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Energy Prices: Don't Pay Campaign

I know full well why they are staying anonymous from their point of view it makes sense but don't you think people who are being asked to take this action might be a little concerned that the organisers aren't willing to stick their heads above the parapet?
I bet if it works they will be quite happy to claim credit but if it fails and there are people on the news complaining about how this has left them in debt/in danger of losing their homes do you think they will come forward or just fade into the background?
MickQ, there are going to be plenty of us not paying. Not out of some ideological position though...but because we quite literally cannot pay. I guess you are not seeing yourself in that position...and in truth, neither am I cos I have a prepayment meter. So it will probably be dinners going astray in my case. So, you know...solidarity. That's why I will be shoving leaflets through doors...and hoping my better off neighbours, in a similar act of solidarity, decide to hang onto their cash for a few extra weeks. This is what community action looks like. An easy way of supporting those of us who have no fucking choice. It is about strength of numbers, a desperate loyalty, organised action on behalf of those who are the poorest and most vulnerable. I get why people are cynical about the possibility of any sort of change, thinking about the utter feebleness of our parliamentary representatives (fuck them) but FFS, just being so dismissive is kinda weaselly.

Personally, I don't actually give the smallest fuck who is organising this - I am bloody glad for any chance whatsoever to register my rage and disgust as a small cog in a much bigger machine because we are not going to make a single iota of difference whining on the internet about the misguided idea of standing together and facing down injustice.
 
The fact that these people claim they want to remain anonymous for fear of "reprisals" does tend to undermine their message. Would be revolutionaries who aren't prepared to stand up and be counted are somewhat dubious.
I can think of so many flaws in this plan

Each person taking part has NO IDEA just how many others are so they are taking the same risk as if they decided to do it alone. An awful lot of people who might sign up now in the heat of the moment thinking 'we have got to do something' will have had pleny of time to realise that doing something is not without risk.

Obviously the energy companies will struggle to penalise 1m people compared to 10 thousand but they can still do it, it will just take longer and during that time people will either run up bigger and bigger debts or just give up and still have to pay the debt off. It won't just get cancelled no matter what.

This action will stay on people's credit ratings for a very long time which will effect their ability to get loans to buy other stuff including a mortgage, it will particularly hit renters hard if they have to move since not many landlords are going to be keen on a new tenant with a record of refusing to pay their bills.

And of course how will taking action against the energy companies (privately owned commercial interests) put pressure on the Govt which is the only body which could actually do something? The energy companies can scream a lot louder and will get listened to a lot more than private citizens. But the Govt doesn't have to pay subsidies it could equally change the law making it easier to put in a smart meter.

Fuel boycotts I'm equally dubious about, I'm sure that people are cutting back on what they consider non-essential driving anyway, I certainly have and I am 'relatively' well-off compared to many people. There has been a massive surge in drive offs from petrol stations of late for obvious reasons.

No, it doesn't undermine 'the message'. For a start, it's not about any message, it's about applying collective financial (and maybe some social) pressure to companies to drop prices. Nobody organising the campaign needs to 'stand up and be counted' by being named, as had been said that could fuck this up even before it gets going with newspaper exposes, legal action, etc. I am willing to bet that they'll be doing the campaign of non-payment themselves, that's all that is needed. I also think your 'criticism' on this front is just the flip side of what people say when people are named in that it's, "Oh look at their egos, it's all about them" or similar.

People do have an idea of how many people are talking part, there's a goal of 1 million, if that's not reached it doesn't happen. And when you sign up you can be put in touch with people in your postcode to do this together. So it's partly going to result in building local contacts of networks of mutual aid and support for this project, as well as also finding people who might be on the same page as you materially and politically for the longer term. That's important.

You're mistaken if you think energy companies are likely to take 1 million people through the courts, especially as if it got to that point they'd be protests at the courts, demos, etc. It would be one of the biggest social movements for decades and I am willing to bet if it got to that it would catalyze loads of other stuff in a similar way and might just spiral into something pretty important.

All the credit rating and mortgage stuff you mention, meh it's not worthy of any time beyond saying political action comes with some risk often. People know this and can decide as adults if they want to take that, and the risk you mention is very low level and I'd expect not to really be a problem for many/any people.

The pressure on the government thing is again some mealy mouthed nit-picking. If this was targeted at the government you'd be saying 'Oh but why not the companies, they're the ones you pay money to?' The reality is it's much harder to 'target the government' whereas there's a clear easily identifiable line between us and the energy companies: they send us demands for cash and we have to send them that cash. And also of course this is targeting both really, political pressure will mount on the government through this, they might well be forced to act, and even if they act on the side of the companies it shows people what side they stand on.

Your points might be well-meaning but they're not really political (or even practical) criticisms, they're just radio talk show cynical middle aged man griping. While of course not perfect, it's a pretty good go at something that I think has potential in what are fucking hard times (with worse coming) for a load of people. But all ears if you have better plans for other projects.
 
MickQ, there are going to be plenty of us not paying. Not out of some ideological position though...but because we quite literally cannot pay. I guess you are not seeing yourself in that position...and in truth, neither am I cos I have a prepayment meter. So it will probably be dinners going astray in my case. So, you know...solidarity. That's why I will be shoving leaflets through doors...and hoping my better off neighbours, in a similar act of solidarity, decide to hang onto their cash for a few extra weeks. This is what community action looks like. An easy way of supporting those of us who have no fucking choice. It is about strength of numbers, a desperate loyalty, organised action on behalf of those who are the poorest and most vulnerable. I get why people are cynical about the possibility of any sort of change, thinking about the utter feebleness of our parliamentary representatives (fuck them) but FFS, just being so dismissive is kinda weaselly.

Personally, I don't actually give the smallest fuck who is organising this - I am bloody glad for any chance whatsoever to register my rage and disgust as a small cog in a much bigger machine because we are not going to make a single iota of difference whining on the internet about the misguided idea of standing together and facing down injustice.
Good Luck I genuinely wish you success
 
No, it doesn't undermine 'the message'. For a start, it's not about any message, it's about applying collective financial (and maybe some social) pressure to companies to drop prices. Nobody organising the campaign needs to 'stand up and be counted' by being named, as had been said that could fuck this up even before it gets going with newspaper exposes, legal action, etc. I am willing to bet that they'll be doing the campaign of non-payment themselves, that's all that is needed. I also think your 'criticism' on this front is just the flip side of what people say when people are named in that it's, "Oh look at their egos, it's all about them" or similar.

People do have an idea of how many people are talking part, there's a goal of 1 million, if that's not reached it doesn't happen. And when you sign up you can be put in touch with people in your postcode to do this together. So it's partly going to result in building local contacts of networks of mutual aid and support for this project, as well as also finding people who might be on the same page as you materially and politically for the longer term. That's important.

You're mistaken if you think energy companies are likely to take 1 million people through the courts, especially as if it got to that point they'd be protests at the courts, demos, etc. It would be one of the biggest social movements for decades and I am willing to bet if it got to that it would catalyze loads of other stuff in a similar way and might just spiral into something pretty important.

All the credit rating and mortgage stuff you mention, meh it's not worthy of any time beyond saying political action comes with some risk often. People know this and can decide as adults if they want to take that, and the risk you mention is very low level and I'd expect not to really be a problem for many/any people.

The pressure on the government thing is again some mealy mouthed nit-picking. If this was targeted at the government you'd be saying 'Oh but why not the companies, they're the ones you pay money to?' The reality is it's much harder to 'target the government' whereas there's a clear easily identifiable line between us and the energy companies: they send us demands for cash and we have to send them that cash. And also of course this is targeting both really, political pressure will mount on the government through this, they might well be forced to act, and even if they act on the side of the companies it shows people what side they stand on.

Your points might be well-meaning but they're not really political (or even practical) criticisms, they're just radio talk show cynical middle aged man griping. While of course not perfect, it's a pretty good go at something that I think has potential in what are fucking hard times (with worse coming) for a load of people. But all ears if you have better plans for other projects.
That is an excellent and well thought out response that is one of the things I love about this place
 
I hope this works and I’m not surprised that in a social system that has built itself around consumer-capitalism, the only viable response people see as available is a consumerist one. No criticism from me on the action. I’m interested to see its efficacy, though, because capital has built a clever series of walls between the end-consumer and the ownership of the resource.

The companies from whom the payment will be withheld are not those who own the energy production or even the organisation and delivery mechanisms of the energy. They are just service providers who arrange the administrative details of the delivery mechanisms. That’s why so many of them went bust recently — like all service providers, they operate on the knife-edge of not really owning anything of value, just their customer book. They don’t actually have the ability to affect prices that much, because they have to buy the energy wholesale at market rates. They can manage the process by arranging forward contracts and so on but eventually, they have to just pay the cost the actual energy producers are demanding. So when payment is withheld from these companies, a few more will probably therefore go to the wall. What I’m wondering is what happens after that?

I suppose the aim is that the government will have to intervene at some point. As the administrative system (in the form of the energy companies) starts to crumble, the government will have to step in to fill the void. At that point, they may feel the need to intervene in the pricing. That’s the hope, anyway.
 
You didn't you made your point very well. We will see which of us is correct come Oct. For what it is worth I would sooner it is you than me.

TBH if you'd been going on about how amazing and brilliant it was, I'd probably have been a bit more hang on what about XYZ as problems. Anyway, betting on something like this failing is a safe bet unfortunately though, as kabbes said there's a whole load of barriers to stuff like this 'working' built into the system. Try again. Fail again. Fail better. Etc.
 
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One thing worth remembering is if you cancel your monthly DDs, most, if not all, companies will put you on higher tariffs, I know from my current games with OVO that it would increase my gas & electric from around £1500 to £1600+. However, I guess they have to give notice, OVO gives you 10 days to set-up a new DD.

Long story, short, I have been well over-charged, and they continue to over estimate my usage despite having meter readings, it's with the ombudsman and due to be resolved by 21st. They think I am over £300 in debit, whereas I am actually around £700 in credit.

In June they put my DD up from £125 to £185, so I cancelled it & got given a deadline to set-up a new one, which I did for £125. After that payment was made, I get notice they are putting it up to £189, as soon as they did that, I cancelled it again, then set up a new one, but this time for only £1, which is due to go out on the 15th. After which I expect to hear they are putting it up again, so the game will continue.

So, the tip is, after cancelling the DD, set-up a new one for a silly amount, or if their system doesn't allow that, just cancel it the day before it's due go out, get another 10 notice period, rinse & repeat.
 
Come October a lot of people may well have built up some kind of credit with the energy companies. This will give customers some wiggle room and make life more tricky for the companies. If a customer is in credit then they can't be taken to court at all, yet the cash flow which the companies rely on will be reduced. The message will be received loud and clear, the pressure on the government increased.
 
So, the tip is, after cancelling the DD, set-up a new one for a silly amount, or if their system doesn't allow that, just cancel it the day before it's due go out, get another 10 notice period, rinse & repeat.
The amount of the direct debit is, by its very nature, in the control of the creditor. If you’re setting up the amount, that’s a standing order.
 
Most only allow it within a range, or require approval after you’ve submitted the amount. Apparently not cupid_stunt’s though.
 
I'd been feeling a bit ambivalent about it, but am now considerably more on board after reading the discussion on this thread. (For what it's worth, which is not much since I'm one of the few people lucky enough to have bills included in my rent, and my rent's going up but I don't think it'll manage to go up as fast as energy bills!)
 
I'd been feeling a bit ambivalent about it, but am now considerably more on board after reading the discussion on this thread. (For what it's worth, which is not much since I'm one of the few people lucky enough to have bills included in my rent, and my rent's going up but I don't think it'll manage to go up as fast as energy bills!)

All this stuff is difficult isn't it? Like it has to work, then it has to generalize and escalate beyond what it was intended to do. Both are unlikely given the world we live in, both happening one after the other is very unlikely. (It also needs other stuff to happen alongside it...) But still, it's good to stay open to possibilities...
 
Long story, short, I have been well over-charged, and they continue to over estimate my usage despite having meter readings, it's with the ombudsman and due to be resolved by 21st. They think I am over £300 in debit, whereas I am actually around £700 in credit.

In June they put my DD up from £125 to £185, so I cancelled it & got given a deadline to set-up a new one, which I did for £125. After that payment was made, I get notice they are putting it up to £189, as soon as they did that, I cancelled it again, then set up a new one, but this time for only £1, which is due to go out on the 15th. After which I expect to hear they are putting it up again, so the game will continue.

So, the tip is, after cancelling the DD, set-up a new one for a silly amount, or if their system doesn't allow that, just cancel it the day before it's due go out, get another 10 notice period, rinse & repeat.

I can't alter FIL's DD with SSE/OVO, so it is getting cancelled shortly and they can fecking shove it if they think there will be a new one. I too am about to contact the ombudsman cos SSE have overetimated every feffing bill for the last 11 yrs despite readings being given regularly. I'm sick of them
 
I can't alter FIL's DD with SSE/OVO, so it is getting cancelled shortly and they can fecking shove it if they think there will be a new one. I too am about to contact the ombudsman cos SSE have overetimated every feffing bill for the last 11 yrs despite readings being given regularly. I'm sick of them

For me, the SSE's over estimating only started after OVO took over in Jan. 2020, 11 years is bloody nuts.

I've just won my ombudsman case against OVO, it was easy enough to deal with, just takes time as they are so busy.
 
They have an organising guide up now:

Look to be using telegram as their main channel:

Also have a map of where people are pledging:

Zoom meeting on July 28:

Also asking people to fill in this survey:
 
Martin Lewis was talking about this


Good. He reaches a lot of people.

"We need the government to get a handle on that, because once it starts becoming socially acceptable not to pay energy bills, people will stop paying energy bills and you’re not going to cut everyone off.”
 
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