Entirely unashamed anti car propaganda, and the more the better.

[teuchter]

Been meaning for a little while to start a thread to collect links and info relating to my long term agenda of eliminating the private car from the planet forever.

There are some encouraging signs that there might even be slightly more appetite for this post covid - we will see - so now seems a good time to start.

To kick us off, here is a video that I didn't make (honest) but covers most of the main points for those unfamiliar with the arguments.

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

Surly the correct thing to do is not ban the car but make infrastructure good enough that the car is obsolete?









then ban the car

 

[dessiato]

Ok. Good idea. But how do I get to work, go shopping without a car? There’s no public transport here. The nearest supermarket is only a 15 minute walk, but I’d need to shop most days. Mrs Dess has developed arthritis in her hand so she can’t carry much. I can’t do that if I am at work too. My only option is a once a week big shop. That means using the car to transport everything. Supermarkets don’t do online here.

Work is a 45 minute drive away. How do I get there without a car? Just to remind you, there’s no public transport here.

I could move closer to work, but then my wife would have the drive. Or we could both work in the same town. But there isn’t enough work for both of us in either town.

Move somewhere else? Possibly, but who’s going cover the costs? Because of the lockdown we can’t afford to move somewhere else at the moment.

I welcome your suggestions.

 

[Pickman's model]

Been meaning for a little while to start a thread to collect links and info relating to my long term agenda of eliminating the private car from the planet forever.

There are some encouraging signs that there might even be slightly more appetite for this post covid - we will see - so now seems a good time to start.

To kick us off, here is a video that I didn't make (honest) but covers most of the main points for those unfamiliar with the arguments.

Banning the private car, I note, but not the hired car, the taxi or minicab

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

Banning the private car, I note, but not the hired car, the taxi or minicab

Another plot by the capitalist machine. Remove the concept of ownership and replace it with a service.

we must seize the means of locomotion.

 

[two sheds]

I like the Dutch Train taxi. The taxis (minivan size) wait outside the train station until there are enough people to nearly fill the taxi and then drop everyone off where they want to go. Only in cities now, but with apps and things would work more widely.

 

[Spymaster]

 

[teuchter]

Ok. Good idea. But how do I get to work, go shopping without a car? There’s no public transport here. The nearest supermarket is only a 15 minute walk, but I’d need to shop most days. Mrs Dess has developed arthritis in her hand so she can’t carry much. I can’t do that if I am at work too. My only option is a once a week big shop. That means using the car to transport everything. Supermarkets don’t do online here.

Work is a 45 minute drive away. How do I get there without a car? Just to remind you, there’s no public transport here.

I could move closer to work, but then my wife would have the drive. Or we could both work in the same town. But there isn’t enough work for both of us in either town.

Move somewhere else? Possibly, but who’s going cover the costs? Because of the lockdown we can’t afford to move somewhere else at the moment.

I welcome your suggestions.

I've answered these questions a zillion times on other threads, and don't have time to go through it all again just now. I intend to use this thread mainly as a repository for information.

The concise answer is that the aim is a reduction in car dependency. Of course you can't just ban cars and do nothing to change the infrastructure. You also can't change the infrastructure without banning cars. The two have to happen in parallel. We start with big cities and work outwards. In cities it's easy in practical terms (although more difficult politically) and proven. In rural areas it is less easy but in opinion not impossible. But like I say you start in cities which is where the majority of people now live. You provide good public transport so that people can get to places easily without their own transport. You provide more facilities locally, like shops that are in walking distance. You make systems for home delivery efficient. Widespread private car ownership directly makes these changes harder to implement.

 

[two sheds]

Just keep the lockdown going - massive reduction in car use.

 

[Spymaster]

 

[teuchter]

we must seize the means of locomotion.

That's pretty much exactly the concept of public transport.

 

[platinumsage]

The most efficient form of transport in rural areas is surely car ownership, perhaps with car hire for those who travel infrequently with taxis as an alternative. Buses every ten minutes from every village to everywhere else are inevitably going to be almost entirely empty most of the time due to the low population density.

 

[Steel Icarus]

25 pages

 

[two sheds]

The most efficient form of transport in rural areas is surely car ownership, perhaps with car hire for those who travel infrequently with taxis as an alternative. Buses every ten minutes from every village to everywhere else are inevitably going to be almost entirely empty most of the time due to the low population density.

Autonomous driving for Electric Vehicles will help solve that - an app summons the car (or minibus or whatever) which means fewer people again need cars.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Ok. Good idea. But how do I get to work, go shopping without a car? There’s no public transport here. The nearest supermarket is only a 15 minute walk, but I’d need to shop most days. Mrs Dess has developed arthritis in her hand so she can’t carry much. I can’t do that if I am at work too. My only option is a once a week big shop. That means using the car to transport everything. Supermarkets don’t do online here.

Work is a 45 minute drive away. How do I get there without a car? Just to remind you, there’s no public transport here.

I could move closer to work, but then my wife would have the drive. Or we could both work in the same town. But there isn’t enough work for both of us in either town.

Move somewhere else? Possibly, but who’s going cover the costs? Because of the lockdown we can’t afford to move somewhere else at the moment.

I welcome your suggestions.

Praise those without the wherewithal to learn to drive and buy a car, the more wallys they persuade to scale back their lives to the standards of Victorian peasants the more the roads will be nice and empty as they currently are, plus the skies are so much freer of pollution right now so there’s no reason not to go for that 5ltr AMG Mercedes

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

That's pretty much exactly the concept of public transport.

Mass transit is just another tool free to be misused by capitalism.

 

[weltweit]

You can have your car free cities, I don't want to go there anyhow.

But the rural motorist will be a feature for many years to come, out of necessity.

For the rural population, the car is freedom!

 

[two sheds]

Not if you don't want to go anywhere

 

[teuchter]

For the rural population, the car is freedom!

Seriously, go and tell that to someone who can't drive or can't afford to.

It's freedom for those fortunate enough to have it as an option.

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

Seriously, go and tell that to someone who can't drive or can't afford to.

It's freedom for those fortunate enough to have it as an option.

which will be nobody under your draconian system!

 

[two sheds]

which will be nobody under your draconian system!

You've not been reading this thread have you?

Surly the correct thing to do is not ban the car but make infrastructure good enough that the car is obsolete?









then ban the car

Which I think is the idea. Hth

 

[WouldBe]

We start with big cities and work outwards. In cities it's easy in practical terms (although more difficult politically) and proven. In rural areas it is less easy but in opinion not impossible. But like I say you start in cities which is where the majority of people now live. You provide good public transport so that people can get to places easily without their own transport. You provide more facilities locally, like shops that are in walking distance.

I'd like to see someone pick up a couple of chipboard flooring sheets and take it home by bus or tube.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Seriously, go and tell that to someone who can't drive or can't afford to.

It's freedom for those fortunate enough to have it as an option.

Tax city dwellers punitively for the extra pollution they cause and use the funds to supply private vehicles for those who don’t live in cities.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I'd like to see someone pick up a couple of chipboard flooring sheets and take it home by bus or tube.

Or even a tin of paint.

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

You've not been reading this thread have you?

Which I think is the idea. Hth

I'll think you will find that i posed a question. One that nobody answered.
Why should i think they support my position when they have not actually said that they do?

hth

 

[teuchter]

I'd like to see someone pick up a couple of chipboard flooring sheets and take it home by bus or tube.

As expected, this thread generates the usual parade of idiot objections.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

As expected, this thread generates the usual parade of idiot objections.

Only idiotic if you are wealthy enough to employ tradespeople to undertake your menial tasks, try getting some empathy man.

 

[WouldBe]

As expected, this thread generates the usual parade of idiot objections.

People do DIY. You need to get hold of the materials somehow. Most people who do DIY do it because they can't afford to pay someone to come in and do it so may find it prohibitive to pay the stupid delivery charges most DIY stores charge.

 

[two sheds]

I'll think you will find that i posed a question. One that nobody answered.
Why should i think they support my position when they have not actually said that they do?

hth

See posts #2, 6, 8, 11 and 14 - all giving partial solutions towards building the infrastructure.

 

[two sheds]

As expected, this thread generates the usual parade of idiot objections.

Nope, carrying paint or chipboard is a valid need. "Building the infrastructure" means taking such things into account. Minibuses need storage space for things like that. Parents need to take childrens' prams and things with them. All needs discussing.