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Entirely unashamed anti car propaganda, and the more the better.

teuchter said:
I just want you to deliver what you said you would. So far your performance seems to have been inspired by our prime minister's regard for detail.
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There’s a little wheel on most computer mice nowadays. Roll it with your finger in an away from you direction. If using a mobile device or a computer with touchscreen, touch it at the lower end and move your finger upwards.

HTH.
 
T & P said:
There’s a little wheel on most computer mice nowadays. Roll it with your finger in an away from you direction. If using a mobile device or a computer with touchscreen, touch it at the lower end and move your finger upwards.

HTH.
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On another point of detail - the advice you give for a mouse wheel is incorrect because it can be configured to operate in either direction. I think I've even done a thread dealing with this issue - shame you didn't read it.

You'd understand and learn more if you read threads properly.

We know that many people in positions of influence read this thread and have been educated by it. That's how good transport policy is developed - by reading stuff written by people like me and agreeing with it. Maybe in the future you'll get it.
 
teuchter said:
On another point of detail - the advice you give for a mouse wheel is incorrect because it can be configured to operate in either direction. I think I've even done a thread dealing with this issue - shame you didn't read it.

You'd understand and learn more if you read threads properly.

We know that many people in positions of influence read this thread and have been educated by it. That's how good transport policy is developed - by reading stuff written by people like me and agreeing with it. Maybe in the future you'll get it.
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This must be a bit embarrassing even for you, right?
 
It's heartening to know that the person who started the thread is now opposed to banning private car use in cities. That puts their "long term agenda of eliminating the private car from the planet forever" far out of reach.
 
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edcraw said:
Three people have died so far at this year’s Isle of Mann TT and depressingly they just carry on. Personally I think the race sets a terrible example and encourages reckless motorbike riders on roads.

www.bbc.com

NI rider Morgan killed in IOM TT crash

Northern Ireland rider Davy Morgan is killed in a crash during the Supersport race at the Isle of Man TT.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com
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Nah, the TT is an incredible thing. Would be a travesty for it to go. It's sad some riders die, but everyone knows the risks. More people die riding horses, including kids.
 
Athos said:
Nah, the TT is an incredible thing. Would be a travesty for it to go. It's sad some riders die, but everyone knows the risks. More people die riding horses, including kids.
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Well there are two things that aren't comparable. More people ride horses in the UK than motorbikes, average horse riding (human) deaths per year: 4, average motorbike deaths per year: 350. 30,000 people attend the TT and average annual deaths: 2.5. More than half the annual horse riding (human) deaths with a little over 1% of the UK motorcycling population over the course of a few days. It wouldn't happen on the mainland and the Isle of Man authorities are vampires for letting it happen there. Plus you haven't even addressed the actual content of the post you're replying to which is that the annual IoM carnage contributes to the reckless riding that causes the 350 deaths a year on UK roads.

Personally, I'd ban horse racing (or change the rules drastically) to help prevent the 200+ horse deaths a year.
 
Mixed feelings about the TT. I’ve been several times, it’s an incredible spectacle, all the riders know the risks and are there by choice. I don’t think comparing deaths on a closed road sporting event to daily traffic incidents is particularly helpful.

Also I’m not sure it does really influence day to day riders. I’d rather see the quite ridiculous levels of performance that modern bikes are capable of pulled back, nobody - literally nobody - has the need for them on public roads.
 
beesonthewhatnow said:
Mixed feelings about the TT. I’ve been several times, it’s an incredible spectacle, all the riders know the risks and are there by choice. I don’t think comparing deaths on a closed road sporting event to daily traffic incidents is particularly helpful.

Also I’m not sure it does really influence day to day riders. I’d rather see the quite ridiculous levels of performance that modern bikes are capable of pulled back, nobody - literally nobody - has the need for them on public roads.
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I don’t think it is even debatable that public displays of bravado with crowds cheering on act to reproduce a social norm that public displays of bravado are to be cheered on. More debatable is the practical effect this has, but I would personally be surprised if it didn’t encourage young male idiots to emulate their idols on public roads. And also, more generally, I would personally expect it to affect the way that riders perceive their risk environment while driving.
 
I don't really see why we have to accept motorbikes or any other vehicles that are capable of speeds far beyond the legal limits, on public roads, at all. The extra power also translates into quicker acceleration even if speed limits aren't broken. I see it more and more, drivers accelerating and braking as hard as they can inbetween traffic lights and so on. It's very initimidating to pedestrians or other vulnerable road users. Yes, I expect someone will start spouting the usual nonsense that this acceleration power allows safer overtaking - no, it just gives you a better chance of getting out of the riskier moves that you take as a result of having that acceleration and wouldn't otherwise.

Keep a distinction between racing for fun (and let people take the risks involved if they want to) and everyday driving on public roads. It's pretty clear that there are drivers who want to emulate what they see on the racetrack, on public roads. On motorbikes or in cars.

Provide publicly subsidised racetracks around the country if that's what it takes.
 
maomao said:
Well there are two things that aren't comparable. More people ride horses in the UK than motorbikes, average horse riding (human) deaths per year: 4, average motorbike deaths per year: 350. 30,000 people attend the TT and average annual deaths: 2.5. More than half the annual horse riding (human) deaths with a little over 1% of the UK motorcycling population over the course of a few days. It wouldn't happen on the mainland and the Isle of Man authorities are vampires for letting it happen there. Plus you haven't even addressed the actual content of the post you're replying to which is that the annual IoM carnage contributes to the reckless riding that causes the 350 deaths a year on UK roads.

Personally, I'd ban horse racing (or change the rules drastically) to help prevent the 200+ horse deaths a year.
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I was addressing the implication that the TT should be banned because it caused three deaths this year. My point was that other activities that cause more deaths aren't. That more people take part in those other activities is neither here nor there in terms of saving lives.

I've not addressed the claim that the TT causes other deaths because, absent any evidence for that proposition, it's hard to prove a negative.
 
maomao said:
... annual IoM carnage contributes to the reckless riding that causes the 350 deaths a year on UK roads.
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I'd be surprised if that's the case, or at least want to see some evidence of it. I can't see why the TT would cause motorcyclists to go full-on Joey Dunlop, any more than the Monaco GP would make drivers want to emulate Lewis Hamilton.

With regard to the IoM authorities allowing it, it's a tradition of over 100 years and one of their prime tourist attractions. Why wouldn't they? If non-competitors regularly got killed you'd have a point but everyone out there knows what they sign-up for.
 
maomao said:
Because of fast car culture generally including the Monaco Grand Prix. Or do you not believe humans are capable of influencing each other through culture?
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I think people will drive fact things fast for as long as there are fast things to drive fast.

What I'd want to see is some kind of evidence of a correlation between organised motorsport and public road deaths, which is what you seem to be suggesting.
 
teuchter said:
I don't really see why we have to accept motorbikes or any other vehicles that are capable of speeds far beyond the legal limits, on public roads, at all. The extra power also translates into quicker acceleration even if speed limits aren't broken. I see it more and more, drivers accelerating and braking as hard as they can inbetween traffic lights and so on. It's very initimidating to pedestrians or other vulnerable road users. Yes, I expect someone will start spouting the usual nonsense that this acceleration power allows safer overtaking - no, it just gives you a better chance of getting out of the riskier moves that you take as a result of having that acceleration and wouldn't otherwise.

Keep a distinction between racing for fun (and let people take the risks involved if they want to) and everyday driving on public roads. It's pretty clear that there are drivers who want to emulate what they see on the racetrack, on public roads. On motorbikes or in cars.

Provide publicly subsidised racetracks around the country if that's what it takes.
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Whilst I agree with your proposal for municipal race tracks, the idea of limiting power is a bad one. Not only would it make overtaking much less safe, it'd also make it much harder to pop a wheelie.
 
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Spymaster said:
I think people will drive fact things fast for as long as there are fast things to drive fast.

What I'd want to see is some kind of evidence of a correlation between organised motorsport and public road deaths, which is what you seem to be suggesting.
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Sure, all you need for that is a control planet with no organised motorsports.
 
maomao said:
The existence of human culture.
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That human culture exists doesn't prove your assertion.

It's just something you've made up, without any proof.

For all you know the TT might save lives by the number of fatalities disuading prospective motorcyclists.
 
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