krtek a houby
Anger is Hi-NRG
I get that. It's a negative take on the start of the journey of humankind but to me, that journey ends with a kind of elightenment at the close of the film.
Dullest Film Ever
- Thread starter Orang Utan
- Start date
I get that. It's a negative take on the start of the journey of humankind but to me, that journey ends with a kind of elightenment at the close of the film.
Reno
The In Kraut
So you don't like the idea that human consciousness comes with the potential for violence ? It may be disturbing but it's not exactly wrong is it ?
Epona
Sonic: 1 Nov 2006 - 8 Jan 2022
I think it is wrong, as an archaelogist I think it is wrong, I think a lot of what we think of as the past (especially if you are talking about very early hominids) is coloured by our perceptions of society today, and trying to make sense of what it must have been like, and projecting modern values back onto that era. Incorrectly. Most of the reason I disagree with the film is because I am an archaeologist.
krtek a houby
Anger is Hi-NRG
But violent behaviour isn't a modern value; it's in all animals & always has been, no?
Epona
Sonic: 1 Nov 2006 - 8 Jan 2022
If you think the stone age was all about bashing each other over the heads then you're very misguided.
Reno
The In Kraut
The prologue wasn't supposed to be a naturalistic portrait of all the Stone Age encompasses, it was a parable about the downside of civilisation.
krtek a houby
Anger is Hi-NRG
That's a bit disingenous
. I'm saying that violent behaviour is inherent, not just in humankind and it's predecessors but in all animals. The film deals with two groups of hominids and outbreaks of violence. It's not constant but it is present; just like it is today. But the film goes far beyond the limitations and possibilities of violence towards a spectacular jump in evolution when humankind can leave all that behind. I think.
Epona
Sonic: 1 Nov 2006 - 8 Jan 2022
That's a bit disingenous
And I think you're an idiot if you think that. At least I have some educational background in archaeology and palaeontology backing up my views. I can't really be arsed to get into this with you, because it's not that important to me to spend time arguing about it. Sorry!
Reno
The In Kraut
I'd say you are the idiot here for not understanding that films deal with themes in an allegorical way and are not necessarily supposed to be literal representation of historical facts as you personally understand them (which in any case are based on spurious claims by you)
Did you get out of the wrong side of the bed today ?
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Epona
Sonic: 1 Nov 2006 - 8 Jan 2022
Haha! All I started off saying was that I didn't like the premise of the film, it was others who wanted to argue with me about it. I haven't over-reacted, I've just stated my views and knowledge. Honestly, I have researched hominid skeletal remains, and they don't have the defensive injuries that would indicate large scale violence between different groups.
And I don't like the film, is it OK for me to not like the film? I mean we are allowed to have our own views and opinions about films, aren't we? Or is 2001 the point where we have to conform 'or else'?
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Another vote for The Deer Hunter here. I'm sure they were trying to make some kind of point with that movie but I don't know or care what it was.
Reno
The In Kraut
There was no "large scale violence" in the film, there was a single violent act.
Apart from that it is besides the point of what the film is doing, you trying to tell us that no prehistoric man ever behaved violently against another is laughable and a quick google into the behaviour of prehistoric humans makes your claims void.
Epona
Sonic: 1 Nov 2006 - 8 Jan 2022
The whole point of that single violent act though, was that in the film it was posited as the basis for all violent acts since, a starting point.
And you are trying to warp what I have said. I am not saying that no-one in the prehistoric era acted violently, but violent acts certainly seem to have been less prevalent then (judging by injury patterns on skeletons) than they are today. All I am saying, is don't try to use a past that you don't understand to explain the violence of the modern world - because you won't find an explanation there.
Reno
The In Kraut
Nobody is misunderstanding the past. I simply reject you literal interpretation that a condensed allegory about civilisation has to conform to your ideas about historical accuracy. The prologue is like a biblical parable and then it could be argued that the film goes on to shift our preception of god. If the film would be banging away at that one message about violence I'd understand your objection more, but it doesn't.
Going in cicles now, so I will leave it here.
Going in cicles now, so I will leave it here.
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Epona
Sonic: 1 Nov 2006 - 8 Jan 2022
Well maybe that's why I didn't 'get' the film, because I don't believe in any bible or god, so shifting my perception of something that I don't believe in is not going to happen.
skyscraper101
0891 50 50 50
Watched Fifty Shades Of Grey last night. That was unbelievably dull.
Reno
The In Kraut
I don't believe in the bible or in a god either, that's not the point. 2001 proposes a non-religious, scientific explanation for a creator, an alien life form whose purpose for us is not known. Many believe that the end takes us back to the start of the film, another leap in evolution. You don't have to believe in that either, you just have to be willing to engage with the idea. That's what science fiction does, it proposes speculative ideas based in science, which for some of us are enjoyable to engage with on a theoretical level.
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DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
I'll let you off this time lol
Epona
Sonic: 1 Nov 2006 - 8 Jan 2022
Yeah, I'm not willing to engage with that idea tbh, I like sci-fi and am prepared for the occasional suspension of disbelief, but it's a shit idea (IMO). Is it really that big a deal to you that I don't like the film?
Reno
The In Kraut
I thought we are on a forum to discuss ideas but don't worry, this is the post where I definitely stopped caring as you have nothing more interesting to say than "it's a shit idea"
Epona
Sonic: 1 Nov 2006 - 8 Jan 2022
Have you not been around the rest of the boards?
You're hilarious If you HAVE been around the rest of the boards, then you know this is also a place where people are able to say "nope, don't agree". Really sorry that I am unable to fall in line with your view of this film. Let's try to remember that it is just a film though
And we all are allowed to have different opinions!
Reno
The In Kraut
Have you not been around the rest of the boards?
You are more eloquent on the subject matter of cats, I give you that.
Reno
The In Kraut
In Bruges - Belgium and Colin Farrell, how could it not be dull
Epona
Sonic: 1 Nov 2006 - 8 Jan 2022
I'm eloquent on a lot of things, I find it very interesting that on a subject like films that is so open to personal interpretation, people feel the need to jump in and say "you're wrong". Obviously a lot of strong feelings here, I am very sorry that I did not enjoy or appreciate it. Live with that, it's not like anyone reads my favourite books!
Reno
The In Kraut
No, it's all about winning the arguement. Really, some people !If you HAVE been around the rest of the boards, then you know this is also a place where people are able to say "nope, don't agree". Really sorry that I am unable to fall in line with your view of this film. Let's try to remember that it is just a film though
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