Entirely unashamed anti car propaganda, and the more the better.

[platinumsage]

Ah, well spotted.

Still, 75% of rigid HGV drivers and 85% of articulated HGVs drivers are exceeding the 20mph speed limit, which is appalling.

They only sampled speeds at 10 locations for 20mph roads, and those locations were especially sought out as being unusual ones with no traffic calming measures. Perhaps mere yards before the commencement of higher limits, who knows.

Hardly "Distribution of vehicle speeds on 20mph roads in Great Britain"

 

[maomao]

They only sampled speeds at 10 locations for 20mph roads, and those locations were especially sought out as being unusual ones with no traffic calming measures. Perhaps mere yards before the commencement of higher limits, who knows.

Hardly "Distribution of vehicle speeds on 20mph roads in Great Britain"

Pretty good indicator of drivers' attitudes to 20mph speed limits per se though. If you included roads with traffic calming measures they would appear better behaved than they are, it would be next to meaningless.

 

[Pickman's model]

Is this where I point out that even traffic police say they don’t really care about cyclists jumping red lights in most circumstances as they’d rather concentrate on cars doing so, due to the massively increased consequences?

No? Never mind then.

I wouldn't hold up cops' views like this as proof of something important when we know that they only pay lip service to investigating crimes like mugging, theft, burglary and rape.

 

[platinumsage]

Pretty good indicator of drivers' attitudes to 20mph speed limits per se though. If you included roads with traffic calming measures they would appear better behaved than they are, it would be next to meaningless.

Depends whether you're assessing attitude to safe speed or attitude to the law.

I'd like to see some surveys of stuff like speeds through zebra crossings where there is a restricted view to either side. That will tell you a lot more about driver attitude both to the law and to the potential harm they can cause.

 

[kabbes]

They only sampled speeds at 10 locations for 20mph roads, and those locations were especially sought out as being unusual ones with no traffic calming measures. Perhaps mere yards before the commencement of higher limits, who knows.

Hardly "Distribution of vehicle speeds on 20mph roads in Great Britain"

To be honest, I’m horrified that drivers of vehicles the size of HGVs are routinely eclipsing a 20mph limit (and not by small amounts either, in most cases) regardless of where that 20mph limit is. They reserve 20mph limits for places that urbanised, and HGV drivers in particular have no business driving faster in those places. Even if it’s only one place that this is being measured, I think it smacks of contempt for the safety of others.

 

[Spymaster]

They reserve 20mph limits for places that urbanised, and HGV drivers in particular have no business driving faster in those places.

Kind of but some areas are more urbanised than others. There are many areas where 20 limits are completely justified but also many where they aren’t. TfL has a policy of blanket 20mph limits with a stated aim to reduce the limit to 20 on ALL of its roads by 2024. Obviously there are many London roads where a 20mph limit is patently ridiculous and people will ignore it in those circumstances. If those HGV samples are taken on roads like that, they won’t be representative of what’s going on more generally. Take the samples around schools and in residential streets and you’d likely come up with close to universal compliance.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Kind of but some areas are more urbanised than others. There are many areas where 20 limits are completely justified but also many where they aren’t. TfL has a policy of blanket 20mph limits with a stated aim to reduce the limit to 20 on ALL of its roads by 2024. Obviously there are many London roads where a 20mph limit is patently ridiculous and people will ignore it in those circumstances. If those HGV samples are taken on roads like that, they won’t be representative of what’s going on more generally. Take the samples around schools and in residential streets and you’d likely come up with close to universal compliance.

Why is a 20 mph limit ridiculous in any city or urban area?

“I want to go faster” is not a valid answer.

 

[platinumsage]

Why is a 20 mph limit ridiculous in any city or urban area?

“I want to go faster” is not a valid answer.

The limit needs to be appropriate for the risks.

You don’t get trains going 5mph over all level crossings, under bridges and in urban areas so they can stop in case someone seems likely to jump in front of them do you? 253 killed last year in such situations.

 

[Spymaster]

Why is a 20 mph limit ridiculous in any city or urban area?

Because all laws should be representative of the danger posed, and reflect the seriousness of the potential consequences of breaking them. You could reduce incidents of cyclists hitting pedestrians on pavements to practically zero by destroying the cycles of offenders on the spot and imprisoning them for 10 years for a first offence. Would that be reasonable?

 

[maomao]

Because all laws should be representative of the danger posed, and reflect the seriousness of the potential consequences of breaking them. You could reduce incidents of cyclists hitting pedestrians on pavements to practically zero by destroying the cycles of offenders on the spot and imprisoning them for 10 years for a first offence. Would that be reasonable?

A pedestrian is eight more times as likely to be killed when hit at 30mph than 20mph so yes the seriousness of the potential consequences is huge. Unlike cycling on pavements which kills very very few people.

 

[Spymaster]

A pedestrian is eight more times as likely to be killed when hit at 30mph than 20mph so yes the seriousness of the potential consequences is huge.

Not if there's practically no chance of hitting a pedestrian, Walt.

 

[Pickman's model]

A pedestrian is eight more times as likely to be killed when hit at 30mph than 20mph so yes the seriousness of the potential consequences is huge. Unlike cycling on pavements which kills very very few people.

i suppose you'll give us the stats on injuries in a moment.

 

[maomao]

Not if there's practically no chance of hitting a pedestrian, Walt.

Many parts of London are inaccessible to pedestrians because of the twats in cars whizzing around, Dennis.

 

[Spymaster]

Many parts of London are inaccessible to pedestrians because of the twats in cars whizzing around, Dennis.

Oh dear.

 

[maomao]

Oh dear.

Nothing to say again, Dennis.

 

[Spymaster]

Nothing to say again, Dennis.

I hear the price of fish rose again today, Walt.

 

[Spymaster]

I've seen someone killed by a black cab driver sticking his foot down

Missed this!

 

[maomao]

I hear the price of fish rose again today, Walt.

That's just the smell of all the fanny you've been talking.

 

[sleaterkinney]

Not if there's practically no chance of hitting a pedestrian, Walt.

That relies on local knowledge etc, far safer to have a blanket limit and remove any kind of practically no chance type guesswork.

 

[maomao]

Missed this!

View attachment 327619

Believe what you like Dennis, I'm consistent and it's unfortunately a true story.

https://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/have-you-ever-seen-a-dead-body.12970/page-2#post-502026

 

[Spymaster]

That relies on local knowledge etc, far safer to have a blanket limit and remove any kind of practically no chance type guesswork.

Nonsense. You can see how a piece of road looks and often it's blindingly obvious. This is why so many councils were forced to remove thousands of speed cameras in the great camera cull a few years ago. If there's no safety reason for them (or very low speed limits) to be in place, they needn't be there.

 

[Spymaster]

Believe what you like Dennis, I'm consistent ...

You certainly are!

 

[maomao]

You certainly are!

View attachment 327620

You normally start posting pictures when you've clearly lost the argument Dennis so I'll take that as another admission of defeat.

 

[Spymaster]

You normally start posting pictures when you've clearly lost the argument ...

You've got no idea what the pictures are about, Walt!

You are but a cog

 

[maomao]

You've got no idea what the pictures are about, Walt!

You are but a cog

You're presumably trying to compare the excitement you feel reading my posts to what you felt watching match of the day as a child. I appreciate the thought but it's getting a bit embarrassing.

And presumably the Walt is a reference to Walt Whitman whose writing mine reminds you of. Just as your gregarious nature, love of alcohol, poor housekeeping skills and threatening darker side remind me of Dennis Nilsen, hence your new nickname.

 

[Spymaster]

You're presumably trying to compare the excitement you feel reading my posts to what you felt watching match of the day as a child. I appreciate the thought but it's getting a bit embarrassing.

And presumably the Walt is a reference to Walt Whitman whose writing mine reminds you of. Just as your gregarious nature, love of alcohol, poor housekeeping skills and threatening darker side remind me of Dennis Nilsen, hence your new nickname.

Outstanding response!

Take a bow ...

 

[maomao]

Outstanding response!

Take a bow ...

View attachment 327631

This is fun Del.

 

[Pickman's model]

View attachment 327634

This is fun Del.

that's den not del

 

[Spymaster]

View attachment 327634

This is fun Del.

Dennis.

I was going to suggest you post a few pics too. It's what this thread deserves!

 

[maomao]

that's den not del

I've known a Dennis known as Del. Though that may have been one of those rule-proving exceptions.