Electric cars

[kabbes]

There’s a time of research about the risks of context-specific controlled versus dedicated buttons in cars. Eg

Google Scholar

scholar.google.com

I can’t claim to be up to date with it all but I do know that the baseline is that touchscreen is massively more dangerous than dedicated physical buttons. The system Bahnoff describes sounds like the designers there are trying to address a lot of the key risks, though.

You can do pretty much everything with voice commands in the iX (and the X5 we had before it) so the buttons/knobs/screens are mostly irrelevant.

Voice activated is even more dangerous than touchscreen at current technology levels, based on what I was reading about six months ago. It’s to do with the problem of “not good enough” technology. Unless the ability to speak to the machine is entirely natural, your brain gets massively distracted trying to identify the exact correct words in the exact correct order to achieve the thing you want to do. That’s very unnatural and requires a lot of cognitive processing power.

 

[dessiato]

I am very interested in a Golf GTE but the service at the VW dealership is so poor that I'm not sure I'll get one. The other thing is that spending 45k+ on a car with a life of only 8 years/100k miles seems ridiculous compared to modern ICE. I want to go green, but I'm not convinced it's a solution for me.

 

[Silas Loom]

I don’t think that the guarantee attached to the battery equates to the life of the car.

 

[Looby]

I’ve just started looking as the plan is to lease an electric car on salary sacrifice. So I can either match my current PCP payment and get something really lovely or save us quite a bit a month.

If you have electric cars now, how did you buy the charging point? I know Skoda have a deal at the moment that they’ll provide it with the car but I won’t be buying directly.
I’ll check if the lease company have an offer and I already know I can get the grant for part of the cost because I rent.

Has anyone done interest free credit for the charger?

 

[Brainaddict]

I drove an MG4 the other day (hire car). It was a lovely drive and seems a bargain compared to many of the electric cars around. Apparently it's a Chinese manufacturer who bought the MG brand and all the reviews of it seem excellent.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I’ve just started looking as the plan is to lease an electric car on salary sacrifice. So I can either match my current PCP payment and get something really lovely or save us quite a bit a month.

If you have electric cars now, how did you buy the charging point? I know Skoda have a deal at the moment that they’ll provide it with the car but I won’t be buying directly.
I’ll check if the lease company have an offer and I already know I can get the grant for part of the cost because I rent.

Has anyone done interest free credit for the charger?

Our Podpoint charger cost £1000 inc. VAT - The car is a company car so the company paid for the charger upfront.

There's a guy round the corner has a Tesla and no home charger, at a party recently we were talking about it, (wild, that's what parties are like for us these days!), he charges exclusively at the fast chargers/Tesla superchargers, the cost of doing that is pretty much exactly the same as filling up a petrol car. The unit you fill up with is kilowatt hours (kWh), the fast chargers in car parks etc. are between 60 and 90p per kWh, the slow chargers (Podpoint types in supermarkets etc.) are around 40p per kWh. Our home charger during the day is 37p per kWh, but by switching to Octopus, getting a smart meter (no costs involved in that) we get 5 hours during the night at 6p per kWh, which is very reasonable and set the system up so it starts charging at midnight and stops at 5am every night, so long as its plugged in. Means we generally have a fully charged car all the time, should we have run the battery right down those 5 hours will not fill it up, not an issue if no long drives planned for a few days, over then next couple of nights it catches up, but if have a longer drive lined up we override the system to make it charge up to whatever level we like and suck up the extra cost.

None of this helps with your question of how to fund the charger, I believe rental properties can get some kind of government grant (owned ones used to, not any longer though).

 

[DownwardDog]

We got a BMW Wallbox "free" when we bought the car but never used it because we already had the Ctek Chargestorm illegally installed by me on a split meter tail.

Home chargers are very useful but can't do direct DC charging so you're losing ~5% of the energy through thermal losses in AC to DC conversion.

 

[Looby]

Our Podpoint charger cost £1000 inc. VAT - The car is a company car so the company paid for the charger upfront.

There's a guy round the corner has a Tesla and no home charger, at a party recently we were talking about it, (wild, that's what parties are like for us these days!), he charges exclusively at the fast chargers/Tesla superchargers, the cost of doing that is pretty much exactly the same as filling up a petrol car. The unit you fill up with is kilowatt hours (kWh), the fast chargers in car parks etc. are between 60 and 90p per kWh, the slow chargers (Podpoint types in supermarkets etc.) are around 40p per kWh. Our home charger during the day is 37p per kWh, but by switching to Octopus, getting a smart meter (no costs involved in that) we get 5 hours during the night at 6p per kWh, which is very reasonable and set the system up so it starts charging at midnight and stops at 5am every night, so long as its plugged in. Means we generally have a fully charged car all the time, should we have run the battery right down those 5 hours will not fill it up, not an issue if no long drives planned for a few days, over then next couple of nights it catches up, but if have a longer drive lined up we override the system to make it charge up to whatever level we like and suck up the extra cost.

None of this helps with your question of how to fund the charger, I believe rental properties can get some kind of government grant (owned ones used to, not any longer though).

Yeah we can get the grant but it’s capped at £375 I think so not nearly enough to make it affordable up front.
I’m sure we’ll find a solution but it would be a shame if that cost is stopping people being able to switch to electric.

I definitely do need a home charger. I’m not nearly organised enough to charge as and when I need and there’s no charging at work.

 

[Elpenor]

I feel the need to mention the usual things about salary sacrifice vehicles, having administered them before.

Should you leave your job before the term, you’re liable to early repayment charges (ours was 3x monthly amount) and these are taken net from your pay as opposed to via salary sacrifice. As with PCP if you exceed the mileage or damage the vehicle there are charges too.

 

[Looby]

I feel the need to mention the usual things about salary sacrifice vehicles, having administered them before.

Should you leave your job before the term, you’re liable to early repayment charges (ours was 3x monthly amount) and these are taken net from your pay as opposed to via salary sacrifice. As with PCP if you exceed the mileage or damage the vehicle there are charges too.

Thanks, this is something I hadn’t considered, I assumed I could hand it back and skip away.

No plans to leave my job but not sure I want to commit to 4 years just because of the car.

 

[gosub]

Been seeing stuff on deprication rate on EVs being a lot worse than internal combustion also been hearing insurance companies telling repo yards they need to park these things 2m away from each other...

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Been seeing stuff on deprication rate on EVs being a lot worse than internal combustion also been hearing insurance companies telling repo yards they need to park these things 2m away from each other...

I think the depreciation on them will be massive, especially if significantly longer range models come out, which is why for the first time ever I have leased a car, will give it back after 4 years. If by that time you get genuine range of 600 miles who on earth is going to pay >£40k for a a four year old model with a real world range of ~150? If it is worth less than £40k after that time I win and the lease company loses.

 

[Silas Loom]

I wish I had leased now, but that’s hindsight. It’s still a reasonable rule of thumb that if one should buy outright if the cash is at hand, and that all other finance options work to someone else’s advantage. Recent EVs are an outlier exception.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I wish I had leased now, but that’s hindsight. It’s still a reasonable rule of thumb that if one should buy outright if the cash is at hand, and that all other finance options work to someone else’s advantage. Recent EVs are an outlier exception.

Have never done it before, nor ever borrowed money to buy a car, always saved and bought outright (too scared of owing money on a pile of shit that's gone bang). But with EV's right now leasing through a company is a comparative bargain, coupled with the possibility that the value will drop like a stone made us take the plunge.

 

[Silas Loom]

Have never done it before, nor ever borrowed money to buy a car, always saved and bought outright (too scared of owning money on a pile of shit that's gone bang). But with EV's right now leasing through a company is a comparative bargain, couple with the possibility that the value will drop like a stone made us take the plunge.

And you can claim half the VAT back on a lease plan, which you can’t with direct purchase. Really, I should have acknowledged that this factor made all the difference, but I wanted some of the options that didn’t come on lease models.

I got the car two days before lockdown, then haven’t been able to drive since 2021, so it worked out pretty poorly. Mrs Loom, who does all the driving now, had no interest in the HUD and her gripe has always been that I refused to spring for prettier hubcaps.

 

[Leafster]

Another one-off factor was that Tesla dropped its prices for new models from between £5k and £8k in the middle of last year. It wiped a significant chunk off the resale value of their second hand models. It also had a knock-on effect for other manufacturers' S/H models.

 

[Silas Loom]

Volvo has pulled out of Polestar, Jaguar has canned the I Pace (another depreciation factor). It does look as if EVs will ultimately be left to the Chinese and Shit Tony Stark.

 

[DownwardDog]

Three of the top ten slowest depreciating cars in the UK (Taycan, ID Buzz and MG EV4) are BEV. None of the top ten fastest depreciating cars are BEV.

It's not difficult to do your homework and avoid a depreciation monster.

 

[Looby]

Been seeing stuff on deprication rate on EVs being a lot worse than internal combustion also been hearing insurance companies telling repo yards they need to park these things 2m away from each other...

There’s no way I’d be buying one outright or on finance. I’d do PCP at a push but hopefully will be leasing. I’ve got PCP at the moment on my hybrid.

 

[Leafster]

Volvo has pulled out of Polestar

Both Volvo and Polestar are owned by Geely. I think it's more a restructuring measure than anything else. It enables them to distance the Volvo and Polestar brands more clearly.

 

[Silas Loom]

Three of the top ten slowest depreciating cars in the UK (Taycan, ID Buzz and MG EV4) are BEV. None of the top ten fastest depreciating cars are BEV.

It's not difficult to do your homework and avoid a depreciation monster.

Where’s the data for that? Want to look mine up.

 

[Looby]

I’ve been looking at:
Volvo
Hyundai
Nissan
Skoda
and possibly Vauxhall if I wait as they’re bringing back the Frontera as an EV but there’s zero info atm.
ETA Toyota.
All I’ve looked at that I can afford have low boots which is annoying.
Ruled out Honda and Kia because they don’t have what I want and I won’t touch Peugeot.

Thoughts on brands (rather than specific models)?

 

[Leafster]

I’ve been looking at:
Volvo
Hyundai
Nissan
Skoda
and possibly Vauxhall if I wait as they’re bringing back the Frontera as an EV but there’s zero info atm.
Ruled out Honda and Kia because they don’t have what I want and I won’t touch Peugeot.

Thoughts on brands (rather than specific models)?

I'd avoid any Vauxhall EV. They are weirdly over-priced for what they are and suffer higher depreciation because of it. The Peugeots are better value for money and are similar 'underneath' as they're both part of the Stellantis group.

 

[Looby]

I'd avoid any Vauxhall EV. They are weirdly over-priced for what they are and suffer higher depreciation because of it. The Peugeots are better value for money and are similar 'underneath' as they're both part of the Stellantis group.

I had a Peugeot a couple of cars ago and am sworn off for life!
The appeal of the new Vauxhall is the possible size of the boot which is the main criteria for me.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Fucking hell, don't know much about motorway.co.uk, but just did an online valuation on our car which we got at the end of June last year...




At the end of June 2027, if it is worth less than £40k I win.

Spoiler: Price when new with the options we choose

 

[Silas Loom]

Fucking hell, don't know much about motorway.co.uk, but just did an online valuation on our car which we got at the end of June last year...

View attachment 410968


At the end of June 2027, if it is worth less than £40k I win.

Spoiler: Price when new with the options we choose

View attachment 410970

Think you’d need a Chinese invasion of Taiwan and a global microchip famine , coupled with Weimaresque inflation in the UK, to be anything other than safe there.

 

[T & P]

Perhaps it's just me, but I have never understood the urge to buy a car that might be worth slightly more a few years down the road vs buying a car you really like. Cars lose money over time. Just get what you want ffs, rather than be stuck with something that doesn't do it much for you so five years later you might have lost 'only' 25k instead of 32k. Either one can afford forking many tens of thousands on a car that's going to lose most of its value, or cannot. If one can, then fuck not buying the one you really like for the sake of getting an extra 10% or 20% on the resale price years later.

 

[danny la rouge]

Perhaps it's just me, but I have never understood the urge to buy a car that might be worth slightly more a few years down the road vs buying a car you really like. Cars lose money over time. Just get what you want ffs, rather than be stuck with something that doesn't do it much for you so five years later you might have lost 'only' 25k instead of 32k. Either one can afford forking many tens of thousands on a car that's going to lose most of its value, or cannot. If one can, then fuck not buying the one you really like for the sake of getting an extra 10% or 20% on the resale price years later.

I had no idea that was a consideration for some people! I’ve never bought a car that cost as much as 25k, never mind one that depreciated by 25k!

 

[Gromit]

Perhaps it's just me, but I have never understood the urge to buy a car that might be worth slightly more a few years down the road vs buying a car you really like. Cars lose money over time. Just get what you want ffs, rather than be stuck with something that doesn't do it much for you so five years later you might have lost 'only' 25k instead of 32k. Either one can afford forking many tens of thousands on a car that's going to lose most of its value, or cannot. If one can, then fuck not buying the one you really like for the sake of getting an extra 10% or 20% on the resale price years later.

Porsche Boxsters were popular fleet cars at one stage because of low depreciation.

If you had the car for 3 years and sold it the cost of the car per year to the company wasn't what they paid for it but the depreciation divided by 3.

Sound financial sense if that amount is less than the total cost of the car divided by the total life of the car plus maintenance.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Perhaps it's just me, but I have never understood the urge to buy a car that might be worth slightly more a few years down the road vs buying a car you really like. Cars lose money over time. Just get what you want ffs, rather than be stuck with something that doesn't do it much for you so five years later you might have lost 'only' 25k instead of 32k. Either one can afford forking many tens of thousands on a car that's going to lose most of its value, or cannot. If one can, then fuck not buying the one you really like for the sake of getting an extra 10% or 20% on the resale price years later.

I would imagine that if you were in the market for a £50K motor that you'd wish to update after say, 4 years, you'd hope to be able to sell it for an amount that allowed you to buy another £50k motor with you paying what the first one had depreciated, therefore the less a car depreciates, the lower the cost of owing the first car.

This was never an issue for me, always just ran every motor I ever had in to the ground.