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Egypt anti-government protests grow

butchersapron said:
Yep, at least three dead now from usually reliable reporters.
Click to expand...

Yes it's on Reuters who usually double check from foreign sources.

The army will have put the most army-loyal anti-Brotherhood units out there in Cairo.
It's gone absurd now apparently according to twitter there are shots from above (army) and below (Brotherhood).

The Libya situation has meant lots of weapons available as according to this

http://www.algemeiner.com/2013/07/04/egypt-military-fears-10000-unaccounted-for-weapons-since-2011

Warrants out for the top set of Brotherhood officials
http://english.ahram.org.eg/News/75767.aspx
 
There are some problems for the army in Sinai, the tribal leaders there are heavily armed and yesterday gave until the end of tonight for the army to return Morsi to office or face consequences.
 
I think that article posted earlier about the Syria rally at the Cairo Indoor Stadium was the tipping point for the army they wanted to cut off the head of the anti-Morsi protests which they knew/sensed would be massive - army has interests in many sectors of the economy and is active in seeing the public all the time with the conscription demands.

You had all Sunni cast on the stage: a series of Sunni clerics call Shiites infidels worthy of hell, Morsi just sit there patiently saying nothing, then makes his speech calling for full support to the Islamist insurgency in Syria not the Kurds or anyone else. Thousands of Islamists come in black and green banners, some with mock weapons, some with real ones, just let in by Brotherhood loyal police.
A few days later the 4 Shiite prominent figures in a mixed village in Giza are lynched and their burnt bodies paraded in the streets, blackened limbs held aloft in the air. Nothing much happens except a promise to find the culprits.

With these deaths in crossfire, all further protest actions by whoever - working class or Brotherhood - will be declared illegitimate.
 
http://www.hrw.org/news/2013/07/05/egypt-deadly-clashes-cairo-university

Very mixed patchy picture in Cairo University

Both pro- and anti-Morsy witnesses said they heard gunfire beginning at about 6 p.m. Residents who participated in the clashes acknowledged they armed themselves with stones, rocks, and knives, and Morsy supporters acknowledged that some of them carried guns. Morsy supporters said they came under gunfire from people in buildings on the northern side of Ahmed Zewail street, before reaching Tharwat Bridge, and residents of the area said that gunmen on the roof of a university building on the south side of the street as well as Morsy supporters fired on them. Morsy supporters acknowledged detaining, questioning, and severely beating some men they identified as paid “thugs” who had attacked the march on Ahmed Zewail street.

Exchanges of gunfire intensified at around 10 or 10:30 p.m., witnesses said. Human Rights Watch observed repeated bursts of automatic fire, in addition to other gunfire, at around 11:40 p.m., near the intersection of Cairo University Road and Ahmed Zewail Street. An emergency intake doctor at Um al-Masriyeen hospital in Giza told Human Rights Watch that the majority of gunshot victims who arrived there were injured in the upper body. In cases in which the victims had been shot with live ammunition, the angle of the wound indicated that the shooting had come from above – the tops or upper stories of buildings, the doctor said.

Residents who opposed the pro-Morsy demonstration told Human Rights Watch that they phoned repeatedly for police assistance, but that security forces only arrived after midnight. Videos taken by local journalists that Human Rights Watch viewed show armored vehicles in the area at nighttime, but a resident interviewed in one of the videos said she was not aware of a stabilizing police presence until the following morning at 8 a.m. Residents said that Morsy supporters shot a police officer in the face. One Morsy supporter said he saw members of the Central Security Forces arrive and begin firing automatic weapons at around 11:30 p.m., killing a Morsy supporter.
 
BObP3XUCcAACsXW.jpg:large
 
Defended by army units.

Have to say the chant Islamiya means Muslim unlikely to persuade anti-Morsi people to come out against the new president and army.



BObSuayCAAAtaRu.jpg:large


If they do manage to return Morsi by this kind of pressure, the anti-Morsi crowds will come back.
 
Some of the base think it is all a Coptic conspiracy - that the anti-Morsi crowds weren't very big, that they could have faced them down no probs if the police had let them, meaning the army would never have got the chance.
Comment from Dutch-Egyptian academic

While many Egyptians would (& will) die for either side, the Brotherhood & military wouldn't hesitate for one second to make a deal.

https://twitter.com/saramsalem/status/353203810019196929

I feel like we've rewound the clock 15 years. Last night the Turkish state TRT news programme played a chant with words by Seyyid Qutb promising revenge.
The hired pen liberals have been on Turkish TV tonight asking if the left is so anti-coup why it didn't join religious organised pro-Mursi rallies today after Friday prayers.
 
Sinai is the one major region of resistance to the new regime:

"The Egyptian flag and North #Sinai flag were removed from the governorate headquarter and #Morsi's photo was put instead"
 
butchersapron said:
I cannot think what to say to that. I really can't.
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Few liberals outside Europe take the Turkish lot serious because they are white - a mistake as with Chechnya.
It's translated as:

Kardeşim küfrün ordularını kökten sileceksin
Ve bununla yeryüzünde bir fecr doğacak
Sen ruhunu fecrin doğuşuna teslim et
O zaman fecrin bizi uzaktan karşıladığını göreceksin

My brother you've got to wipe out the armies of kafir from their roots
And with this a new ray of dawn emerge
You, give yourself up to the dawn and
then you'll see a dawn salute from the distance
 
Everyone going crazy with conspiracies some think Army is standing back to let protestors feel some heat from the Brotherhood brothers so that they see the future army clampdown as necessary.
Some think the Brotherhood is spreading lies that it is in negotiations with army to sap people's adherence to the army.
Some think the Brotherhood want to prove themselves still able to attack crowds
 
I'm sceptical of bits of this account esp about the police , which seems very divided it was divided in Pakistan in 1977 too.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/05/morsi-final-days-egypt-president


Why didn't the Brotherhood announce this publicly?

A Brotherhood spokesman, Murad Ali, said the military had already decided that Morsi had to go, and Sisi would not entertain any of the concessions that the president was prepared to make.
"We were naive ... We didn't imagine betrayal would go this far," Ali said.
"It was like, 'either we put you in jail, or you come out and announce you are resigning,'" Ali added.
Brotherhood officials said they saw the end coming.
"We knew it was over on 23 June. Western ambassadors told us that," said another Brotherhood spokesman. US ambassador Anne Patterson was one of the envoys, he added.

This Murad Ali why didn't he make all this known so that the crowds would try and get together if the seniors couldn't?



Morsi searched for allies in the army, ordering two top aides – Asaad el-Sheikh and Rifaah el-Tahtawy – to establish contact with potentially sympathetic officers in the 2nd Field Army based in Port Said and Ismailia on the Suez Canal. The objective was to find a bargaining chip to use with Sisi, security officials with firsthand knowledge of the contacts said.

There were no signs that Morsi's overtures had any effect, but Sisi, on learning of the contacts, took no chances. He issued directives to all unit commanders not to engage in any contacts with the presidential palace and, as a precaution, dispatched elite troops to units whose commanders had been contacted by Morsi's aides.

This bit is intriguing - using the Islamist-minded Sinai army against the rest of the army.

According to the usually authoritative newspaper Al-Ahram, Morsi was offered safe passage to Turkey, Libya or elsewhere, but he declined. He also was offered immunity from prosecution if he voluntarily stepped down. Morsi gave a speech late on Tuesday in which he vowed to stay in power and urged supporters to fight to protect his legitimacy.

Morsi seems to have obviously planned something pouring the brothers out onto the streets, once the ultimatum came and went - stressing the legitimacy again and again and the 'willing to be a martyr' rhetoric - obvious signals for them.
 
J Ed said:
Not a very bright thing to say when your father is in custody!
Click to expand...

But discussions are almost certainly happening between Brotherhood and Army in some fashion. The tweets are for the brothers expressing the line of resistance, and if a deal is done in some fashion it will be 'honourable Brotherhood' saving the nation from blood.
 
Divisive Cotton said:
The clashes in Cairo seem to have quietened down now.

Ramadan starts in a few days time
Click to expand...

The official figure is 17 dead lots of people shot dead by the snipers.
It's a very odd scenario:- the Tahrir side has reinforced with sticks.
Army is around but not wanting to intervene directly after earlier using live bullets outside the Republican club, leading to 3 dead Brotherhood.
It's all very confused. Apparently random pro-Morsi actions in some Iskandariya suburb attacking cars with Tamarrod bumper stickers and smashing shops.
 
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