DWP want to monitor claimants' bank account activity

[LeytonCatLady]

DWP planning new laws to snoop on Universal Credit claimants' bank account data

Officials intend to catch more people who claim the benefit despite having more than £16,000 in savings. It's part of a drive to reduce record fraud and error in the benefit system - but one MP compared it to Orwell's 1984

www.mirror.co.uk

So basically they want access to actual deposits/transactions, not the existing powers just to be flagged by HMRC when your account balance goes "too high" (although that's bad enough). I've been worried about something like this happening after we leave the EU with its Data Protection Act. Surely they can't pass something like this? Although I know it doesn't stop them unlawfully sanctioning people...

And the tiny minority of people (1.1%?) who do commit benefit fraud won't be daft enough to keep their excess money in an accessible bank account anyway! As usual, it's picking on easy targets based on bollox Daily Mail stereotypes.

 

[farmerbarleymow]

I've been worried about something like this happening after we leave the EU with its Data Protection Act.

They can almost certainly do it now under the existing legislation if they wanted, but just want a more straightforward way to get the data with less hoops to jump through.

 

[MickiQ]

If they want access to someone's bank account information now, they have to get a warrant, that's not hard but it is a hoop to jump through. It applies to all cases of fraud UC related or not. I suspect that they want to make it a condition of you claiming UC you give implicit permission for them to look at your bank transactions as part of checking your eligibility. That would require a change in the law, currently UK law has to be compliant with RU law, after 1 Jan it doesn't (though treaty negotiations may change that) so if they want to then they can change the law to allow it.

 

[weltweit]

Benefits like UC shouldn't be means tested in the first place.

 

[NoXion]

They already have the power to investigate potentially fraudulent claims. The DWP can fuck off.

 

[Roadkill]

I've been worried about something like this happening after we leave the EU with its Data Protection Act. Surely they can't pass something like this?

Unfortunately as soon as the UK is completely out of the EU and no longer subject to GDPR there will be very little to stop a Tory government with an 80-seat majority from doing just that, and I think they will. Dominic Cummings, who seems to have a little influence on events, is on record as saying that GDPR is 'absurd,' and there's already talk of a post-Brexit UK acting as a 'data haven.' Couple that with the fact that a lot of influential and shady neoliberal thinktanks have the ear of ministers of the Britannia Unchained generation, and it doesn't look at all unlikely they'll start delving into personal data in all sorts of sinister ways, including to attack benefit claimants.

 

[WouldBe]

If you opened a 2nd bank account (pref at a different bank) could you 'hide' any surplus money in there as the dwp wouldn't know about it?

 

[Pickman's model]

If you opened a 2nd bank account (pref at a different bank) could you 'hide' any surplus money in there as the dwp wouldn't know about it?

At a diff address too

 

[Puddy_Tat]

If you opened a 2nd bank account (pref at a different bank) could you 'hide' any surplus money in there as the dwp wouldn't know about it?

my understanding is they can already talk to credit referencing agencies, so you stand a chance of being found out.

 

[Pickman's model]

Unfortunately as soon as the UK is completely out of the EU and no longer subject to GDPR there will be very little to stop a Tory government with an 80-seat majority from doing just that, and I think they will. Dominic Cummings, who seems to have a little influence on events, is on record as saying that GDPR is 'absurd,' and there's already talk of a post-Brexit UK acting as a 'data haven.' Couple that with the fact that a lot of influential and shady neoliberal thinktanks have the ear of ministers of the Britannia Unchained generation, and it doesn't look at all unlikely they'll start delving into personal data in all sorts of sinister ways, including to attack benefit claimants.

I think the EU would be very unimpressed and I can't see it ending well for hmg - dumping gdpr I mean

 

[Roadkill]

If you opened a 2nd bank account (pref at a different bank) could you 'hide' any surplus money in there as the dwp wouldn't know about it?

I think we're moving into a future in which our assumptions about what individual government agencies know, and where they can and cannot look for information, are no longer safe.

I think the EU would be very unimpressed and I can't see it ending well for hmg - dumping gdpr I mean

Massively so, and that article I linked to says it would be a financial and reputational disaster. But then they said that about Brexit too.

 

[Pickman's model]

Massively so, and that article I linked to says it would be a financial and reputational disaster. But then they said that about Brexit too.

I can't see the EU giving the city rights to do stuff with Europe if they don't abide by gdpr

 

[WouldBe]

Keep the excess cash under the bed. That won't show up on credit checks.

 

[farmerbarleymow]

I think the EU would be very unimpressed and I can't see it ending well for hmg - dumping gdpr I mean

HMG are seeking an adequacy decision to enable continued data flows from EU->UK, so radical changes would mean an end to that by default with the consequent economic impacts. So I don't think it's likely they'll make radical changes, but maybe tinker round the edges. But the GDPR gives a degree of latitude to member states to vary certain conditions of the law (derogations) and this sort of thing might be one of them anyway. I'm not a lawyer so I'm not sure.

 

[Roadkill]

I can't see the EU giving the city rights to do stuff with Europe if they don't abide by gdpr

No, neither can I. But then I can see a Trump USA pulling in the other direction, and the City seems to be looking at a rough deal anyway. Besides, agreeing to abide by GDPR and actually enforcing it aren't quite the same thing. It's probably a small example of how much is riding on next week as far as the UK is concerned. Interesting times we live in.

 

[Badgers]

I am still on UC.

DaddyBadgers sent me a couple of hundred quid a while ago. Did not want to send a cheque or pay it into my account in case 'the cunts sanctioned me' so sent in a book in a parcel.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

Keep the excess cash under the bed. That won't show up on credit checks.

when GDPR is abolished, they will be allowed to access your bed

 

[farmerbarleymow]

Besides, agreeing to abide by GDPR and actually enforcing it aren't quite the same thing.

That would be picked up pretty quickly. The actions, or lack thereof, of the UK regulator (ICO) would be studied to assess what level of enforcement was being applied. If HMG tried to change the law to neuter the ICO that would be a major red flag, and not go unnoticed in the EU.

I'm not sure what role the European Data Protection Board would have in this, but maybe some kind of role given the deep ties the UK has with neighbouring countries. It'd be interesting to see what the arrangements would be for data subjects to lodge complaints against UK-registered companies trading in the EU, and how that would work in practice through liaison with the relevant EU supervisory authority and the ICO.

I guess we won't know the details of any such arrangements until next year.

But generally, risking adequacy for some weird tory wank fetish would be incredibly stupid - not least due to the economic impacts (granted, they don't seem to give a shit about that), but that other developed countries are generally following the lead of the GDPR in enacting similar protections for personal data (US being somewhat of an anomaly). Trashing our reputation in this area (again, they've got form) would damage the chance of trade deals.

 

[Roadkill]

That would be picked up pretty quickly. The actions, or lack thereof, of the UK regulator (ICO) would be studied to assess what level of enforcement was being applied. If HMG tried to change the law to neuter the ICO that would be a major red flag, and not go unnoticed in the EU.

I'm not sure what role the European Data Protection Board would have in this, but maybe some kind of role given the deep ties the UK has with neighbouring countries. It'd be interesting to see what the arrangements would be for data subjects to lodge complaints against UK-registered companies trading in the EU, and how that would work in practice through liaison with the relevant EU supervisory authority and the ICO.

I guess we won't know the details of any such arrangements until next year.

But generally, risking adequacy for some weird tory wank fetish would be incredibly stupid - not least due to the economic impacts (granted, they don't seem to give a shit about that), but that other developed countries are generally following the lead of the GDPR in enacting similar protections for personal data (US being somewhat of an anomaly). Trashing our reputation in this area (again, they've got form) would damage the chance of trade deals.

Again, no quibble about any of that. It's the 'don't give a shit' and 'they've got form' but that bothers me.

 

[farmerbarleymow]

Again, no quibble about any of that. It's the 'don't give a shit' and 'they've got form' but that bothers me.

Very true - they're a bunch of fanatical cunts so I wouldn't put anything past them. After all, who would have thought a UK parliament would vote to let children starve.

 

[WouldBe]

when GDPR is abolished, they will be allowed to access your bed

They'd have to get past my dog first.

 

[Pickman's model]

Very true - they're a bunch of fanatical cunts so I wouldn't put anything past them. After all, who would have thought a UK parliament would vote to let children starve.

They have form if you look back to the 1840s

 

[SpookyFrank]

my understanding is they can already talk to credit referencing agencies, so you stand a chance of being found out.

Credit referencing agencies don't know fuck all. They're forever telling me I don't exist and I'm almost certain that I do.

 

[WouldBe]

Credit referencing agencies don't know fuck all. They're forever telling me I don't exist and I'm almost certain that I do.

Who said that?

 

[SpookyFrank]

Who said that?

Credit check for my current house came up blank, credit check to verify online UC claim came up blank, credit check to get a covid test by post came up blank. I am a real person, I earn money and pay bills, I manage to pass my DBS check every time; but I don't have a credit card or a phone contract and I've spent the last few years subletting (not least due to inability to pass a credit check for a proper tennancy) so there have been no bills in my name.

Oh wait, you were doing a bit weren't you? Very good, yes

 

[Sasaferrato]

If you opened a 2nd bank account (pref at a different bank) could you 'hide' any surplus money in there as the dwp wouldn't know about it?

I think that you would find out quite rapidly that is not the case.

Blanket request to all banks requesting details of accounts held by Bloggs at this address.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Credit referencing agencies don't know fuck all. They're forever telling me I don't exist and I'm almost certain that I do.

Well, if you don't exist, who the fuck is posting?

(In truth, we wonder that sometimes even when we do believe you exist. )

 

[Sasaferrato]

I'm not on UC, and not going to be. The system is an obscenity, to the extent that the then head of HMRC actually grew a pair and refused to touch it.

This level of intrusion is deeply troubling.

£16K, whereas not exactly trivial, isn't a fortune either. I really do not see why people should have to burn through savings merely to claim a benefit to which they are entitled.

Are the DWP going to meet expenses, such as a new roof, that the savings are in place for?

 

[WouldBe]

Credit check for my current house came up blank, credit check to verify online UC claim came up blank, credit check to get a covid test by post came up blank. I am a real person, I earn money and pay bills, I manage to pass my DBS check every time; but I don't have a credit card or a phone contract and I've spent the last few years subletting (not least due to inability to pass a credit check for a proper tennancy) so there have been no bills in my name.

Oh wait, you were doing a bit weren't you? Very good, yes

If you want a credit rating can you get a credit card? Only put a minimal amount on it and pay it off in full each month.

 

[SpookyFrank]

I'm not on UC, and not going to be. The system is an obscenity, to the extent that the then head of HMRC actually grew a pair and refused to touch it.

This level of intrusion is deeply troubling.

£16K, whereas not exactly trivial, isn't a fortune either. I really do not see why people should have to burn through savings merely to claim a benefit to which they are entitled.

Are the DWP going to meet expenses, such as a new roof, that the savings are in place for?

Fuck anyone saving up for a deposit on a house too.