Donald Trump, the road that might not lead to the White House!
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Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
I see no reason to let anyone off the hook. Yes, it's a failure of the political system to provide candidates that are acceptable to the populace. It's evidence of a political system that's been hijacked by oligarchs. It's also a failure on the part of the people too. If you don't demand better candidates, if you equate bombast with leadership, if you let candidates not only get away with fact-free rhetoric but lap it up, if you ignore what the politicians are doing except for that short period before presidential elections, then maybe you get the politicians you deserve.
J Ed
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J Ed
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...and on the other side of the GOP Open Letter on Trump from GOP National Security Leaders
That's only going to help him.
J Ed
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I agree. As is the Romney speech.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Already replied...
gosub
~#
they acknowledge that, difficult to see what else they could have done.
what happened in the last ten days? :
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
So its Trump vs the Military-Industrial Complex, then?
bimble
floofy
Your point's a good one but I think something is going on in the case of Trump which makes this question of 'the stupid vote' more interesting:
It seems he actively encourages people to see him as an ignorant man, a stupid but honest type. Ignorance as a virtue.
See how he used the words "i don't know anything about that' about 7 times in a row when avoiding the question of why he was't going to step away from the support of white supremacists the other day.
I have an aunty lives in Florida who will vote Trump and when I asked her about it she said 'well at least you can trust him he's not going to fool you with long words and he's not part of the establishment etc'. I mean maybe the appeal to the stupid / advertising your ignorance as a USP is a powerful tactic and shouldn't be ignored.
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Lord Camomile
Yipchaa!
I'm not sure about that. See the clip in the John Oliver segment above where he goes on about having a great education and having "all the best words". I think the whole "i don't know anything about that" is just him not caring if he appears stupid. He's one of those people who will simply say whatever serves him best at the time, regardless of any relation it has with fact. He rarely gets into analysis based on fact, just "that's stupid", "he's an idiot", "they're wrong", "I love this", "I'm really popular", "they're after your bread". That's all he needs, apparently.
That is a different thing. It's not affecting ignorance or stupidity, in the eyes of supporters it's being "plain spoken".
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Both posts above assume stupidity in trump voters and past *paste list here* victories and talk about how he/they related to a critical mass of stupid voters. I don't think that was killer b's point.
J Ed
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If anything Trump's rhetoric conforms to the same 'these people believe in the opposite of me because they are stupid' except in reverse. The establishment are the idiots, his supporters are the smart ones.
I wonder why that might appeal to people who are marginalised and told that they are stupid by the establishment and their media...
bimble
floofy
I think killer b's point was that it's not good enough to blame the individual voters (people like my stupid aunty in Florida), that there are much bigger reasons for the rise of charismatic leaders like Trump now and always - and I get that and agree completely.
My suggestion was just that maybe a big part of his appeal in this present moment is that he presents himself as a 'straight talkin' non-elite uneducated and therefore not complicit in the system type outsider? I wonder if this is connected with the way in which so many people are drawn to internet conspiracy theories etc.
My suggestion was just that maybe a big part of his appeal in this present moment is that he presents himself as a 'straight talkin' non-elite uneducated and therefore not complicit in the system type outsider? I wonder if this is connected with the way in which so many people are drawn to internet conspiracy theories etc.
J Ed
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He doesn't present himself as uneducated.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
His point was that they are not stupid and to treat them as such is feeding trump.
bimble
floofy
Really? "I don't know what white supremacy means etc"?
J Ed
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No, have you ever seen him speak? He can't stop talking about how much smarter he is than everyone else, it's his schtick.
bimble
floofy
What are they then: Insecure, frightened, angry?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
They are a range of things: but not stupid. If you think they are and treat them as such then...
bimble
floofy
QED, surely.
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
Angry and vengeful, they are voting for him to fuck with the system and spite the people who have shit on them all their lives which quite frankly is probably a much more rational reason to vote for Trump than voting for Hillary Clinton because you believe she is a 'progressive'.
Lord Camomile
Yipchaa!
I'm not necessarily assuming stupidity in Trump voters, was more just observing Drumpf's (that's right, I'm sticking with it
) tactics. I really haven't been paying attention beyond a few soundbites here and there, but the impression I get is that Drumpf and his supporters aren't interested in intellectual analysis, more (for lack of better phrases) 'gut feeling and common sense'. It's not that they're stupid, just it's not the way the ingest their politics.Fuck it, that barely makes sense, I'm supposed to be working...
bimble
floofy
Ok, that's much more humane than calling them stupid and surely true for the most part.
Still, she's probably not typical at all but; my Trump-voting aunty she has not been shat on, she's fine, she's financially secure and just a zionist anti-muslim anti-intellectual xenophobic loon.
Very nice lady in all other respects. her neighbours in the Florida retirement home are all similarly placed and all will vote like her far as I can tell.
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