single seaters. Have had session on a skidpan and multiple advance instruction sessions.

I've driven large vans and 7.5t trucks as part of how I make a living for over 15 years, and hold a CPC for such.

Here's the bit that your brain can't probably compute though - it's possible to do all of the above and still acknowledge that cars as a tool for to get around in our cities are an utterly terrible idea.

 

[maomao]

No, all the existing car drivers would enter the fray, travelling far more by bus and by cycle than existing bus and cycle users.

I was going to ask for your workings out but you're just pulling it out of your arse again aren't you.

 

[platinumsage]

I was going to ask for your workings out but you're just pulling it out of your arse again aren't you.

Not quite sure how you think teuchter's car-banning is going to work if existing car users only travel less by bus and by cycle than existing bus and cycle users. Presumably it would involve some sort of forced relocation of millions of people to urban tower-blocks next to tube stations.

 

[platinumsage]

Here's the bit that your brain can't probably compute though - it's possible to do all of the above and still acknowledge that cars as a tool for to get around in our cities are an utterly terrible idea.

Hmm, I must have forgotten the bit where I said cars were great for intra-city transport. It might surprise some people on here, but many city-dwellers do sometimes leave their cities, and find that a car is by far the most suitable and efficient vehicle for the task.

 

[maomao]

Not quite sure how you think teuchter's car-banning is going to work if existing car users only travel less by bus and by cycle than existing bus and cycle users. Presumably it would involve some sort of forced relocation of millions of people to urban tower-blocks next to tube stations.

I'm disputing a 'hundredfold' increase not any increase.

 

[platinumsage]

I'm disputing a 'hundredfold' increase not any increase.

Substitute "a largefold" if it makes you happier, my point still stands.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Hmm, I must have forgotten the bit where I said cars were great for intra-city transport. It might surprise some people on here, but many city-dwellers do sometimes leave their cities, and find that a car is by far the most suitable and efficient vehicle for the task.

Go back to the start of the thread, read though it all, slowly.

 

[platinumsage]

Go back to the start of the thread, read though it all, slowly.

Oh I'm the only person who has read it all.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Oh I'm the only person who has read it all.

I could read a doctorate thesis on advanced quantum theory, I wouldn't necessarily understand it though.

 

[platinumsage]

I could read a doctorate thesis on advanced quantum theory, I wouldn't necessarily understand it though.

Go on then.

 

[maomao]

Substitute "a largefold" if it makes you happier, my point still stands.

No it doesn't. Bicycles tend to be safer when there are more of them. There's nothing inherently dangerous about a large increase in cycling or buses.

 

[kabbes]

It’s not as simple as reducing miles driven. In 2020 during the pandemic we did a big experiment where people drove less but cycled more. In 2020 cyclist deaths increased 43% on the previous year as the total motor vehicle mileage dropped by 22%.

The reasons for this may be complex, but it seems clear that encouraging drivers to switch to cycling should be done very cautiously, perhaps with due regard to cyclist training.


View attachment 349314

So you’re pointing out that at a time when loads more people cycled, some extra cyclists died? Surely this needs measuring as a proportion of cyclist-miles, not pure deaths. If there were twice as many cyclists but only 40% more deaths, that would suggest the inverse of your inference.