Donald Trump, the road that might not lead to the White House!

[J Ed]

What's funny about it? He's a good campaigner.

It's humourous, funny.. ha ha funny

 

[ska invita]

On setting upa Muslim register....
Does this sound OK? Link to tweet below.

View attachment 95619

its a special moment when even a Fox News anchor is aghast at what is unfolding.
I find it hard to imagine that a 'muslim register' will actually happen (not least because the CIA already has files on everyone) - though of course even the proposing of it is a political act and obviously stokes racism and is an attempt to win more Cunt Points with those who like this kind of idea.

 

[Orang Utan]

its a special moment when even a Fox News anchor is aghast at what is unfolding.
I find it hard to imagine that a 'muslim register' will actually happen (not least because the CIA already has files on everyone)

Does the CIA have files on everyone?

 

[DotCommunist]

Does the CIA have files on everyone?

yeah its called facebook

 

[Orang Utan]

yeah its called facebook

Not everyone has Facebook.

 

[camouflage]

Not everyone has Facebook.

doesn't matter, most of your friends and family do. tag!

 

[ska invita]

Does the CIA have files on everyone?

EVERYONE!!!
Via the NSA the US government is collecting and storing virtually every phone call, purchase, email, text message, internet search, social media communication, which is combined with health information, employment history, travel and student records, and so on.

Specifics aside I was making a rhetorical point...its impossible for us to really know exactly what the secret services know or can access if they want it (though some has been exposed by NSA whistleblowers), but we do know that especially post 9-11 US citizens are spied on on a scale unique in history...the general point being the notion that there is a lack of surveillance/information gathering in the US is a joke. The Register has one purpose and one alone, and that's to get racists fists and hearts pumping. Its a level of racism well beyond a dog whistle.

 

[DotCommunist]

post 9-11 US citizens are spied on on a scale unique in history

stasi ?

 

[belboid]

Jeff Sessions for Attorney General then. I am shocked to read that he appears to be a complete shit - Jeff Sessions - Wikipedia

 

[ska invita]

who or what even is this 'old left' anyway? apparently there's some significant movement of class struggle revolutionaries I've never heard of...

The New Left as formed in the late 60s was done so as a break from the Old Left. Those divisions between New and Old still have some meaning 50 years later I think, though goalposts may have shifted. As you'd expect there's a bunch of differences out there amongst people who might think of themselves as of 'the left', some of which are generational, some of which depend on institutions people belong and rub around in, and so on. I'd say apart from a consciousness of intersectional politics one thing a younger generation seem to have is being much more open to horizontalism in organising things. Working in groups that pull together people in their 20s/30s and people in their 60s/70s the differences often arise, and can cause a fair amount of friction IME.

stasi ?

the scale of surveillance in the US is far bigger than the stasi from what ive read - certainly in terms of raw data its on a scale unimaginable to the stasi, and thats to do with networked technology. Though theres a big difference in that the stasi could act more viciously on thought crimes/anti state behaviour, whereas in the US there are still some checks and balances. Thats my understanding of it anyway.



This seems to have good info on what the Register might look like, and paints a picture of it being a reality - not least because a simliar thing existed under W Bush - and half exists now. I take back my comment this wont happen...it looks like some kind of new Register will
Donald Trump’s proposed "Muslim registry," explained

 

[butchersapron]

The 60s new left was the new new left and what you identify as the old left was the old new left - that formed post 1917 and against the then old left. That new new left is now the old new left and the new new new left this stuff really refers to is post-thacherite liberalism. A barely left left.

 

[Santino]

The 60s new left was the new new left and what you identify as the old left was the old new left - that formed post 1917 and against the then old left. That new new left is now the old new left and the new new new left this stuff really refers to is post-thacherite liberalism. A barely left left.

Right.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Incredible. No one could describe what the 'left' are the other day when I asked nor what they have been doing to stop recent events happening but it is still possible to say what it isn't and what everyone else (progressives/liberals/fake or new left) is doing wrong? Perhaps the old/real 'left' is only an imagined thing?

ETA. Now seen eoin_k 's post on the other thread.

 

[eoin_k]

Can't we have another distinction between the (old) new new left that came out of the Communist Party after 1956 and the younger (new) new new left who came out of the student movement circa 1968? So that would make Butcher's Apron's new new new left the new new new new left.

 

[Treacle Toes]

 

[inva]

The New Left as formed in the late 60s was done so as a break from the Old Left. Those divisions between New and Old still have some meaning 50 years later I think, though goalposts may have shifted. As you'd expect there's a bunch of differences out there amongst people who might think of themselves as of 'the left', some of which are generational, some of which depend on institutions people belong and rub around in, and so on. I'd say apart from a consciousness of intersectional politics one thing a younger generation seem to have is being much more open to horizontalism in organising things. Working in groups that pull together people in their 20s/30s and people in their 60s/70s the differences often arise, and can cause a fair amount of friction IME.

well whatever the divisions from around half a century ago, Jones is clearly claiming that there exists today some section of the left that insists on a severely narrowed down version of class struggle politics to the exclusion of everything else (I'm assuming even where that other stuff is seen as part of the class struggle). Given how often I hear these claims I'm guessing it must be some major part of the left, but who are they?

Or maybe it's really just intended to provide cover for Jones' rightward trajectory.

 

[eoin_k]

Incredible. No one could describe what the 'left' are the other day when I asked nor what they have been doing to stop recent events happening but it is still possible to say what it isn't and what everyone else (progressives/liberals/fake or new left) is doing wrong? Perhaps the old/real 'left' is only an imagined thing?

I tried to reply seriously to your question on the other thread by the way.

 

[Treacle Toes]

I tried to reply seriously to your question on the other thread by the way.

The Post Trump Left thread?

If so, I'm sorry I missed it. I will have a look.

 

[butchersapron]

Can't we have another distinction between the (old) new new left that came out of the Communist Party after 1956 and the younger (new) new new left who came out of the student movement circa 1968? So that would make Butcher's Apron's new new new left the new new new new left.

Yes, that new new left - and new left review was the coming together of two previous journals that were themselves splits from the old new left - that was split between the two groups you mention - often fractiously. See E.P Thompson's relations with Perry anderson and NLR for example - and the new new new left that came from outside these journals at that point, but that later and today still run them.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

The New American Right seems fairly easy to identify:

Richard Spencer was euphoric the night Donald Trump was elected president.

"When it happened, I thought I might have been dreaming," he said.

Richard Spencer, 38, a Dallas native and a graduate of St. Mark's School of Texas prep school, now lives in Montana.

Spencer, a 38-year-old Dallas native and graduate of St. Mark's School of Texas prep school, is a key intellectual leader of the alternative right, a label he coined in 2008 to describe the radical conservative movement defined by white nationalism and a fervent resistance to multiculturalism and globalism.

In his mind, Trump "is the first step, the first stage towards identity politics for white people."

"They are a conscious repudiation of the American conservative movement," said Dan Morenoff, a 42-year-old lawyer from North Dallas and former head of the Republican Jewish Coalition chapter in North Texas. "They affirmatively reject the American ideals that conservatives have tried to conserve over the last 50 years. But I think a better description for them is barbarians. They are barbarians who would replace American culture with an ethno-national state."

The Southern Poverty Law Center labeled Spencer an "academic racist" who takes a "quasi-intellectual approach to white separatism."

He envisions a white ethno-state utopia, devoid of black people, Muslims, Jews, Asians or anyone else without a common European heritage and culture. He believes white people in America have become rootless wanderers, displaced by immigrants who are now waging a kind of proxy war against the European cultural foundation upon which the U.S. was built.

For white nationalists, Trump win a dream come true, says alt-right leader Richard Spencer | Politics | Dallas News

 

[agricola]

For white nationalists, Trump win a dream come true, says alt-right leader Richard Spencer | Politics | Dallas News

Who would have thought decades of demographically based politics in a country that already had a long history of racial problems would have led to this?

 

[Treacle Toes]

.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Who would have thought decades of demographically based politics in a country that already had a long history of racial problems would have led to this?

Hadn't looked at it in that way - the 'Trump Was Inevitable' theory.

 

[nuffsaid]

Mike Pompeo - Chief of CIA - Who are Donald Trump's reported cabinet picks?

Pompeo is a lifetime member of the National Rifle Association, which endorsed him for Congress. He is also a hardliner on abortion, keen to ban it in all instances except where the mother’s life is at risk. He has also voted against the renewal of the Violence Against Women Act. He opposed closing Guantánamo Bay, and after a 2013 visit to the prison, said of prisoners who were on hunger strike: “It looked to me like a lot of them had put on weight.”

Ouch!

 

[Dogsauce]

Jeff Sessions for Attorney General then. I am shocked to read that he appears to be a complete shit - Jeff Sessions - Wikipedia

According to that article he's had major funding from WPP group, who are based over here. They're already marked out as scumbags for backing the tories and relocating to Ireland at one point to dodge tax.

This kind of money needs to come out of politics.

 

[butchersapron]

well whatever the divisions from around half a century ago, Jones is clearly claiming that there exists today some section of the left that insists on a severely narrowed down version of class struggle politics to the exclusion of everything else (I'm assuming even where that other stuff is seen as part of the class struggle). Given how often I hear these claims I'm guessing it must be some major part of the left, but who are they?

Or maybe it's really just intended to provide cover for Jones' rightward trajectory.

Indeed. Where are these witches? Or are they of his own conjuring?

 

[chilango]

Well didn't Jones meet a bunch of Urbanites down the pub once?

 

[gosub]

EVERYONE!!!
Via the NSA the US government is collecting and storing virtually every phone call, purchase, email, text message, internet search, social media communication, which is combined with health information, employment history, travel and student records, and so on.

Specifics aside I was making a rhetorical point...its impossible for us to really know exactly what the secret services know or can access if they want it (though some has been exposed by NSA whistleblowers), but we do know that especially post 9-11 US citizens are spied on on a scale unique in history...the general point being the notion that there is a lack of surveillance/information gathering in the US is a joke. The Register has one purpose and one alone, and that's to get racists fists and hearts pumping. Its a level of racism well beyond a dog whistle.

stasi ?

I was wondering where my socks kept disappearing to

 

[J Ed]

Indeed. Where are these witches? Or are they of his own conjuring?

I also wonder who these people are. Can anyone find some for us?

 

[J Ed]

There have to be one or two about, like that one piece of shit in Left Unity who proposed a motion supporting ISIS or something, so surely someone can point us to them.